99Designs
maraich
Posts: 492
Does anyone have any experience in submitting work at the crowdsourcing site, 99designs? I've been entering competitions for book cover designs, and even though I do not use stock images, people keep reporting me for not posting my images as containing licensed photos. I fought it once, sent 99designs a link to the product I used from DAZ. They found in my favor - I think. I got two notes. One looked like an official "generic" notice that the matter had been settled in my favor. But then I got a personalized note that stated:
You have been found for submitting an image in your design that may not be properly declared.
Your design: http://99designs.com.au/book-cover-…s/33230530
may contain some third-party images that are not appropriately declared.
Please remember to declare all stock images used each time you upload your entries. The CH must be able to clearly see the
image's license info, and whether or not any images require purchase. http://99designs.com/help/stockpolicy
So that makes it sound like I'm getting a slap on the wrist this time, but in the future I'd best sin no more. Ugh. So now I entered a different competition, and this time I did a render that used objects from Baroque Grandeur, The Library, Dream Home Nook, and a few other things. No stock images, but I got notified that I've been reported again. I pulled the image so I wouldn't get in trouble and have to try to explain myself again. Then resubmitted it, putting down that I DID use stock images and then I included the links to the products here at DAZ. I'm pissed I have to do this, though, since it leaves the author thinking that they may have to purchase additional rights to use stock images that don't exist.
I can't be the only person who has run into this. I've only been entering these competitions for about a month now, and I'm sure others have done this sort of work for a much longer time. How do you post rendered images without running into licensing issues?
I guess I should be flattered that someone actually thinks my image looks like a photograph, but it's a headache anyway.
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Comments
um, images you have rendered are not 'stock images' unless you're releasing your artwork as such.
Looks to me like they do not comprehend that one can render images from 3D objects ...
Possibly some generic statement that the entire image is a pure fabrication created using a 3D rendering program which everyone is licensed to use for creating such images ... with a link to the site's end user agreement.
disclaimer: I am not a lawyer and this is not legal advice
Have read other threads and something like the above works for some people on some sites. Some sites in which one is making money off of the work, also required proof of purchase for each and every item, etc etc.
I'm giving the people reporting the image the benefit of the doubt, and assuming that they genuinely think that I've used a stock photo and failed to mark it as such. It's also entirely possible, though, that since the system is anonymous that one of my fellow competitors (all of whom are using stock images), reported me as a means of cutting back on the competition.
Unfortunately, there is nothing in the system that allows you to publicly elaborate on how you created your image. You can tell the author, but most of them don't do this kind of work (hence their need to solicit others to make covers for them), and don't understand what a stock image is, what clip art is, what a render is, and what the difference between them is.
I did send e-mail to 99designs asking them how I should handle this sort of thing in the future. They've been in the business of crowdsourcing graphic works for a number of years, they have to have some idea that a good number of the people who submit designs utilize software like DS and Poser. Hopefully, I'll get a reply from someone more coherent than the one who send me the other notice. It may be that I'll have to simply challenge every single claim against me and hope that I don't get banned.
Of course, if I don't win a contest in the next couple of weeks, it may be a moot point. Not a lot of reason to continue entering contests, spending dozens of hours on a project and never winning. I have one sitting as a finalist right now, and I actually drew the image as a vector graphic in PS, so I don't think I need to worry about getting reported for that one (but who knows). Maybe this will be my first sale and I'll go on to great things. )
Your first link is broken btw. If you don't mind sharing, what render engine are you using that people it's photo quality? I'd think most people would be able to tell the difference. I've seen a lot of gorgeous renders, but even those still have that 'difference' that tells you it's not a photo.
Can't you just use the same declaration section and say it's created via rendered 3D content purchased through whatever site?
Where it asks for licensed elements, use the name and link for the product you bought.
Would be easier to give you methods of filling the form out if we knew what was in the form (I don't have an account there at all so I can't see any sort of submit button to look).
I didn't intend for anyone to go to that link, I was merely including the text from the e-mail I got so you could see what was said.
I agree with you. I don't think my image looks even remotely like a photo. It was just the only reason I could come with for someone to claim it was a stock image. I'm just using DS4.6 (no Reality) and then doing some postwork in Photoshop (adding candle glows and stuff).
I'm attaching the image (minus the author and title) so you can see it. It's fairly obvious it's not a photo. Maybe someone just needs their eyesight checked. )
They use a menu system, so you have to choose either stock image or clip art as a choice. What I ended up doing is choosing stock image, and doing as you mentioned, including the links for the products here at DAZ. I told the author in a note what was going on and that they have no fear of having to fork out extra money to pay for licensing. They gave my image a ranking of five stars, so I'm in the running.
On a happy note, the image that I drew using vectors won! So, I guess I'll keep working at this.
I don't know what the different implications are in this context for claiming Stock Image instead of Clip Art, but I've sometimes described 3D renders of purchased content as being somewhat like using 3D clip art. People seem to "get it" more easily when I do that, and there's lots of royalty-free clip art out there, so maybe authors would understand the licensing terms better. On the other hand, if what you're trying to fend off are naive challenges by people who think you've used a stock photo, maybe claiming "stock photo" is the way to go.
I agree that your image couldn't pass for a photo here or anywhere that people are used to 3D renders, but it looks more like a photo than a painting or drawing, especially at this resolution. That could be the source of the confusion.
Best of all would be if the site admins would add a category for 3D renders, of course.... ;)
Good luck with this venture!
That is actually an excellent idea. I will see if there is a way for me to send that to them as a suggestion.
And thank you!
This was a very interesting thread. On the positive side, it is good a site is being careful. On the negative side, a lot of people out there still don't have a clue about rendered art. Where I live there is a yearly contest for people over 65. It is not local but includes a few adjoining states. Last year I wanted to enter but couldn't because they had no category for computer generated images. The local people submitted a proposal to the main corporate entity to do that. It wasn't done. It is hard for us to imagine that this type of ignorance exists, but it does. I think you are running into the same issue. Since photos can be manipulated, everything is a photo or a vector piece. If someone painted a book cover in a painting program, they might recognize that.
There is a group called hands on MO or something similar. I, again, thought I might join because joining has some local benefits. Again, there was no category where my work fit. The computer category was all vector or manipulated photos. I sent an email describing what I do. It was never answered. We forget that while we think what we do is mainstream, it isn't in many parts of the country.
Congrats on your vector image winning.
Contact the site. Provide them with a copy the DAZ EULA and the EULA's from any other brokerage if you are using items from more than one brokerage.
Compile a list of scene elements used and provide it along with a statement to the effect that you can provide proof of purchase of any and all elements used. In such a case as this, do not use freebies. If you created any items yourself, provide a statement that you can provide proof of your work. Your working files are your proof in this case.
Avoid freebies (items you pick up from Rendo free stuff not items you get free from DAZ or another site that you actually have to go through the whole checkout process) because because it's harder to prove permission of use.
Thank you both. batesyboy, you're right, it's surprising how few people are aware of what 3D rendered art is. I've been doing this since for ten or more years now (still a newbie compared to many folks out there) and simply was not aware that something I take for granted is still on the "fringe".
icprncss, good points. I've never been much on using freebies anyway, not even in my for fun work (which most of it is). I have a couple of items that I use occasionally, which I always give credit for, but I would never use them in a product intended for commercial use. For that reason alone I appreciate that DAZ gives freebies that you "buy" and are part of your purchase history. It makes it much easier to keep track of things.
I have a long-standing feature request with DAZ3D to automatically track items used in a scene and include the list in the EXIF data of a JPEG render. I've also requested that metadata be enhanced to include EULA data, specifically restrictions about use in commercial renders, with tools in DS to allow us to filter content in the Smart Content pane by license restriction. It would be some work for DAZ3D to implement these features, so if others would find them useful, it would be a good idea to submit similar requests. Now that the market for indie illustration is opening up, I would think these sorts of features would be helpful to more and more users, but until DAZ3D hears that from users, they're not going to be able to justify putting development resources in place (including tools to make it easier to create metadata for non-DAZ3D products).