Why are there so little animations for sell on the site?
thchacksuite
Posts: 32
I'm making a turn based rpg using flash/php/mysql and as I'm not good at making animations for characters I've been looking for a long time to find animations for genesis 2, like shooting arrows with a bow, casting magic spells etc. But browsing through the site (and the net) I can only find a handful of vendors that offer animations. I'm wondering why, because there are loads of fantasy clothes, props etc. for daz3d so why are there so little (fantasy) animations available?
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because they are easy to make
so no one would buy them
because they are easy to make
so no one would buy them
To be honest, I haven't really tried to even make one, but I've seen loads of crap animations made with daz3d(youtube) where the character is walking and it looks as if it got shot several times. Not even close to realism. But let's say you're right, then I don't understand why there are so many static poses for characters on the site, these are easier to make for sure.
because they are easy to make
so no one would buy them
I have to take exception to this statement.
Yes, animated poses are easy to make. However, they are very difficult to make well.
We use motion capture to create our animated poses, so that gives us the benefit of having the performance of a human actor mapped onto the character. No motion capture data, regardless of the capture system, ever comes in clean and has to be cleaned to correct for things like footsliding, pokethrough, lost data due to marker occlusion, and so forth. Once we have the data cleaned, we map that onto the characters - and since each character has a different skeleton, we can't just release a single animated pose file that works across all characters. That's more work to create and optimize a pose for each character.
Our Swordplay set involved months of work after the capture session because we wanted to make sure that the swordfight would work across three characters - M4, V4, and Genesis - and we had to set all of the animations up so that swords and shields would touch realistically regardless whether you were matching V4 vs Genesis or M4.
We also take pride in the fact that we have very high standards for the animated pose files we release on Daz. We want our end users to be able to drag and drop a pose file or aniBlock and that 99% of the animation work or more is done at that point for the character. End users still have to animate expressions, finger poses, etc.
We do have Fantasy-themed mocap in the pipeline, and we are focusing our support for Genesis and Genesis 2. Now, Genesis and Genesis 2 figures have very similar skeletons, so you can use Genesis poses for Genesis 2 figures and you will notice slight differences - but that's acceptable for most people.
you prob watched my youtube videos . . . . and Bigh's! ;-P
no they are not easy
gofigure has some too as well as the above vendor
most users of Daz studio do still art renders so that is the market that is catered for sadly
I myself freely admit to bad animation, my anis just silly stuff to amuse mostly but the really pro ones often use mocap such as found on Truebones, Mixamo etc sites and actual mocap software and hardware like Brekel if you want a free one to use with kinect,
You may want to look at the IClone 3DExchange product that allows you to import DAZ chartacters and easily apply iClone pre-fab animations. There are lots of them, There is even "game" and loopable motions and the lower poly figures export great for games.
iClone is good but not the cheapest answer if you are wanting only to use Daz studio.
and you in fact need this http://www.daz3d.com/iclone5-facial-pipeline-power-bundle
the other only is the importer for iClone
I use it and for animation recomend it but would have to say doing your animation and rendering in iClone rather than Daz studio the best and cheapest approach there
you will need iC5pro and 3dx5 pro there are sales both on their Reallusion site and sometimes in Daz store which on sells it
you need the even dearer pipeline version of 3dx5 otherwise and studio terribly slow for rendering animation
Ouch, that is a bit too much money for me. Guess I'll try my best to make some animations with the available tools in daz3d. Thanks a lot for the replies, much appreciated!
Well, it might not be what you are looking for but here is a shop with hundreds of poser / daz (in PZ3 and BVH format) motions:
http://www.es3d.com/index2.html
for a long time I have not bought there (because I already have all the motions bought them) ... Then you can send an email to them and see if they are still active.
then
you can use it to convert bvh motions for their genesis 2:
http://www.ikinema.com/webanimate/#.UyyEBIW26Mg
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=NpcnoXNURhE&utm_source=IKinema+Newsletter&utm_campaign=3f9d77017d-WA+ACP+Press+Release&utm_medium=email&utm_term=0_c061b4ec47-3f9d77017d-338618769&ct=t(WA_press_release)&mc_cid=3f9d77017d&mc_eid=b1424163e7
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=iNCicjwuAaU&utm_source=IKinema+Newsletter&utm_campaign=3f9d77017d-WA+ACP+Press+Release&utm_medium=email&utm_term=0_c061b4ec47-3f9d77017d-338618769&ct=t(WA_press_release)&mc_cid=3f9d77017d&mc_eid=b1424163e7
I have to take exception to this statement.
Yes, animated poses are easy to make. However, they are very difficult to make well. ...
I agree. I create short animations and rely on mocaps pretty much. Over the years I've collected quite a few, and learned which suppliers I prefer. PoserMocap is one, Eclipse Studios is another.
Some friends are making a feature length CGI movie and are planning on their own mocap studio, using the soon to be released new Kinect camera models. They have high hopes for it, based on what they've seen so far, and using Nevronmotion with Lightwave.
Some day I may try my hand at mocap, but it seems like a LOT of work. As long as the prices stay reasonable, I'll use purchased mocaps.
Because it's not easy to make animation in DS. No motion layers and think about the rendering time.
A better way is:
Check the motion your want from MMD's world, where every moton data is free. And I'm sure they have the motion data you need.
Then, use free tool (Live Animation for example) convert them into bvh for DAZ studio.
everything is easy to make if you learned how to do it
but not everybody wants to learn everything
look at it this way - you can be the doer or the payer
you can have fun both ways
all up to you
I googled what you said about it:
MMD’s world
and I ended up coming up this video:
(Dazzling World)
http://www.nicovideo.jp/watch/sm18574720
I do not understand anything that is sung there (I only speak Portuguese in Brazil)
But ... I'm falling in passion for this video ... For the sympathy of character!
This doll melted my heart ... And I do not even know what she's saying ...
Correct. I am not a modeller because it doesn't interest me, plus there is a wide variety of high quality models available at reasonable prices. Thankfully, the same applies to mocaps. As a creator of short animations, I want to spend my time with stories, setting up scenes, sound FX, music, etc. I just want to drive the car, not build it.
(But of course I'm grateful that some people DO want to create great models and mocaps, and sell them at reasonable prices.)
Correct. I am not a modeller because it doesn't interest me, plus there is a wide variety of high quality models available at reasonable prices. Thankfully, the same applies to mocaps. As a creator of short animations, I want to spend my time with stories, setting up scenes, sound FX, music, etc. I just want to drive the car, not build it.
(But of course I'm grateful that some people DO want to create great models and mocaps, and sell them at reasonable prices.)
I dont know about animated "poses", because to me that means a pose is tweened to another rather than true motion dynamics (acceleration and deceleration) where are represented. It can be done that was but really tweens just bridge the gap between the established pose keyframe node translations and do not necessarily demonstrate r/l feasible action, especially if collision is not accounted for. I concur that to make natural motion its helpful to have some tool to adjust acceleration and translation to direct "in concert" and across key-frames. Like a itemized node and graphed curve parameter adjustment based timeline, or a mocap system. I really like Poser's animation system. Easy to make complex cyclical effects like quadruped walk cycles. I am not a fan of the ani-block approach although I have used it. It could improve with the "Graph Editor" however the plug-in for DS Aniblock2 seems to always escape my install (never loads/find it in menu) and I turn to other tools before wasting time to get it working.
Another think - there is a tool called BV hacker and also with UUWP you can broadly replace node parameters across keyframes ala cut and paste. Its handy for imposing your necessary limitations a non-conformed BHV and assigning rig bones to groups.
o
Wendy - Your work always leaves me ROFL! You seem to aim to amuse and it certainly does.
Steve K
Not to derail the thread but you may be interested in the free versions of iclone 4 and 3dXchange 4 given in the current issue of 3D Artist magazine.
These are older versions which cannot import DAZ characters but the program is great for constructing quick animation scenarios even if you intend to use Carrara or other programs for final work.
I love DAZ software but applying excellent motions to characters is easy and a lot of fun in iclone. Iclone is sold by DAZ and version 6 is on its way. With each release the program takes leaps forward but getting hold of an older version for free might be worthwhile.
I hope this is helpful.
Edit: I also meant to add that many users of the iclone forum are heavily into film making rather than creating their own props, etc. They too will readily use assets created by others.
Yup, thanks, I'll look for the magazine (or maybe order it online). It may be a while before I get into it, I've got a 48 Hour Film contest coming up and I'm in the process of test rendering all this stuff I bought in the last six months of sales.
Am I missing other ways this would fit into a Carrara 8 Pro/Gen4 characters animation project? BVH export to Carrara?
Steve K.
Hi Steve K
Excuse, please, that my brain is half-dead at the moment! But I'll try to give a useful answer. When I spoke about using Carrara for final work I wasn't talking about a flow between the programs. I really meant that iclone would be another string to your bow, as it were. You could use it for pre-viz.
With iclone you can quickly add effects to a scene such as a downpour with raindrops bouncing on the ground and trees blowing or mist or fire, etc. All this is low-poly. With 3dXchange 4 you can import OBJ and sketchup files. So you could build lots of nice sets for free with sketchup buildings or objects exported from Carrara just to see your ideas being realized. You could create trial runs of your ideas and try out camera views and tracks quite rapidly. It would be a step above storyboarding if you would intend to use Carrara for your best work. And it's a fun program to use.
A lot of stuff created in iclone 4 is like output I've seen from the Sims. (mine is). But where there is an absorbing story being told, the visual quality becomes less significant - to me anyway. I only played a few games in my time but I got into 3d because of cut-scenes in the early Tomb-Raider games! And I first bought iclone to build worlds like that! There are users of iclone who create wonderful visuals and the early figures aren't at all bad once animated life has been put into them.
I bought iclone4 just prior to the launch of version five and used version five mostly. I can't remember whether Poser and V4 M4 characters can be imported to iclone 4. But if the program can be obtained for free it is nice to get hold of and see some of the things it does well. If you bought CloneCloth for the early characters you could design a range of costumes to make characters from any time-period. You get a template of the clothes like a UV map which you paint on and make regions invisible etc. Again, possibly useful for pre-viz or to create characters with a charm of their own.
To convert BVH files for export from iclone needs the Pipeline version of 3dXchange5 (and iclone 5?). Pipeline is too expensive for me and many third party assets can only be exported if a licence has been paid for. So, for me, iclone is an animation kit which I can put things into but that's where they stay.
I think iClone is a bit expensive as far as exporting their animations is concerned, but I have bought DXchange5 Pro anyway and I find it invaluable. I can transfer FBX and BVH animations back and forth between applications and iClone with no problem. And DXchange5 can do much more than that. You can create facial animation profiles. You can re-target bones between rigging profiles. You can import Genesis into iClone automatically. You can export all physics animations (including physics toolbox if you have purchased the export license) from iClone to other apps.
What kills me though is that, usually, you have to pay iClone's pre-set animations and props three times over just for the export licenses.
For what its worth, Renderosity's policy is that the products they sell on their store are all 3d game publishable w/o additional license fees unless otherwise stated in the product EULA. So most animations and poses purchased there are good to go into 3d games. There are some really good animal animations there.
OK, thanks. I'm pretty committed to Carrara and Gen 4, including an embarrassingly large collection of Poser format content. But I still may try the magazine version of iClone since the price is attractive ;-) I stopped by Barnes & Noble, but they still have the previous issue of 3D Artist, so I'll keep an eye out for the newer issue (they apparently ship the copies from the UK by sailing ships, which have to wait for favorable wind and tide).
I do use animations from "non-compatible" programs in my Carrara animations, e.g. something on a TV or similar. This gets done in the video editing so compatibility is not needed. One example is "Groboto", which is fun to play with and deeper than you think at first - here's a five minute demo of the Groboto process:
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Wp3-98ZGIas
You can also use webanimate to clean up some of the free mocap out there.
Only partly for free. If you want to use ACP, their latest star cleaning feature, you have to be a professional member and pay $180 a year.
Only partly for free. If you want to use ACP, their latest star cleaning feature, you have to be a professional member and pay $180 a year.
But since this will save you a lot of time working, so worth the investment.
I have the professional webanimate annual plan ... I'm just waiting for the offline version, which was to be released in March (this month now)
Ikinema Pro...$180 per year? There is also the monthly plan of $20. You won't get to use the offline version but you will have all the Pro features. I will be starting after the 5th.
@Steve K
The Groboto software looks brilliant. It's strange how within a few years so much creative power has come to be within everyone's reach. I remember seeing the Quantel Paintbox on television and learning that it cost a million pounds. Now even free paint packages do as much.
Having so much software to choose from tends to make us (or me at least) insatiable. In the last couple of years I stretched my finances and bought everything I thought would do me. The program I've used least is Poser 9 - even though it could be everything I need except a modelling application and I like it very much each time I go to it. Then there is 3D Coat which I bought at Christmas at a sale price - so far I haven't even begun with it. (But I will)
I've just looked at some amazing animations using early DAZ and Poser assets - they are very hard to improve on when used well.
The 48 animation contest sounds really tough - as the name suggests, do you create a full animation from scratch over a couple of days? Without any real sleep?
Yes, its quite a challenge, but the adrenalin really gets pumping. You get a random genre (comedy, film noir, horror, etc., about 15 total) on Friday evening, plus a character (name and occupation), a prop and a line of dialogue. 48 hours later you turn in a 4 to 7 minute video. The saying is "If you're sleeping, you're not doing it right."
I do use pre-setup scenes (city scapes, buildings, landscapes) since the live action teams (everybody else in Houston, about 60 teams total) have the real world available, seems fair. Its still a struggle to get the story thought out (for the genre drawn), then get the shots all set up with clothing, props, mocaps, camera angles, lighting, etc. Then render, edit the video, add the sound effects and music, mix the video and race to the dropoff (they have a count down the last 15 seconds). Then drink. :-P
More here, including the winning Houston entry from last year, "Analog" (live action)(you can find a lot of 48 Hour films on Youtube):
http://www.48hourfilm.com/en/houston/
Thanks for the info and the link.
It's quite a commitment, financial and in terms of effort. It strikes me that a drama group could do green-screen live action while animators could build sets. On second thoughts it would be massively time-consuming. But the drink session with the drama group could be nice afterwards!
Which reminds me, I've some wine left from a bottle I opened yesterday.....
As I mentioned, some of these teams are very talented. Dozens of people, with a lot of specialized skills. But yes, it is fun to get together at the showings and just listen to their experiences. I remember asking one of the best directors, "Where did you get an ambulance?" He said, "Well, they saw us shooting and asked, 'Need an ambulance?' " So a little script change ...
You can try the Daz-friendly BVH release of the Carnegie-Mellon Graphics Lab Motion Capture Database at https://sites.google.com/a/cgspeed.com/cgspeed/motion-capture/daz-friendly-release
There are a few hundred motions and they are free to use.