Surfaces Question

MJ007

Is there a way to determine what template a surface is using? In the surfaces tab, I can see what texture it is using, but I want to know the specific template it is using.

I want to create a unique texture for a surface that is not using a texture map. But without knowing what template it is using, I don't know how i can.

For example, in City Streets, I want to give the glass window for Java Joes a different texture. However, the "glass" (which is made up of 2 mat zones; Upper and Lower) is simply a diffuse setting and no actual texture map.

How can i modify it without knowing how to create the new map?

Any ideas?

-MJ

patience55

MJ007 said:

Is there a way to determine what template a surface is using? In the surfaces tab, I can see what texture it is using, but I want to know the specific template it is using.

I want to create a unique texture for a surface that is not using a texture map. But without knowing what template it is using, I don't know how i can.

For example, in City Streets, I want to give the glass window for Java Joes a different texture. However, the "glass" (which is made up of 2 mat zones; Upper and Lower) is simply a diffuse setting and no actual texture map.

How can i modify it without knowing how to create the new map?

Any ideas?

-MJ

You can export out an .obj file of most anything in D/S ... then import it into another program such as Hexagon, Uvmapper, or an excellent discovery mentioned by Chohole if I recall correctly, UV-Viewer. Select the shading domain you want to see and save out a template to use in your image editor. If using UV-Viewer note that you can save the templates out in squares to a variety of sizes. AFAIK the modelers all create templates as squares.

Jaderail

MJ007 said:

Is there a way to determine what template a surface is using? In the surfaces tab, I can see what texture it is using, but I want to know the specific template it is using.

I want to create a unique texture for a surface that is not using a texture map. But without knowing what template it is using, I don't know how i can.

For example, in City Streets, I want to give the glass window for Java Joes a different texture. However, the "glass" (which is made up of 2 mat zones; Upper and Lower) is simply a diffuse setting and no actual texture map.

How can i modify it without knowing how to create the new map?

Any ideas?

-MJ

If that one surface has a Diffuse channel then just Plug a image file in it. That will show you how the texture (image you used) was stretched or squashed. You can then try a different shape map. Most will work as long as the image file(s) used are about the same shape of the item. Remember to include a Trans map as well if needed. And some will even needed flipped backwards to render properly.

Fisty

Select the material zone in question with the surface selection tool, then go to the camera view pull down and change it to UV View.
(it probably won't help telling the difference between V6 or Girl6 UVs in G2, they look too similar.. in that case look at the surface tab for where it says UV Set.. and you can tell which of the like 8 maps the humans use with the UV View trick.)

MJ007

Jaderail said:

If that one surface has a Diffuse channel then just Plug a image file in it. That will show you how the texture (image you used) was stretched or squashed. You can then try a different shape map. Most will work as long as the image file(s) used are about the same shape of the item. Remember to include a Trans map as well if needed. And some will even needed flipped backwards to render properly.

I tried just placing a random image and it drops it in, but it doesnt follow any rhyme or reason. For example, I thought it would either:
- center the image in the area
- use one of the corners as a point of reference and just fill from there

And it did neither. It basically took an area in the middle of the image and applied it to the surface.

So my guess is that the mat zone is somehow defined to be an area somewhere in the middle of an actual image template, but without that template, it would be complete guesswork as determining where that actual area for that zone is.

Hence me requiring the specific template for that surface.

-MJ

Fisty

You haven't tried the UV View trick have you.. it will show you exactly where that material zone is on the template.. disregard if you're using Poser.. if you're using poser grab a free copy of uv mapped classic, open the item's .obj file in it and go to Edit->Select (not "select by")->By Material and choose the matzone you're wondering about, it will highlight it in red for you.

Edit - if you're wondering about a dson imported item in Poser you're kind of out of luck if you don't have a copy of DS installed to get the obj file since uv mapper can't open the duf files.

mjc1016

MJ007 said:

Jaderail said:

If that one surface has a Diffuse channel then just Plug a image file in it. That will show you how the texture (image you used) was stretched or squashed. You can then try a different shape map. Most will work as long as the image file(s) used are about the same shape of the item. Remember to include a Trans map as well if needed. And some will even needed flipped backwards to render properly.

I tried just placing a random image and it drops it in, but it doesnt follow any rhyme or reason. For example, I thought it would either:
- center the image in the area
- use one of the corners as a point of reference and just fill from there

And it did neither. It basically took an area in the middle of the image and applied it to the surface.

So my guess is that the mat zone is somehow defined to be an area somewhere in the middle of an actual image template, but without that template, it would be complete guesswork as determining where that actual area for that zone is.

Hence me requiring the specific template for that surface.

-MJ

That sounds more like the image isn't at an appropriate scale. If the 'template' is 1024 x 1024 and that encompasses an entire wall and you drop a 'poster' on it, that is 1024 x 1024...but the area for the 'poster' is only 150 x 350., a 150 x 300 'chunk will be displayed, as opposed to the whole thing.

Basically, that means a specific material zone doesn't have to have a 'template'...it can be spread over the whole thing.

If you are talking about Predatron's City Streets, have you grabbed the template files? They are on the store page, under Resource Files.

MJ007

Fisty said:

You haven't tried the UV View trick have you.. it will show you exactly where that material zone is on the template.. disregard if you're using Poser.. if you're using poser grab a free copy of uv mapped classic, open the item's .obj file in it and go to Edit->Select (not "select by")->By Material and choose the matzone you're wondering about, it will highlight it in red for you.

Edit - if you're wondering about a dson imported item in Poser you're kind of out of luck if you don't have a copy of DS installed to get the obj file since uv mapper can't open the duf files.

No Fisty,

No. Not at my workstation at the moment. Im going to try your method next.

-MJ

MJ007

mjc1016 said:

That sounds more like the image isn't at an appropriate scale. If the 'template' is 1024 x 1024 and that encompasses an entire wall and you drop a 'poster' on it, that is 1024 x 1024...but the area for the 'poster' is only 150 x 350., a 150 x 300 'chunk will be displayed, as opposed to the whole thing.

Basically, that means a specific material zone doesn't have to have a 'template'...it can be spread over the whole thing.

If you are talking about Predatron's City Streets, have you grabbed the template files? They are on the store page, under Resource Files.

Yes, I have the template files, but I have no idea which file the area in question is using. Thats my whole issue.

-MJ

mjc1016

MJ007 said:

mjc1016 said:

That sounds more like the image isn't at an appropriate scale. If the 'template' is 1024 x 1024 and that encompasses an entire wall and you drop a 'poster' on it, that is 1024 x 1024...but the area for the 'poster' is only 150 x 350., a 150 x 300 'chunk will be displayed, as opposed to the whole thing.

Basically, that means a specific material zone doesn't have to have a 'template'...it can be spread over the whole thing.

If you are talking about Predatron's City Streets, have you grabbed the template files? They are on the store page, under Resource Files.

Yes, I have the template files, but I have no idea which file the area in question is using. Thats my whole issue.

-MJ

Load them as a texture map...

Fisty

mjc1016 said:

Load them as a texture map...

That's only going to help if the template has the islands colored differently.. you could do so with a 2D program, just put a different color wash over each piece so you can tell.

mjc1016

Fisty said:

mjc1016 said:

Load them as a texture map...

That's only going to help if the template has the islands colored differently.. you could do so with a 2D program, just put a different color wash over each piece so you can tell.

I've done it with black and white ones...but it is a lot harder than colored ones. The trick is to look for a distinctive feature and plot out from there...or open them in an image editor and add 'registration marks'. (I usually use series of dots.)

Gone

For city streets, the java joe window signage is on the surface RMGLetteriing (sic). There are 2 maps - diffuse and opacity - that you will find in runtime/textures/Predatron3DA/CS named tsa-glassletters.jpg and tsa-glassletters-tran.jpg.

These are 768x768 maps and they also contain the addresses for both buildings. The java joe part is at the bottom of the map. Just edit the bottom of the maps and replace these files on the surface and your good to go.

The java joe sign above the window is surface StoreSign and uses the map tsa-storesign01.jpg.

MJ007

Gone said:

For city streets, the java joe window signage is on the surface RMGLetteriing (sic). There are 2 maps - diffuse and opacity - that you will find in runtime/textures/Predatron3DA/CS named tsa-glassletters.jpg and tsa-glassletters-tran.jpg.

These are 768x768 maps and they also contain the addresses for both buildings. The java joe part is at the bottom of the map. Just edit the bottom of the maps and replace these files on the surface and your good to go.

The java joe sign above the window is surface StoreSign and uses the map tsa-storesign01.jpg.

This is for the "Java Joe's" sign on the window only; Not the window itself.

The window is comprised of 2 mat zones RightFrontWindowUp & RightFrontWindowLow. I can make the Java Joes sign a 0% Opacity and then thats outta the way no problem. Now, my issue is modifying the remaining window.

-MJ

MJ007

Ok. Tried the UV Trick... kinda cool. This works... sorta. It shows me the UV for the selected item, but it doesnt show me what file this surface is contained in. So im still stuck with trying to figure out what template to use for the this zone.

-MJ

Gone

Are you saying this ISN'T what you want to do?

MJ007

Not exactly. With the window, I want to do something more like this... with the windows being completely Black.

-MJ

Xenomorphine

On a slight tangent, in all the tutorials for the surface tab I've looked at, this has never been clarified:

The settings for skin/plastic/metal/glossy are self-explanatory, but under what circumstances would it be recommended to dictate a surface should be classed as 'matte'? Is matte meant to be used for rubber, fabric or something else?

MJ007

Xenomorphine said:

On a slight tangent, in all the tutorials for the surface tab I've looked at, this has never been clarified:

The settings for skin/plastic/metal/glossy are self-explanatory, but under what circumstances would it be recommended to dictate a surface should be classed as 'matte'? Is matte meant to be used for rubber, fabric or something else?

I typically use "Matte" on any type of non-reflective surface... like skin, brick, dirt, etc.

-MJ

Gone

You mean like this?

@ Xenomorphine That setting is called "Lighting Model" and that is what it modifies. Light reacts differently depending on the type of surface so you should set the lighting model to match the type of surface. Things that have low reflectivity like brick, ground,, trees, etc. should be set as matte.

This property is just a quick shorthand set up in the DAZ default shader. If you switch to a more advanced shader - like uber - then you won't see this option because the properties that are changed by this are exposed and can be tweaked directly to your liking.

MJ007

Again, close. I want the title to appear in the middle of the window, because I am not using the awning at all. From your image it appears you still have the lettering in the lower half of the window.

After reviewing the textures and the UV file, I think Ive found the template the window is using. So doing what i need to do shouldnt be that difficult anymore. Off to test...

-MJ

Xenomorphine

Thanks for the above advice!

MJ007

With some suggestions from all you guys, I was able to figure it out. This is just test, but I now know EXACTLY what I need to do now to get the desired result.

Thanks again everyone!

-MJ

Gone

So, I guess these are all superfluous.

No sense letting them go to waste. :-)

Glad you got it sorted.