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Getting my ducks in a row

TangoAlphaTangoAlpha Posts: 4,584
edited December 1969 in Carrara Discussion

So I've started thinking about my next render project (don't worry, the attached image is not "it", it's just visual thinking out loud!) Anyway, I wanted to do something that involved ducks on water.

Have ducks... check
Have water... check

Just putting the ducks on the water clearly isn't going to hack it - they need to interact in some way: splashes, ripples and so forth. The two ducks I've placed in the foreground in particular need a V shaped "bow wave" to show that they're swimming (they may end up with a stream of ducklings in tow, since it's that time of year!)

Anyhow, I haven't worked with water before, so I'd love to hear your thoughts on ways to go about it. :)

I'm thinking possibly displacement maps for the waves... There was a thread a little while ago about displacement brushes, I think? I'll have to look it out.

Ta :)

DuckTest.jpg
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Comments

  • DartanbeckDartanbeck Posts: 21,326
    edited December 1969

    My initial thoughts, before finishing reading your post, was this: Terrain Tools Plugin for Carrara, by Digital Carvers Guild which will add abilities to add effects regarding the even of intersecting objects. I know... I word it goofy. Check the link and get a much better explanation ;)

    Sure... The displacement idea might work just fine, but I doubt that you would have to even go that far. All it would really take to bulge the water where each duck is would be a simple shape wearing that water shader. I've tried this before at it works great, although it won't give you a frothy wake. There used to be a post around somewhere (can't find it) how one of our members uses Carrara fire to make a wake effect. I've tried that once too, and it works, and is fun to experiment with. However, it was this play time that led me to finding and wanting the Terrain Tools by DCG. All DCG plugins are of very high quality, and add immense power to your user experience... truly. But as always, there are ways to do things in Carrara without spending an extra dime, if you think hard enough on it - but more importantly, like your really nice render above, you really have to try - something I'm not worried about, with you! ;)

    Practice, practice, practice... right?

  • DUDUDUDU Posts: 1,945
    edited December 1969

    You would have easier to make your brush yourself, some “V” white on black in .png…
    If it was an animation, I would tell you my trick…
    OK, I say it: I use a plan “soft body” and I move an invisible tube in the place of duck (or boat), I obtain the waves of displacement thus.
    If you want, I can look for a picture...

  • wetcircuitwetcircuit Posts: 0
    edited December 1969

    DUDU_00001 said:
    You would have easier to make your brush yourself, some “V” white on black in .png…
    If it was an animation, I would tell you my trick…
    OK, I say it: I use a plan “soft body” and I move an invisible tube in the place of duck (or boat), I obtain the waves of displacement thus.
    If you want, I can look for a picture...

    TUTORIAL! TUTORIAL! :cheese:
  • DUDUDUDU Posts: 1,945
    edited December 1969

    It is rather easy.
    You places a rigid plan just in lower part of an other plan “soft body” modifier and you attach it on all the edges of the rigid plan.
    You move an object through and you have the result as on the video:
    https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ROt9VqqMqwY&feature=em-upload_owner

  • TangoAlphaTangoAlpha Posts: 4,584
    edited December 1969

    Thank's for the link Dartan - not sure I can afford it this month - just blew the whole month's budget on Stephanie 6 and a bunch of the PC-extra-discount goodies. I think I'll give Dudu's idea a go though.

    You probably recognised the scene I used for the mockup. ;-) It does need softening though - reeds & rushes along the banks, maybe some rocks, and that little landing stage I've been working on. & even though you can't see them, the trees are adding to the reflections in the water. :)

  • Songbird ReMixSongbird ReMix Posts: 289
    edited May 2014

    You should check-out Nerd3D's Splash Tool and Swamp set. I've used the splash tool to create the splashes on the water surface stimulating a take-off and landing. It does some nice ripples too. His swamp set has some of the most believable Poser water I've seen-- in fact it rivals renders done in Vue imo. I've also transplanted his "Waves on the Beach" skydome textures on the swamp skydome and created some decent estuary looking renders.

    Post edited by Songbird ReMix on
  • DartanbeckDartanbeck Posts: 21,326
    edited May 2014

    Ken Gilliland said:
    You should check-out Nerd3D's Splash Tool and Swamp set. I've used the splash tool to create the splashes on the water surface stimulating a take-off and landing. It does some nice ripples too. His swamp set has some of the most believable Poser water I've seen-- in fact it rivals renders done in Vue imo. I've also transplanted his "Waves on the Beach" skydome textures on the swamp skydome and created some decent estuary looking renders.Whoa... Ken Gilliland!
    How are you, Sir?!!!
    Agreed, by the way. I love all of those Nerd 3D effects kits, and since they were designed for use in Poser, they, of course, work beautifully in Carrara.

    Nerd 3D also gives plenty of image maps for bump, transparency, etc., that make working out realism in Carrara a quick, but fascinatingly interesting exploration in where you can use these maps in the shader system. I had to add that last bit because although I achieved a really sweet-looking waterfall with his waterfall tool in his Thunder River kit (comes with a link to download Fit pose files for the waterfall tool, and also includes animation movement poses for the river water!) but spent days an days, maybe even weeks playing with different effects I could get combining various maps together in various shader channels... was very fun, and an educational experience for myself, delving deeper into using image maps for transparency, reflections, highlights and shininess, alpha... all of it. I just bought the swamp kit recently, but have yet to play with it... what's wrong with me?

    Anyways, that's not what I came here to talk about, although I did upload an image of one of my Thunder River scenes that I made for production. This was a test render that I kept, but I am not using this scene, but still have it saved. ;)

    Softening the Primary Terrain River Cutout
    In Woodlands, open up the "Woodland Terrain Base" group and double-click the Primary Terrain, taking you into the terrain editor. Select the "Terrace Filter" from the group of generators and filters and deselect it, which will shut it off. Now look at the primary terrain. The sharp edges are no longer there, neither is that portion of the shader. The test render I've uploaded with the Genesis 2 Dartan and Rosie shows this. I've also gone into the render room and put a check into 'refraction' at the top of the Rendering tab.

    Woodlands, as with all EnvironKits, were actually made to be a quick and easy background surrounding for any of your stuff. But they do work nicely as a stand-alone setting, which I am really happy with... I use them as such all the time now - simply because they'r so easy to work with. So because of that, I'll be making expansion kits that apply more 'up close' details to the scenery, along with a whole slew of new presets that include them. Working on that now.

    The Water
    Anyways, check out this test render.
    I didn't add anything extra to the scene, but I did change the level of the water by grabbing the "Replicated Water" group and bringing it up to near the top edge, if I leave the terracing filter on, or just by sight when I turn it off, like in this image.

    Making certain that I have the High Quality Water shader applied to the Ocean primitive, found inside the replicated water group, I then turn on Refraction, which is turned off by default, as the water is originally intended as a backdrop object, and now with this refraction turned on, what we see under the water level makes more sense in a shot that includes something penetrating its surface.

    So I automatically end up seeing slight rippling. This carries through in animation sequences too. I know... because that's what I use my EnvironKits for! ;)

    DCG Terrain Tools Shader Plugin
    So now we've got some really nice looking water that moves beautifully in an animation. If we were to add DCG's Terrain Tool's Beach or Intersect shaders, we can have the shader itself add what effects we want wherever something intersects with the replicated water's surface, like the sides along the shore, around the legs and/or bodies of our actors, your ducks, everything. I always spend my small budget for content before I realize that I really want that one, which is actually slightly over my normal allowance for CG toys 8-/
    But one of these times, I'm going to get it and show off! :ahhh:

    Enchanted_Falls_2H.jpg
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    DeselectTerrace1A.jpg
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    Post edited by Dartanbeck on
  • evilproducerevilproducer Posts: 9,050
    edited May 2014

    Tim_A said:
    Thank's for the link Dartan - not sure I can afford it this month - just blew the whole month's budget on Stephanie 6 and a bunch of the PC-extra-discount goodies. I think I'll give Dudu's idea a go though.

    You probably recognised the scene I used for the mockup. ;-) It does need softening though - reeds & rushes along the banks, maybe some rocks, and that little landing stage I've been working on. & even though you can't see them, the trees are adding to the reflections in the water. :)

    You need water plants? Blew your wad on Stephanie 6.....? Wait a minute, let me rephrase that.... :red: Spent all your money on Stephanie 6? Maybe this handy-dandy freebie will help:

    http://www.sharecg.com/v/69697/view/5/3D-Model/Fantasy-Village-terrain

    I also have it in my Dropbox public folder:
    https://dl.dropboxusercontent.com/u/7370483/Fantasy-terrain1.7.zip

    Post edited by evilproducer on
  • DartanbeckDartanbeck Posts: 21,326
    edited May 2014

    As for the Nerd3D stuff, Thunder River was what I really wanted. It doesn't come with the Waterfall Tool, but it it is set up to use it nicely - and that was my aim. Being a savvy customer with some cash in hand at the time, I decided to pick up the Nerd3d Tropical Falls Bundle, which includes both the Waterfall Tool and the Tropical Cove Set, which is also set up for use with it. So in getting Thunder River and the bundle, I ended up with an awful lot of cool water tools, and I absolutely love working with them. The products alone are enough to sell me on Nerd3d's name. But after following the link to the extras, you find that Nerd3d includes a wealth of very useful information on how to use and tweak what you've bought... it's why I include my extra instructions pdfs with my sets - being inspired by artists like this... I cannot say enough good things about it.

    EDIT:
    I also bought Soggy Bottom Swamp Set, which has a lot of great parts that can be used or not, and changed... very useful; the amazingly fun to use Rain Tool, which includes the rain emitters, drips, and splashes of various types, with plenty of morph setting dials for controlling their behavior... ingenious! There are plenty more in the Nerd3d store that I own and many more that I need to get my hands on, eventually. Like the Waves on the Beach, Flames, Dust... most of which a Carrara artist truly doesn't 'need', because we can make a lot of this stuff in other ways in Carrara. But it's fun to have these other tools to use. Like the footsteps in the snow or sand, pipes, I have the Cliff entrance and cave system... very cool! Great prices and an amazing value. Sorry I got so excited about this Nerd3d thing... it's just been a while since I've used these tools, as I was working on things that I can make myself, within Carrara. But I have to make sure to remember that I still want to collect the rest of the tools. Because when crunch time comes and I need an effect that I can just drop in and render, that's priceless! My workbench for Carrara items includes many ideas that originaly spawned from using Nerd 3d products within Carrara for my animation sets.

    Seeing Ken around again is also a heavy reminder of inspiration and fascination. Buying his bird sets is an amazing experience, as you not only get a great bird product, but also a wealth of information about the birds represented in the pack. Just amazing products and quite awe-inspiring. I miss you, Ken... and wish you'd come back to DAZ 3D!!!

    Post edited by Dartanbeck on
  • DartanbeckDartanbeck Posts: 21,326
    edited December 1969

    evilproducer said:

    You need water plants? Blew your wad Stephanie 6.....? Wait a minute, let me rephrase that.... :red: Spent all your money on Stephanie 6? Maybe this handy-dandy freebie will help:

    http://www.sharecg.com/v/69697/view/5/3D-Model/Fantasy-Village-terrain

    I also have it in my Dropbox public folder:
    https://dl.dropboxusercontent.com/u/7370483/Fantasy-terrain1.7.zip

    Speaking of getting a lot for your money... wow! I love evilproducer's freebie Fantasy Village Kit! It, too, comes with an amazing pdf booklet full of tips, and use information, options that he built into the kit, all manner of greatness. Buy this Freebie right away!

    BTW, knowing that you already use Woodlands, you should also know that I experimented with the shaders (I'm always experimenting with Shaders, since they can do so much in a Carrara scene) from each of the kits - combining mine into his, keeping his hand-painted roads and using the shaders from my Environkits underneath... worked beautifully... and was a fun practice! If you ever want to try that, but get stuck on how to... let me know. I'm really comfortable with the process ;)

    I've also had fun adding the Woodlands Object groups (Blocks of trees on terrain) into his village set, towards the outer regions of the village. It all works together very nicely!

    This one was a fun experiment using ep's amazing village (which should really be sold for $30 or so... truly... bt it is FREE, absolutely FREE!) with my shader experiment, mentioned above, and actors from Left to Right are:
    Genesis, lounging against the building, appearing as a Basic Male
    Victoria 2, as an adventuress, walking toward the camera, but looking to our right
    Michael 4 as the Mighty Dartanbeck, riding a Millennium Horse
    Victoria 4 as the Lovely and Heroic, Mystical Rosie, riding a Millennium Horse
    Loretta Lores, as a villager, walking away from us

    and let's not forget the Bonus feature included with every Fantasy Village Set: The Carrara "C" Block, which I've displayed proudly within the stone fencing :)

    Sunlight_Test_1a.jpg
    1280 x 720 - 645K
  • Songbird ReMixSongbird ReMix Posts: 289
    edited December 1969

    Dartanbeck said:
    As for the Nerd3D stuff, Thunder River was what I really wanted. It doesn't come with the Waterfall Tool, but it it is set up to use it nicely - and that was my aim. Being a savvy customer with some cash in hand at the time, I decided to pick up the Nerd3d Tropical Falls Bundle, which includes both the Waterfall Tool and the Tropical Cove Set, which is also set up for use with it. So in getting Thunder River and the bundle, I ended up with an awful lot of cool water tools, and I absolutely love working with them. The products alone are enough to sell me on Nerd3d's name. But after following the link to the extras, you find that Nerd3d includes a wealth of very useful information on how to use and tweak what you've bought... it's why I include my extra instructions pdfs with my sets - being inspired by artists like this... I cannot say enough good things about it.

    Seeing Ken around again is also a heavy reminder of inspiration and fascination. Buying his bird sets is an amazing experience, as you not only get a great bird product, but also a wealth of information about the birds represented in the pack. Just amazing products and quite awe-inspiring. I miss you, Ken... and wish you'd come back to DAZ 3D!!!

    It's nice to be missed and I'm glad someone appreciates my field guides :)

    I've included a detail of an image I did using the Splash tool-- it's not that obvious, but you can see the stepped slashes on the Hardhead (duck) taking off. Nerd3D has included a lot of different controls to vary the look of the splashes.

    ponddetail.JPG
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  • DartanbeckDartanbeck Posts: 21,326
    edited December 1969

    ...and this is the painting I made with that render:

    EnterVillageCenter1bpdB.png
    1280 x 720 - 2M
  • TangoAlphaTangoAlpha Posts: 4,584
    edited December 1969

    Ken Gilliland said:
    You should check-out Nerd3D's Splash Tool and Swamp set. I've used the splash tool to create the splashes on the water surface stimulating a take-off and landing. It does some nice ripples too. His swamp set has some of the most believable Poser water I've seen-- in fact it rivals renders done in Vue imo. I've also transplanted his "Waves on the Beach" skydome textures on the swamp skydome and created some decent estuary looking renders.

    Thanks Ken, I'll take a look. Bet you recognised your ducks! ;)

  • DartanbeckDartanbeck Posts: 21,326
    edited May 2014

    Ken Gilliland said:

    It's nice to be missed and I'm glad someone appreciates my field guides :) Well tell Kevin that you're coming back then! We all appreciate those super-awesome guides here! And the incredibly generous, giving, just plain super freaking awesome artist that makes them! :)

    I've included a detail of an image I did using the Splash tool-- it's not that obvious, but you can see the stepped slashes on the Hardhead (duck) taking off. Nerd3D has included a lot of different controls to vary the look of the splashes.

    It's that "not so obvious" effect that works best, in my opinion. I love ducks, cranes, we're getting an abundance of great blue herring again, gold eagles have been here as long as I was alive. When they were deemed to be nearly extinct, we still had one family that I knew of... but I only knew of that one. Now we have plenty of them and many varieties of hawks, owls, bird species a plenty.

    Ooops... sorry... got off track :red:

    ...and in watching them, I notice that they often don't leave a big splash, but just the subtle effect shown in Ken's image, above. Of course they CAN splash around and make big splashes! LOL

    My favorite waterfall that I've ever built belongs to a friend of mine. And she told me that a hawk dives into it on occasion and flaps his wings rapidly into the water, and then she calls me to tell me about it - of which I am very grateful. I love hearing happy bird reports. For many years, the demand for me by many clients was to build water features that attract birds. My first one was for a now friend, whom is a famous painter of ghost ships among other interesting paintings. It was a series of tiny trickles. Just like waterfalls, but amazingly small, using very little water. Doing it this way, we could use fresh water from his pump, as it used so little. Also, doing it this way, each trickle was a separate falls into its own tiny pool. Chick would come out and offer me the most delicious cup of coffee I've ever tasted every day, and we'd giggle about how the thing was so effective, that chipmunks and tiny finches and other assorted songbirds, even a beautiful hummingbird, that they would play around me, land on me, sing and chirp to me... as I worked to finish the thing, as it went all the way down a whole story of outdoor flagstone steps that I built for him a few years earlier. What fun memories! Now I just do that for myself... but I'd love to get an offer to do it some more... I'll never tire of my sculpting with stone, water, earth and plants. I make soil that is so delicious you could sleep on it... the smell is so sweet that it can put you right to sleep... or make you excited to play in it with wonderful plants!

    Wow... am I still talking? What I meant to say is that:

    A: Ken Gilliland should come home to DAZ 3D

    B: Subtlety is Good! ;)

    A couple more Fantasy Village renders. The one is what I was working on for one of the contests, so I made that flowering tree in the foreground, but never finished it

    EP_Village1H.jpg
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    3LTreeFVc85aH.jpg
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    Post edited by Dartanbeck on
  • TangoAlphaTangoAlpha Posts: 4,584
    edited December 1969

    I've downloaded the fantasy village now, and I'll be having a good poke around that too :) Thanks EP, it looks top notch!

  • evilproducerevilproducer Posts: 9,050
    edited May 2014

    Dartanbeck said:
    ...love ducks, cranes, we're getting an abundance of great blue herring...

    Nothing beats a nice tub of pickled Herring! To be completely honest, I never did observe their color.... ;-P

    Post edited by evilproducer on
  • DartanbeckDartanbeck Posts: 21,326
    edited December 1969

    evilproducer said:
    Dartanbeck said:
    ...love ducks, cranes, we're getting an abundance of great blue herring...

    Nothing beats a nice tub of pickled Herring! To be completely honest, I never did observe their color.... ;-PLOL

  • StezzaStezza Posts: 7,990
    edited December 1969

    Dartanbeck said:

    Agreed, by the way. I love all of those Nerd 3D effects kits, and since they were designed for use in Poser, they, of course, work beautifully in Carrara.

    Hey dart,

    I once purchased nerds dust & trail tool and it didn't work in Carrara so I got a refund..

    Have you got a list of his products that do work in Carrara as I haven't bought anything else from his store in case they didn't work either.. and I like some of the products he has.. :-)

  • HeadwaxHeadwax Posts: 9,964
    edited May 2014

    nice to see you posting Ken, we miss you.

    For the render and the wakes and stuff, on a still, it should be easy to do in post.
    That way you get it where you want it and how you want it - sounds like a sexy sixties song

    There's also that magnetic tool thing in the vertex room if you make your mesh high poly enough it should work.

    If you go post- Ron has great brushes available through daz -http://www.daz3d.com/catalogsearch/result/?q=deviney&x=0&y=0
    buy em on special if you can, collect the whole series, be the first in your street with a complete set and win a trip for two to Kansas with tine man, a man with no heart and a man made of straw....

    err where was I?

    also see http://www.photoshopessentials.com/photo-effects/water-ripples/

    trip trip lah lah as we say here in Oz

    Post edited by Headwax on
  • DartanbeckDartanbeck Posts: 21,326
    edited December 1969

    Stezza said:
    Dartanbeck said:

    Agreed, by the way. I love all of those Nerd 3D effects kits, and since they were designed for use in Poser, they, of course, work beautifully in Carrara.

    Hey dart,

    I once purchased nerds dust & trail tool and it didn't work in Carrara so I got a refund..

    Have you got a list of his products that do work in Carrara as I haven't bought anything else from his store in case they didn't work either.. and I like some of the products he has.. :-)I'm fairly certain that it will. Like all 'Made-for-Poser' products, it takes a bit of work, but not much. Just messing with the shaders. But maybe Dust and the Fire ones use something that Carrara just doesn't do? Hmmmm...

    All of the ones I've mentioned in my post above work great. The Waterfall Tool is even a belt that moves to make the falling water fall, with several different trans maps for setting density. Works really well, and so do the animation morphs in the Thunder River water.

    I have the Rain Tool, and that works great too. In Carrara, though, we have to realize that these are made for those smaller Poser scenes. He has info on the simple notion of expanding into larger scenes, which works well. But I still suggest keeping them closer towards the camera, if you're shooting a large scene.

    - Stone Bridge

    - Thunder River with the Danger Pass expansion

    - Tropical Cove

    - Waterfall Tool

    - Soggy Bottom

    - Rain Tool

    - Cave System: Cliff Entrance

    - Cave System

    That's what I have so far. I also want the Splash Tool, as Ken mentioned, Blowin' in the Wind, Waves on the Beach, Footsteps Tool, Spray Tool, all of the Walk Designers.

    I also want the Dust Trails and Fire, but if you say it doesn't work....
    Maybe I'll try it anyways, one day.

  • StezzaStezza Posts: 7,990
    edited December 1969

    thanks for the info on those items..

    yep, the dust trails just hangs up Carrara, for memory I think it was either version 7 or maybe 8 so I doubt anything would of changed for 8.5

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