Backing up data?
Elele
Posts: 1,097
Howdy folks,
I'm looking for solutions to back up my computer files. At the moment I save everything i need to certain folders and periodically copy these folders to an external drive. But my external drive is becoming too small and so i thought it might be a good opportunity to look for other options.
Some downsides of my current method:
-everything is manual
-due to this affliction i have, called "lazyness", i don't really do it often enough
-due to this other affliction i have , called "paranoia", i don't really like the idea of keeping my external drive close to my PC (which is of course where i keep it due to affliction no.1) in case i get robbed or something.
I've looked at those online backup thinghies, but for my amount of data it is way too expensive for me. So I'm still looking for other solutions, and so here you are reading this message.
What I am looking for preferably:
-something automatic
-something wireless
-capacity: minimum 4Tb, preferably +10Tb so i can make multiple backups
-other handy features, like networking computers, ...
So I was thinking maybe something like this:
http://www.amazon.co.uk/dp/B00BJ1BGB6/ref=wl_it_dp_o_pC_S_img?_encoding=UTF8&colid=2NQZCP4AX5G8C&coliid=I25QIRTI9EB11M&psc=1
But I dunno, any tips and advice will be appreciated ... probably.
Thanks,
Elele.
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Comments
The only issue I have found is that no matter whether or not it is internal or external, no matter what brand, HD's still fail. We keep disk image and archives in a secure off site storage facility. In fact, we keep copies of the disk images (updated on a daily basis) at more than one site.
We primarily use Iron Mountain as they mange both hard and digital file storage.
http://www.ironmountain.com/Services/Data-Management.aspx
Malewarebytes also offers secure back up as well
https://www.malwarebytes.org/securebackup/
Thanks, it is just for my home computers though. Those look like professional solutions. I'd have to spend 6000$ a year to backup 10TB. Unfortunately that is a bit out of my league atm, but I appreciate the vote of confidence :D
Iron Mountain is geared toward business but still the best in the business when it comes to storage, protection, and management of data.
Malwarebytes might be more what you're looking for. Or possibly Carbonite.
Here is a link to an article covering 38 different back up services
http://pcsupport.about.com/od/maintenance/tp/online_backup_services.htm
On the software side I use Acronis True Image as backup solution (http://www.acronis.com/en-us/personal/pc-backup/). It is a very good set of tools and currently on sale ($32.49, premium $54.99, highly recommended). It is quite flexible and easy to set up. I use it in combination with my Corsair case with 4 hot swap bays for SATA drives. I have one drive in there for continuous backup (daily incremental, two copies, the oldest one replaced every two month) and I use another bay for my "offsite" backup which I rotate in and out on biweekly basis and store at work). In addition I have a network connected 3TB drive which I use for file backup. This setup has served me well to recover files, move to a new SSD (via cloning) and to recover a damaged disk.
Ciao
TD
If you wish to do it in house as in yourself as I do. I suggest a BlueRay drive. High quality BlueDisk are rated at the longest storage time before degeneration and they hold an amazing amount of data. I still do not trust my data to a single back up even then. I do a full read to Hard Drive and then burn my data fully clean to two new Disks at every back up. I Keep one in my handy to use by PC shelve and the other stored in a stable acid free sleeve in a photo quality storage box also acid free. I then burn all the same content to a high quality external drive with its own power supply, those plug and play externals are not the proper type for intermittent backup storage.
Done this way all my files are confirmed check sum valid in every step. I still have every DS file I ever collected so far, even with DVD failure in the past before I moved up to BlueRay. The doulbe burn has saved me more than once in that regard.
Most NAS are pretty slow when it comes to data transfer on the network, which is annoying when it comes to hundreds of Gigabytes to backup, so check reviews before you buy. Synology and few other brands have faster models available.
If you prefer fast data transfer and more options when setting up your backup system, check the HP Microserver N54L, which is reduced in price being the previous model of that line, but make sure you get the 4GB version (or more) without HDD but with DVD drive that makes setting up easier. Plug in a 8GB USB Stick (it has an internal port for that), Install FreeNAS to the USB stick and use up to 4 HDD for data storage only. I just went to this solution after my Seagate BlackArmor NAS lost its 4HDD Raid5 configuration just after switching on after some days offtime, which was very disappointing. As most NAS use only their own GUI for configuration it's not easy to get your data back from HDD if something goes wrong, especially in RAID1 or 5 configurations (you would need to set up a linux system and try to mount the HDDs there, but isn't always a solution).
I did not buy from amazon but a third party distributor and paid around 200€ (~$250 I think) for the 4GB HP Microserver with DVD and then installed 4x 3TB Western Digital Red NAS harddrives. I also added a HP remote card (~90€) so that you don't need monitor or keyboard and can remote control everything via browser (even BIOS), still you don't really need that once it is set up and runs. It's still a little more work setting up the box, but if you don't like FreeNAS you have more options like Microsoft Homeserver (here in Germany a license for that from amazon is less than 50€) which is very easy to setup and run (I installed that one for a friend), or any other software including any Windows version you might still have available (some simply use Windows 7 or 8)..
Looking over the suggestions so far...
If you're storing petabytes of data off-site, then Iron Mountain is definitely the group to go to. (We recently compared service providers in this area because our previous provider got out of that business.) But most of us aren't storing petabytes of data off-site.
A cloud service removes the risk of forgetting to send the backups off-site. However, your backup disappears as soon as the cloud goes away, or has to comply with a court order, or starts charging more than you can afford to spend - and there's no guarantee that an unscrupulous employee won't read your data.
Thus, my preference for home backups and archives (two different things) is a NAS. If you've wired your home (or don't mind wi-fi data transfer speeds), you can stick the NAS in a closet somewhere away from your computer and still use it.
I'm not going to recommend particular brands - I don't know what's available to you. These are general suggestions:
1) Splurge and get the fastest drives you can in the capacity you need. If you don't, then the NAS will be your bottleneck in backing up your data. Be sure to set them up in some form of RAID, so that the failure of one drive doesn't take your data with it.
2) Check that your backup software actually works. Back up a file, and then restore it to disk. It's amazing how many so-called "backup solutions" fail the second part of that test.
I also highly recommend Acronis True Image. If you have a Seagate or Western Digital drive you can get a slightly feature-reduced version free.
My home backup consists of a pair of RAID drives in a mirror config, so my backup is backed up. It was surprisingly easy to do and involves no thought on my part. The chances of all three drives failing is (not impossible, but) very unlikely. I also second the notion of blu-ray backups. Optical media can't "fail" the way a HD can. (Though, you do need to handle them somewhat carefully to prevent scratches, etc.) I also backup the most sentimentally-important things -- original artwork, photos, creative documents, etc. -- off-site. I used to have a cloud service, but then I realized that my Dreamhost account had more storage than I could ever possibly use to host my webpage and I was already paying for it (19 bucks a month for 7 GB, I think.) Not sure I'd trust financial info floating around out there, but it's a great place for my family photos to live. I backup these files manually, but Dreamhost now also offers an actual cloud service, and it's pretty affordable.
All right thanks for the help so far :)
I also found this video "class" on youtube about backups so I'm a little more up to speed. It is from 2011, but still lots of valid info i think:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=k6dosJ9phWY
I think the best option for me atm is the NAS. I still need to look into the software involved and maybe some handy additional options I could have with such a system (like a shared HD, ... ). Acronis seems to pop up all the time, so that seems like a good option. But besides the program I also still need to look into how the data gets stored on the hdd (how easy it is to access, the raid stuff, ...)
The guy in the video warned about "server" software. It is basically much more expensive software that does the exact same thing as regular software. So at what point does the software recognise your setup as a server? Do all these NAS count as servers?
Also at what point does the external device need its own OS? I have an extra disk of win7 home, caus i needed to upgrade my current one to use all my memory. Can I use that?
Seems like your coming to the same conclusions like I am ...
Just for private purposes Acronis is a really good backup software. I use it since 2006. If you take a look at amazon, you will get the older versions pretty cheap. Just make sure you purchase a version that will work under Win7. I´m still using Acronis 2010 and don´t feel the need for an update.
As an external device I´m using a NAS storage center with two 1 TB SATA HDDs. Actually the storage device don´t need an OS.
The NAS settings can be accessed from every PC in your home network via the internet browser. Even with Win XP.
Can´t complain about this solution.
Maybe it's because I've lived and worked in areas prone to natural disasters and watched as our carefully thought out back up plans turned into a pile of rubble but keeping your back ups in the same general locale as your system won't prevent loss.
At the very least, consider keeping an up to date image of the HD off site. Same goes for any files you cannot retrieve from other off sites.
It is just to backup my home stuff. Loosing the data would be really really annoying but it is nothing that i can't live without. Also no natural disasters here. The only thing that could happen is a robbery or very maybe a fire. If its a fire i'll have other problems to deal with and i hope i can hide the nas out of sight so the robbers won't bother.
another question:
Say my HD is 4Tb, does the backup hd also need 4 Tb or does it need more?
A system becomes a server when you say it's a server. Usually a server serves files - hence the name - and thus needs to be reliable; the software is (supposed to be) more thoroughly tested. That's why the software costs more.
The NAS should have its own OS when you buy it. The OS probably won't be Windows - it'll be a custom job that's burned into the chips. You won't need to supply one.
The NAS own OS is what I mean with settings. :-)
The NAS is like a PC in your network but only manufactured with the basic abillities to comunicate in a network.
If you mirroring your hard disk you need at least the same disk space. So for 4 TB you need 4 TB.
If you use a backup software like Acronis, the software does compression, like a zip-file. But it depends on what kind of data is compressed. Usually the compression works very well , but sometimes the archive isn´t much compressed.
4 TB with BackUp-Sofware will end up smaller then 4 TB.
I'm reading some horror stories about NAS where the software stops working, which results in loss of all data.
Is it not better to just have windows on it and then add whatever functionality i want later on?
Concerning the Acronis, i suppose that goes on my pc or does it need to be on the nas too?
Atm I'm digging those HP proliant microservers, specially now that the old models are 50% off
Still more cheking to do though :)
Yes, Acronis TrueImage is installed on the machine you want to backup, i.e. your PC. I have a seagate NAS and it works well so far. I use it mainly for the time machine backup of my MacBook Pro and for incremental file backup. The main backup via Acronis goes onto the additional disks inside my PC (They are in hot swap trays, so adding and exchanging disks takes only seconds). They are connected via SATA3 (6 Gbits/s - 600 Mb/s) and backups are very fast.
Ciao
TD
That’s why I recommended the HP Microserver.
Its housing is only slightly larger than a 4-bay NAS and it holds up to 4 HDDs as well. Same for power consumption, which is only slightly higher than many NAS, although that wasn’t of interest to me as I don’t run it 24/7. The whole thing is build with high quality materials (remember it’s a business, not a consumer product and wasn’t that cheap before). If you are looking for cons you probably will find people claiming the HDDs don’t support hot-plugging (replacing a defect HDD without downtime, but there’s an alternative firmware available that supports that), no USB3 support (as it’s the prior model) and missing some specific power saving mode (it can stop the HDDs, but not the CPU I think, as said before that didn’t matter to me as I only turn it on when I need it). Take care with memory upgrades as it uses error correcting ECC modules, that are more expensive, that’s why I recommended the 4GB version to start with. And please don’t forget that most NAS will have a lot of cons too..
See a NAS as an out-of-the-box solution for home users. It isn’t bad if you find a model with good network speed (you need to read reviews for that, a 1000Mbit network socket alone doesn’t say anything), but with the NAS you usually are bound to their very own software and services, few even need specific drivers on your PC to access their GUI, while better ones can be configured from any browser through their web interface. Another problem for some NAS is that you rarely get updates for their software (as I found out with my Seagate box), at least from some manufacturers.
With the Microserver you have the freedom to install the OS that you like.
- If you want Windows 7 or 8 and don’t need more than network shares and such to send your backups with TrueImage - fine, install it.
- If you want a NAS alternative, try FreeNAS which is build on FreeBSD and doesn’t cost anything. It boots from (internal) USB stick and keeps your HDDs free for your data. The GUI and handling is the same as you will find with any NAS then and there are many free software add-ins available (some NAS can be extended via software add-ins too, within limits). That’s my personal choice now, as it supports fast harddisk encryption on-the-fly too. Works with TrueImage as well.
- If you want a ‘real’ server that is easy to administer, try Microsofts Windows Homeserver 2011 that is pretty cheap in some countries (like here in Germany where you can legally buy OEM licenses for less than 50€). It uses the same technique that the professional and expensive Windows Server 2008 is build on, but has some extras for automatic incremental backups of Windows machines and includes licenses for up to 10 clients. On the other hand it has some limitations (I would have to look these up, something about harddisk size for system partition I think). Still I can confirm that it worked excellent when a HDD died on one PC, simply replaced the hdd, booted a small program from a client recovery CD then and it took 30 minutes until it rebuilt the whole PC from the server backup to its exact previous state. With MS Homeserver you won’t need something like Acronis Trueimage as it comes with its own Windows backup solution that works with anything from XP to 8.1 (but not sure if it supports Macs as well)
- If you some day prefer a real server you can even install any linux server that won’t cost a dollar, but are more on the professional side and aren’t that easy to set up (they usually don’t have a GUI but use command prompt) or go for expensive MS servers as well
All this is just not possible with a NAS. Still a NAS might be the weapon of your choice if you want the most simple solution.
PS: You don’t need to start with 4 HDDs, no matter if NAS or Microserver, you can start with 1 or 2 disks and add another one when you need more storage space later, though some RAID setups need a specific number of disks from the start. But that’s the same for NAS and servers - and needs some decisions to be made before you setup your box, whatever you choose.
PPS: Acronis Tueimage will work with NAS and servers, no problem. But unlike recommended somewhere else, I’d say don’t buy old versions as those might not support newer GPT harddisk partitions or Windows 8.1 if you’re unlucky. I just bought the 2014 Premium 3 licenses version for that reason, as I had problems with the 2010 version (2013 might be okay too). On sale I paid 40€ for the 2014 Premium with 3 licenses, which was a good price.
double post -.-
My NAS works since two years now without problems. It is what it is, just a Network Attached Storage. More Disk Space in my home network (1 PC, 1 Notebook and the NAS. Thats not a very large network! :-) )
For sure there is more advanced stuff out there than a NAS, it depends on your future plans what to do. The NAS is a basic solution nothing more. ... at least to me it was the lowest price solution two years ago.
I think I will go with a microserver as they give more flexibility and are about the same price as the others atm.
One more important question:
Do I need one backup HD for every HD in my computer, or can i backup more hd to one hd?
For example: atm i have a
500 Gb SSD in PC1
2Tb HDD in PC1
1 Tb HDD in PC2
Can I back all those up onto a single 4Tb Hdd? Or would i need a seperate HDD for each HDD (or for each pc)?
No, you don´t need a seperate HDD for each HDD in your PCs.
Acronis can package each partition on your HDDs to its own compressed archive. You can store these archives side by side on one single HDD. As far as your example goes (and I guess you have some free disk space on each HDD.) one 4 TB HDD can store all the Acronis files of both PCs.
(Although I'd recommend two backups, in case something happens to one of them. Drives do have a finite lifespan, after all.)
I went with this little fellar :
http://www.amazon.co.uk/exec/obidos/ASIN/B00HF8JWDQ/ref=ox_ya_os_product_refresh_T1
for 220€ including delivery cost.
Hope it gets here soon (:
Thanks for all the help guys :)
Price is good, though it seems that comes without optical drive. You might want to add one later, if you should decide to install some OS like Windows as it makes things easier. Still I'd recommend wait and see if it comes with an optical drive before buying anything else. If you want to attach a monitor make sure it has 15pin VGA plug (that's the older analog one), most flatscreens have this one as second option as well.
I'd recommend trying FreeNAS first, that would not even need an optical drive or a monitor, cause you can prepare the USB stick on your PC and then just boot the box from the stick (there's an internal USB socket behind the door). After booting from this USB stick then, you only need to find out which IP, so either check from your router or try some IP that are close to your PC one. Once you have the IP you can open FreeNAS user interface from browser, log in and install harddisks just like with any other NAS. You find a how-to for preparing the USB stick here: http://doc.freenas.org/index.php/Installing_and_Upgrading_FreeNAS (see under 'Burning an IMG file'). When booting from USB give the box some time before you try to open its interface, it might need 1 or 2 minutes before it gets available. PS: You will not need the concole setup that is mentioned on 'initial setup' from the link, if you find the IP from your router (from Windows Explorer might work too, but I need to check that).
Give FreeNAS a chance and you get a professional solution for free. On first glance it might be a bit overwhelming, but you finally need only few settings to get it running. I'll gladly help if you have questions, though I'm quite new to that one, too. And finally you can always decide to install some other OS like Windows later if you don't get the hang on it. But it's worth it.
PS: You find all screws for mounting the 4 harddisks to their frames and optical drive and a torx screwdriver on the inner side of the door, you easily miss these if you don't know !
I have optical drives around should I need one. But I was planning on trying freenas first like you suggested.Will this work with the Acronis software or does freenas use its own program?
PS: saw the screws in all the unboxing and review videos i watched :D
Yes, you can use Acronis True Image with FreeNAS, it's what I do here too.
There are some quite similar alternatives like Paragons Backup & Recovery 2014 Free available and Windows 7/8 come with full system image backup tool too (though it's a bit hidden), but personally I like TrueImage and use different versions for years now.
If you have at least one Seagate or Maxtor HDD in your PC you can try 'Seagate DiscWizard' which is original Acronis TI Software with some functions disabled, but backup functions are fully functional I think (I use that for a friend to do sector based image backups with no problems). Same if you have at least one Western Digital harddisk in your PC, then you could try 'Acronis True Image WD Edition' (I did not try that one yet, but should be very similar). Please note that the hdd brands need to be in your PC to install the free versions (installer checks for those), additional hdds can be different brands, what hdd is in the MicroServer doesn't matter.
A problem might be that these free versions are probably not latest version of TrueImage, but maybe 2 or 3 versions back, although this is just a guess - maybe they have been updated meanwhile. Older versions do not support GPT harddisk partitions I think, that you might have with large hdds (usually >2TB) in newer PC with UEFI bios. If you want to save money you can still test those and see if they work for you, if you upgrade to full TrueImage later the backup files you did will remain functional and compatible.
I've generally found the WD version to be pretty recent, either current or 1 version back, the Seagate one is a little older. The qualifying hard disk doesn't have to be the one in the PC, an external one works too.
Yep, that's correct. What I really meant was the free software does not work if the qualifying hdd is in the NAS or MicroServer, it needs to find one qualifying drive attached to the PC, doesn't matter if internal or external one. Thanks for clarifying.
Dang it! Missed the delivery guy :(
How did it get here so fast, 10 hours ago it was still in Spain... Though I have no idea why :D
Well, good news is, i should have it tomorrow then if all goes well. Then i can start tinkering with software stuff and figure out what you guys are talking about :)