Monstrosity Weapons and question for content creators
shante
Posts: 206
I just discovered the Monstrosity Weapons I purchased when first released doesn't work for my version of Poser (7).
Again failure to read the specs sheet has scrooged my Poser 7 pooch!
I hate whining and whiners like anyone else but I am getting so darn frustrated that non articulate props that can easily be included in the packages here are not included even as obj based importable for the older Poser 7 users. I shouldn't have to get Poser9 or learn even the free D/S just to be able to use the DSON importer for simple non articulated props. I can see the argument for characters and clothes and other articulate props which are created specifically with newer technology to address all the wonderful bells and whistles of the newer apps. BUT does it really have to apply to non-articulate props? I say no. And if the content creators are not versed in the creation of xontent for say older versions of Poser and only D/S studio is it not possible to create these props exportable as .obj props to be able to simply import into Poser or other apps with textures intact?
The same has held true for hair. There are few content creators articulate and sensitive enough that offer poseable hair still as .Hr2 figures.
I love these artists. The ones who don't and only offer their products as D/S figures, or .Cr2 figures only, exclude a portion of the consumer base out there. It is cool offering a DSON importer but again only Poser9 and above users can use that. I always use the hair on other figures it may not have been made for and depending how created it is not feasible to just parent it to the head if you need to use the movement morphs on it. Say a braid hair, after parenting it to the head, capturing the chest part to blow the braids back will always blow the hair off the head needing way more work needed to reset it all on the head.
Anyway that's my rant.
I just contacted sales and am hoping to get a refund or credit for the weapons which is sadly a lost sale for the creator.
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Comments
CR2 hair should work in Poser 7 - it first appeared in Poser 4. Individual items may have problems, but not as a rule.
I think in this case the .cr2's are Poser Companion Files rather than legacy Poser items.
Poser companion files require the DSON importer which requires P9 or higher. P7 uses an older version of Python so it cannot read the scripts for the importer.
The OP needs a product that lists a Poser Core Installer, not a Poser Companion File.
well, we've addressed the hair...somewhat and the DSON importer thing and python script differences in Poser 7 that doesn't play nice with DSON.
Now what I am painfully curious about is why in props in the store w/o P7 core installers for non articulate props, why it is necessary to exclude any possible use in older versions of Poser?
thanks for the info. i have to be more careful of the wording in product pages.
I know it's not really an answer, but as a workaround, you could open the prop in Studio and export as an .obj to use in Poser.
Normally .Cr2 hair works fine in older versions of poser....IF it is a conforming figure the hair was created for. If it is made for V4 it is not going to work as a conforming hair for say V2. I have on the other hand, .Hr2 hair for Posette functional in Poser 4 that still works work fine with all figures useable in Poser including animals, robots etc. because it is not conforming therefore generally more flexibly useable hair.
I only included the hair stuff to expand on my point of not being able to get product that I can still use. Again, i repeat I understand figures like the Genesis based figures and their cloths no longer being backward compatible with older apps but I just don't understand architecture sets, hair and props and non articulate stuff can't continue offering us retro app and character users to continue giving DAZ our money.
Normally .Cr2 hair works fine in older versions of poser....IF it is a conforming figure the hair was created for. If it is made for V4 it is not going to work as a conforming hair for say V2. I have on the other hand, .Hr2 hair for Posette functional in Poser 4 that still works work fine with all figures useable in Poser including animals, robots etc. because it is not conforming therefore generally more flexibly useable hair.
I only included the hair stuff to expand on my point of not being able to get product that I can still use. Again, i repeat I understand figures like the Genesis based figures and their cloths no longer being backward compatible with older apps but I just don't understand architecture sets, hair and props and non articulate stuff can't continue offering us retro app and character users to continue giving DAZ our money.
I think you're assuming that everyone has a version of Poser available to create content. Some don't and probably don't see the need to create content for software compatible to 3 versions behind the current versions. Should creators be restricted be required to support versions of software 3 versions behind? I don't think so and it doesn't advance the content in general or the software when vendors can't use all the latest features of software. Eventually it does becomes necessary for customers to upgrade when they fall behind several versions or they won't be able to use the latest content. Asking vendors to stay behind in technology because customers don't feel the need to upgrade their software that is several years old is unrealistic. There's been several upgrade sales that cost the equivalent of several pieces of content, so upgrading to use currently content is not extremely expensive.
In the case of the Monstrosity Weapons, which are smart-propped for the DAZ Monstrosities, the PA may have felt that it would be incorrect to provide an incomplete product, since they would not be smart-props in older versions of DS or Poser.
of course you are all right and I am just a cheap stupid old poser user who has no idea of the complexities of content creation...of course if i did I wouldn't need to have spent literally thousands of dollars here alone since DAZ broke off from Zygote and despite being out of work still have my credit held permanently captive by DAZ and a few other Poser content sites.
Male-M3dia:
Please read my post completely and you might find i am not really disagreeing with the content creators motivation. Of course they are creating content to work with the best aspects of the current versions of the applications out there. My argument is simply of they do not really have to create poseble/articulate content please create it or export is as simple.obj files with the original textures so cheap stupid and unrealistic OLD Poser Users like me can still get their money's worth.
I don't use D/S and will never.
I may or may not use newer versions of Poser but would still like to be able to PURCHASE props I can use including a textured .obj version of it with the package designed to be used in D/S or Poser 10 I really don't think is way to much to hope for.
But as I did say too, I will be returning the product as un-useable and read the specs more carefully so i don't make the mistake again of purchasing an un-useable product. Actually it is a good thing because as time moves forward I thankfully see I am wasting less and less money here and elsewhere on this darn old Poser addiction. I'll use the stuff I already have, hundreds of CD's worth of content, until I can't use it anymore or until I lose interest and hopefully just go back to pen and ink! Never should have gotten into this merry-go-round of forced obsolescence known as digital art!
THank you all for your responses and sorry if i seemed angry.
How could a product be considered incomplete if it offers alternative options for use beyond what the intent of characters it was originally created for? If I want to use a weapon created for the old DAZ Troll for a K4 creature figure like Shamus I should be able to. It doesn't need to be smart propped and i in fact prefer it not be. Have newer Poser users or D/S users gotten so lazy they can't position props into thir figures hands? Many such creators used to offer smart propped L & R as well as plain old props for users to do with as we wished.
If the creators of Monstrosity Weapons added .obj based versions in the package i wouldn't ranting here pissing veryone off and i wouldn't be trying to return the product for credit.
I loved the look of the weapons and wanted to use them in my work. Just got frustrated i couldn't
It seems that a site like DAZ in business to sell product, offering the most options to SELL A PRODUCT should be the first order of the day. But what do i know? :(
Actually it was a thoughtful answer but I just am reluctant to install another application that will sit a take up needed realestate and force myself to learn it, just for doing conversions and exports when they could be offered in the product packages I buy i the first place.
Actually it was a thoughtful answer but I just am reluctant to install another application that will sit a take up needed realestate and force myself to learn it, just for doing conversions and exports when they could be offered in the product packages I buy i the first place.
Well, if you change your mind, you don't really need to learn anything about studio to export as an obj. You just load the item and then select 'export' from the file menu, then set the file type to .obj and the export scale to Poser (obviously).
I can understand not wanting to install a new program, but if there's a few things you want to convert then you could maybe install, do a batch of conversions and then uninstall, and it is free. Hexagon I think would also work and might be lighter wait but isn't free anymore.
I know it's frustrating to not be able to use things in your program of choice (trust me, being a Daz user at Rendo sometimes feels like beating your head against a wall, although it is definitely improving recently), but unfortunately sometimes it comes to a choice between using your program of choice, adding an extra step or piece to the workflow or doing without.
Again, I think it is unrealistic to ask vendors for things simply because you do not wish to upgrade. Again, you are three versions or several years behind. It does not matter the application, if you wish to use the new items you need to upgrade or find workarounds of your own to use items in your older program. There are reasons to save it in new formats, as it doesn't involve some of the issues to get it in a format that is usable for customers and passes QA and is less work. Adding another set of files just for your case is extra work and increases the size of the product, so it's up to the discretion of the vendor, and I'm guessing those vendors don't see the value or increase in revenue to do it.
When people speak of forced obsolescence, I don't think they realize that the tech some of the things they use are almost or more than a decade old. In a decade, how many cell phones, music players, computers, or even cars have they traded up to in that time because they have new features or no longer serve their needs? 3D art is technology as well, and there's are lots of tech in this industry still not implemented from the mainstream because some haven't upgraded their software in years. Thankfully there has been efforts to move some of the technology forward that improves the look of the content and how it performs as well as make it easier for vendors to make the content, and I think that's what you're seeing as you look at the stores and why upgrading your software at least every few years is good for everyone as a whole.
You're not a cheap stupid old Poser user. I know plenty of people who are still using P7. I often end up back in P7 because I need a python plugin that was never updated for P8 or P9.
Simple rules of thumb. If a product states it is for Genesis or Genesis 2, don't bother with it. If you look at the list of installers and you don't see Poser Core Installer, don't bother. If you see DSON and Poser Companion File, don't bother.
It's a pain, I know. In all versions of Poser (even 10), props are still props. Outside of the addition of weight mapped rigging to the newer figures, the older figures and props are still the same. There have been some changes to the Poser material room so if the obj has a procedural texture rather than a texture map, you might find some differences but the obj file is still there and still works the same as it did in Poser 4. Prop hair is no different. The lighting has changed but most vendors who include light sets set them up in P6 so they are compatible with all common versions of Poser.
Both Antonia Polygon and MyMichelle have legacy and weight mapped versions available so you can use them in P7. Miki4 won't work in P7 but that's because SMS used the encapsulated joint rig on it and it only works in P8 and up. Dawn requires P9 but really isn't anything to write home about.
The only version of Poser available today that does not come with content creation tools is Poser Debut. Curious Labs added the set up room when they created Poser ProPack which was an add on for P4. P8 and above can also rig with newer encapsulated joint rigging. It was only when SMS added weight mapped rigging that they decided to add that option only to the Pro versions.
I gotta say, for me it is becoming harder and harder to develop for poser.
I had hoped that as poser grew and newer versions came out that it would close the gap better, but I keep finding more and more issues coming up with my characters that are just simple faults in how poser handles things.
Scaling issues are showing up more and more, causing me to have to drop poser versions when in the qa process because it wont work in this or that version of poser. This is a real pain, because I specifically make mat files in poser for things, so all that work gets thrown away too simply because of one poser issue.
Now there are also more and more issues coming with how poser handles subdivision too.
So now I have the choice of wether to limit my creativity and dumb-down my sets to work in both poser and d/s, or just move closer and closer to d/s only.
Needless to say....I dont like to limit creativity ;)
Rawn
Oh I'm glad I'm not the only one that noticed something funky with the sizes!
To make a prop that works in Poser .... okay first I have to make the prop to work in D/S using the free script. That I then export out the .obj form ... and delete the prop 'cause it messes up the shading domains.
Import the prop's .obj into Poser.
Import in the original .obj into Poser and keep re-doing that until I get a "close to what I want" size ... then delete the D/S script made one.
Fix the materials a little in Poser, and make the Poser prop. It will work in Poser and D/S.
Back in D/S, I'll import the original .obj file again, fix the materials a little, make a D/S .duf prop.
While the D/S script file for making props works in D/S; apparently it doesn't always work, or work as desired, in Poser.
So basically one needs Poser to make a Poser prop.
Can't say I understand much about which version of subdivision does what. Like Collada, I got lost on all the different versions long ago. I don't have a problem with Poser's weight mapped rigging but that's because I learned weight mapped rigs in Maya and there are some differences but not many.
In the end, I've pretty much come to view DAZ Studio and Poser as I view other apps like Maya and Modo. Each is a separate and distinct application with it's own native content and a certain amount of content that can cross platform if you are willing to put the work into it. The developers have all decided on which path works best for them and each has their own reasons for the choices they make.
Do you have your copy of Poser's general pref's set for cm's rather than PNU which it defaults to? Also, when you export the object, are you exporting in DS units or Poser units? The units issue came up in another thread when a member was trying to import a morph. If you imported the obj with morph loader in DS units, it didn't work. If you imported in PNU it worked fine. Also, when you import an obj file into Poser, you can adjust size in the import dialog box. Yes, I know, the general rule is to uncheck all the boxes.
You may also find that it is easier to take the obj created in your modeller into Poser first and then into DS. It is a bit backward to your current workflow but you might find it saves time.
Again, I think it is unrealistic to ask vendors for things simply because you do not wish to upgrade. Again, you are three versions or several years behind. It does not matter the application, if you wish to use the new items you need to upgrade or find workarounds of your own to use items in your older program. There are reasons to save it in new formats, as it doesn't involve some of the issues to get it in a format that is usable for customers and passes QA and is less work. Adding another set of files just for your case is extra work and increases the size of the product, so it's up to the discretion of the vendor, and I'm guessing those vendors don't see the value or increase in revenue to do it.
When people speak of forced obsolescence, I don't think they realize that the tech some of the things they use are almost or more than a decade old. In a decade, how many cell phones, music players, computers, or even cars have they traded up to in that time because they have new features or no longer serve their needs? 3D art is technology as well, and there's are lots of tech in this industry still not implemented from the mainstream because some haven't upgraded their software in years. Thankfully there has been efforts to move some of the technology forward that improves the look of the content and how it performs as well as make it easier for vendors to make the content, and I think that's what you're seeing as you look at the stores and why upgrading your software at least every few years is good for everyone as a whole.
Hmm! I do agree with all you say but unless we can walk in one anothers' shoes we can never really understand the reasons why we complain about certain things. You don't know me so certainly do not know the reasons for my problem with the technology.
Not too many ways i can respond to this without sounding like I am the odious whiner even i hate. So here is the long winded version.
Just turned 61 and out of work for 10 years and lost three members of my family within 8 months one of which I had to care for. I have dealt with little or no income using up what little savings I had and whatever was left me by family members in their passing. I have dealt with health issues and severe depression. I have a learning disability so learning new stuff especially computer and digital is really tough. I just can't wrap my old brain around new things any more, stresses me out and I want to go to sleep.
I used to be a photographer, lived and breathed it. Can't do it any more because film is too expensive, I have no room for a darkroom and can't afford it anyway. I bought a new system and have had difficulty learning to use what used to be second nature. I forget what I try to learn as I read it and digital cameras seem to be anti-intuitive for me. The more complex something is the more difficult for me to learn the harder my system breaks down.
So that is primarily why I no longer can subject myself to upgrading if I really don't have to. I was never a whiz kid with Poser4. I did ok, got some commissions and even got an image published as a full page in the last issue of: THE FUTURE OF EROTIC FANTASY ART book and despite my issues was pretty proud of that. Upgraded to Poser 7 3 or 4 years ago from v.4 when I was forced to upgrade to a new Mac system. Again I say forced by the inherent ebb and flow of technology.
Poser for me is supposed to be relaxing. I love sitting and spinning those stupid dials making new characters and once in a while those characters i create actually become the center pieces for a simple render idea. Never figured out the MATERIAL ROOM or making Morphs or the CLOTH Simulator or quicker ways to set up good lighting (despite being a great lighting tech as a photographer/filmmaker for many years). My user knowledge of P4 was rudimentary and no more advanced for Poser 7. I doubt I will even be able to learn D/S thus the reluctance to try.
One thing i always wanted to learn and have not been able wrapping my head around, despite all the damn money I have spent on Bryce, Carrarra and Hexagon, is creating my own stuff. Talk about frustrating having to beg others for help with stuff or waiting until THE UNIVERSE prompted someone more capable to create JUST WHAT I NEEDED.
Actually I hate new "TOYS". Don't have a tablet or smart phone except for a free stupid little cell phone from Virgin Wireless I get as part of my free Service, a reward for being a Senior Citizen. It is always off because I really can't hear from it anyway and when i do activate it to hear for any messages, It cuts off mid transmissions. I still have older Macs and though useless just as you say I can't get rid of them despite having updated to a newer MacBook Pro.
I guess I am not a gadget person preferring to buy what I need and not what others tell me I need or should have.
FORCED OBSOLESCENCE is a very real phenomenon. Hardware and software companies are businesses and need to change to survive. I have thousands of dollars invested in software I no longer use or ever really learned to use pretty much de-installing them and putting them back on the shelves. I have given up trying to keep up with the darn technology. I just want to sit and spin....dials...to make once in a while, some semblance of a pretty picture to give myself a token of comfort in calling myself "an Artist".
I know a long winded explanation as to why I started this thread and I truly apologize. Just found out the item I complained about is not going to be reimbursed me or credited me. The first time that has happened to me while here at DAZ as a loyal customer. Maybe I've been here too long? Needless to say I am a bit disappointed but I do understand. I think it is best I try and read the specs more carefully and if I don't understand I contact tech support and ask before plunking down my money.
Anyway, Sorry for the spam and making your eyes bleed reading this. Got nothing more to say. Thanks all for the responses some have added clarity and is appreciated. Goodbye!
I have read that about the DSON importer and many of those I have chatted with about it suggested i avoid it especially being tech challenged! :(
Do you have your copy of Poser's general pref's set for cm's rather than PNU which it defaults to? Also, when you export the object, are you exporting in DS units or Poser units? The units issue came up in another thread when a member was trying to import a morph. If you imported the obj with morph loader in DS units, it didn't work. If you imported in PNU it worked fine. Also, when you import an obj file into Poser, you can adjust size in the import dialog box. Yes, I know, the general rule is to uncheck all the boxes.
You may also find that it is easier to take the obj created in your modeller into Poser first and then into DS. It is a bit backward to your current workflow but you might find it saves time.
Sadly logic doesn't seem to be a factor in whatever it is my copy of PoserPro12 is doing.
I'll double check those preferences - haven't got a clue atm what they are, so probably are PNU which is ??
I can make a whole bunch of .obj files [i.e. truly separate files, not referring to groups] exported out of Hexagon ... all using the very same settings.
In D/S I can import any of all those object files using the same settings and it all loads as desired.
In Poser I can import any of all those very same object files allegedly using the very same settings [whatever it was I was using at the time] ... and every object came in all different sizes ... well maybe 2 were about the same in ratio ... and the further from zero centre anything was, the worse it was. Some had to be imported in at 100%, others at maximum, others in decimals ... did all the work for the lounge remake set I released some time back ... made a few hair saving decisions ... more recent projects tend to be D/S only. Save of course that I also tend to put together a .cr2 package which will work [more or less] in both programs.
I have read that about the DSON importer and many of those I have chatted with about it suggested i avoid it especially being tech challenged! :(
While it is in my Product Library that also was my "let's save some hair conclusion" ... haven't even installed a copy. I'll use Poser specific files in Poser and D/S specific files in D/S.
Reading through some posts, yeah, installing D/S even can look real scary. But honestly, speaking as somebody who isn't too keen on changing programs every day either ... one can download D/S manually, install it manually, use the Content Library to find stuff [not the same as the Smart Content which IMHO bounces around too much - have visions problems] , load a prop, with it selected in the Scene, Go File > Export > .obj file ....
Check the file in whichever program one wants to [to be sure the preferences are bringing the desired results].
Close D/S.
This one has some Poser files: http://www.daz3d.com/sci-fi-warrior-bundle And the price can't be beat :-)
Scifi Melee Weapons Ps 27.50 MB as per my product library.
Looks nice but not worth my downloading now after this thread. needs D/S and DSON and Poser 9+ to work. Even free it is useless to me.
Looks nice but not worth my downloading now after this thread. needs D/S and DSON and Poser 9+ to work. Even free it is useless to me.
Well for free, might be an idea to "buy" it now in case you change your mind later.
Going through the list in my product library these AFAIK should work in Poser7+
They are props.
Level 19 Ps 19.28 MB
Scifi Melee Weapons Ps 27.50 MB
I do feel for your situation, however it really doesn't change how things are. Just as you have your reasons for not upgrading, vendors have bills to pay and they need to do it as efficiently as possible and they have their own reasons for that. If you feel that it's unnecessary to upgrade, then you have to make do with what you have or work with things that will make you happy. Vendors are not going to please everyone and at the end of the day, they have to do things they feel that will pay their bills because their landlord or utility company will not accept hardship stories for payment. If things some people want will not accomplish that goal, then it's something they can't do.
If you're like me, I have lots of freebies and products that I've bought I've had yet to use. I'm sure changing your focus to that may bring you some enjoyment without purchasing additional content or moving to a updated version of an application. And if you do choose to buy content, then you have to pay attention for what programs that content is for or ask questions if you're not sure. But technology does move forward, so you will see more and more things that won't work with your software than will.
Sadly logic doesn't seem to be a factor in whatever it is my copy of PoserPro12 is doing.
I'll double check those preferences - haven't got a clue atm what they are, so probably are PNU which is ??
I can make a whole bunch of .obj files [i.e. truly separate files, not referring to groups] exported out of Hexagon ... all using the very same settings.
In D/S I can import any of all those object files using the same settings and it all loads as desired.
In Poser I can import any of all those very same object files allegedly using the very same settings [whatever it was I was using at the time] ... and every object came in all different sizes ... well maybe 2 were about the same in ratio ... and the further from zero centre anything was, the worse it was. Some had to be imported in at 100%, others at maximum, others in decimals ... did all the work for the lounge remake set I released some time back ... made a few hair saving decisions ... more recent projects tend to be D/S only. Save of course that I also tend to put together a .cr2 package which will work [more or less] in both programs.
Ok, a PNU is Poser Native Unit. In P4 is was about the equivalent of 8 feet in the real world. As of P5, it was about 8.26 ft. Why the change? Beats the heck out of me. I just remember reading it way back in the P5 manual. DS uses centimeters as a unit of measure by default. Unless you go into Poser's general preferences and change the unit of measure to centimeters, it defaults to Poser Native Units. If you decide to leave the Poser default at PNU, make certain when you export an object from DS into Poser you use the DS to Poser conversion in the object export menu. DS Units (I cm) to Poser (8 ft).
Hex and I never really got along. I either use Max, Maya and Mudbox for the most part. I've been rigging since the days of P3 and doing in in the set up room since PPP. If I import an obj file using the same settings on the Poser obj import and the obj doesn't import properly, the problem is usually with the settings I used on export from the modeller and not Poser's settings.
Looks nice but not worth my downloading now after this thread. needs D/S and DSON and Poser 9+ to work. Even free it is useless to me.
You can use parts of the bundle in Poser 7. The Weapons have a Poser Core installer. You only need to download the PS versions of the weapons although you may already have them as they were given away as a weekly freebie at one time. Even if you don't they are very nice weapons and work well in Poser. The other prop you can use in the bundle is Level 19. It is an older Stonemason environment prop that DAZ bought out some time ago. In fact, the door to Level 19 was in the very old DAZ free archive. The one that pre-dated the weekly freebie. It's another item with a Poser installer and was actually created originally for Poser.
There are 3 interactive bundles that are free.
http://www.daz3d.com/inside-the-asylum-bundle
West Park set is in this and has a Poser installer that will work for you.
http://www.daz3d.com/day-at-the-beach-bundle
You can use the volley ball set in this one.
This one is $3.
http://www.daz3d.com/slaying-the-dragon-bundle
The Dragon Tower and the Daggers both have Poser installers.