How to store poses globally?
AndyS
Posts: 1,438
Hi,
how to store own poses I now well. But the question is which parameters must be included and which better to exclude, so you can apply the pose to every random character (out of the same character family of cause) in every random scene for every random position/orientation of the target character.
In my example picture you see, that the character has got a specific hight above the reference ground and the pose needs a little x-rotation.
Given the case, the character is positioned directly on the ground (zero-level) for the new setup. If I apply the poses delivered in the Genesis basic bundle, the character gets all measures relatively to his starting position and orientation.
My problem is how to implement this behaviour for my own poses.
In the pose preset save dialog I can't find parameters to store translations and rotations relatively to the starting orientation/position of the target character. They ever result in absolute positioning. For the selection/manipulating tool I can switch between global and object coordinates. But not for the pose parameters.
Up to now I tried both: translation/rotation for the Character-Hip-General node or ony the Character-General one.
If using translations in the Character-General entries the target character finally moves to the same position of the creating scene independant of the new position of the target. Using the Character-Hip-General node didn't have any effect. The Genesis basic poses behave quite different (Example: leaping, running, sitting poses). So - how to do ??
Andy
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Comments
When saving poses...
In the Pose Preset Save window, go to the option menu in the upper left and choose "Select all rotations only"
If you need to add Translation as well for either the figure base or the hip, expand the property list for either and check off the translation box.
Hi Matty,
no, that definately won't work.
If your new character must have a different rotation orientation compared to the original one you created the pose with, it would turn into the direction of your creating character and not stay in the orientation necessary for the new scene. That was the point I despaired.
But what I found out shortly after creating the question:
In the scene tab and in the pose save parameters you see a node called "Hip". This node isn't selectable clicking on your character. It is only virtual and positioned somewhere inside the character between pelvis and abdomen. Think, it some kind of anchor. And it is the only character's node having x, y, z translation and rotation.
And - if you perform the necessary translations and rotations for the pose with the Hip node, instead of the character, the saved pose works with every position/orientation of your new character in every random new scene.
Andy
Everyone is differnt. The method I listed is what I use and its most critical for using it when doing poses with two or more people interacting with one another such as couple poses. I do not adjust hip translation because hip rotation affects hip translation.
No sorry,
the pure translation and rotation definatly don't work the moment, your character has a different position, especially in y-translation. And the second case is a jumping pose. Here the character must have a higher y-value after posing compared to his position when inserted from the content.
Your method allways generates an absolute positioning. That's where I despaired in trying. But I'm talking about relativ positioning for the posing. And this is only possible by hip translation / rotation.
So you may try the following:
Apply a pose to the character at the ground (at the origing in world coordinates). It should include a rotation of the body (x- and/or z-axis).
Store it.
Now apply the stored pose to the second character on the cube without any further moving of it.
If you succeed, please show a screenshot of your pose saving dialog. I'm eager to learn.
I think you are looking for the genesis figure (or whatever figure you are using) parameters. Don't uncheck the hip parameters when you save the pose, but uncheck the parameters for the figure: under the general tab of the hierarchy level above the hip.
(of course this only works if you use the hip to translate the figure upwards and left the figure parameters to zero)
I am aware of what both methods do and the ups and downs of both. Neither method is superior to the other or inferior but neither is perfect.
It just comes down to a matter of prefrence.
So Matty,
if I get you right, your method is not able to reproduce the pose that simple way . :-)
Load a default non-morphed figure. Create the pose you want.
Save As > Pose Preset
In the Popup window, go to the dropdown menu and select "Check Only > Check All Modified Only"
This will save the pose and all the settings exactly. The figure will move to the exact spot you want etc.... if you have included Rotations/Translations. (In your case, on the Y-axis)
If you DO NOT want the figure to move, make sure to create the pose, staying within the ZERO translation space. :) (i.e. keep their feet on the ground at "0")
This works with partial poses as well. Make sure to load a clean figure, pose only what you want to save...and repeat.
Hope that helps.
Hi Kat,
sorry, but as all other descriptions of the collegues, your suggestion don't work neither.
The moment you apply the stored pose to a new character on a random location in the scene, the character returns to the origin of the "world".
So as a fazit:
That really simple way I found seems to be the only universal solution.
I know what it is you seek but it cannot be done because there is no perfect universal method that will work for every situation that a pose can be used for. So please read and consdier the following.
When saving a pose, any data that is not recorded in a pose file, including the 0, means the pose may not work correctly if applied to a character that already has modified translations and rotations for any of the nodes. For example, if you apply a pose to a figure that contains body translation data and no hip translation data and then you apply another pose that contains only hip translation data and no body translation data then the character does not end up where it should. Its either sitting too high, too low or off center from where you want it to be. So if you had a pose that raised a figure 100 cm high with body y trans and another pose that raised the figure 100cm high using hip y trans and you applied one after the other to your figure, your figure would now by 200cm high. Not where you want it to be.
While there is no prefect solution for everyone, the best suggestion I have to date would be to parent the figure to a null and then move the null to where the figure needs to be and apply the pose. The null become the center point of the scene for the figure regardless of where in the scene it is. So you should be able to cycle through as many poses as you wish with little correction. This even works with couples poses as long as both figures are parented to the null.
Hmmm....It shouldn't. :) If the translations weren't changed, those won't be selected, and therefor should have no affect on the placement. In this image, I saved a pose (with only Y-Axis affected). I added a 2nd figure and placed a cube for reference.
I applied the pose. You can see the figure stayed over the cube and didn't return to the original location.
Unless I am misunderstanding exactly what you want.....
Here is Sasquatch with the same saved pose applied. The cube is at "zero" for reference. Sas was moved to the back of my scene, and then I applied the pose. He raised off the ground (Y-Axis was saved out in the pose, but no other translations as they were not changed - following the original post example I gave....), but Sas didn't return to Zero. He stayed where I moved him.
Hi Matty,
Exactly. You can never guarantee that the character you use for creating the new pos, did have no changed translation/rotation out of former usage.
The best reference how a pose should work are the poses delivered with the Genesis and Genesis2 basic bundle.
It really doesn't matter, where and in what hight the character is positioned. If you apply one of those poses, the character takes the pose exactly in that place, you positioned him.
And this is independant, what other pose he had previously. And exactly the same way my method works.
@Kat:
In your explanation you forgot, that the pose stores all x-, y- and z-translation, even it is 0. So if you store a pose with a character in the origin and applies it to a different character somewhere in the scene, the posed character returns to the 0-point, because DAZ stores it although you selected the option "changed only".
With a second experiment, I verfied it. And it seems that moment you (perhaps accidetially) perform a translation of your character while creating the pose, DAZ see a changed transaltion, which results to an absolute positioning of every character the pose is applied to.
So only in the case, the Character-General-Translation parameters are unchecked, it can work as you described.
In consequence:
If you create a jumping pose with the resulting hight (as translation) <> 0 compared to the unposed state, every character getting this pose ends in the same hight of your creating character, independant what different hight he started. DAZ can't store relative translations.
So the only way it works properly, is the very primitive method I found. And even if I apply one of the Genesis standard poses afterwards, they still work fine.
Works in general yes, 100% proper, no. The method you're using only works fine IF you never apply multiple poses in a row. Even if all you poses are saved the same way there is no promise that the Hip trans will not move your character from where you want it. While body trans may not be affacted on some poses appling multiple poses in a row that all depend on hip trans can have some odd affects as to where your character ends up. I am not trying to argue anything, I just want to point out what will occur with this method.
HiMatty,
:-)
Anyhow 100 times better than searching for your character after it completely jumped out of your new scene after applying a pose created the old-fashioned way.