The Headaches of comics with 3D applications

_DWM72_

If somebody has some experience, comments or suggestions with 3D comics, please let me hear it. I show some examples that I made... The colour version was an experiment made in 2008.

_DWM72_

Hmmm, I guess I got my answer with the 'reactions' what concerns 3d comics.... I have my doubts about the future of these comics now... too bad, they also are the most expensive method to tell your story :(

carrie58

Ummm you might want to ask the question about 3d comics in the Commons rather than here in Art Studio ,you would probably get more responses .......and sometimes it does take longer then you 'd like to get a response ,you know that thing known as real life ......and different time zones ......I'll stop talking now

_DWM72_

Meh... more then 120 views, a week has passed... Maybe you're right, but I wanted to know if it was good enough or not and maybe open a discussion or some tips... etc. But to tell you the truth, I had forgotten this post already... thanks to real life....

Jaderail

Not that many use the software to do Comic's in this forum. As noted above it would probably get more comments in the Commons as that Forum is visited by a much larger cross section of users than the Art Studio is. The Art Studio is designed to be more a showcase of work done or Works In Progress like a portfolio than other forums.

The only thing I could offer on your Comic work is that your character style is going to be limited unless you are hand doing those face and body shapes, I do like the visual effect that you have filtered the images to, it looks very good. Is it based on Depth Map style? I once tried my hand at a super hero comic done in 3D. I soon learned the Render output requirements were impossible for me to met on a monthly bases. Once you factor in Time to render each image, format each page, panel it, add in word Balloons and Blurb boxes with effect Blurbs. You need a full 8 hour day per page or longer. I just could not keep up that pace day in and day out. Not even for the standard 22 to 24 page comic.

And Yes sometimes it takes a bit of time before things get noticed in the forums. Many people follow the things that interest them first and then come back to other things as Time allows. As I just have done. This even happens in the Forums with high traffic. Please feel free to keep posting here as I do find the topic of interest but my time only allows me to do so much per day.

carrie58

I knew I had seen another thread on Comics in the Commons ,maybe this will help http://www.daz3d.com/forums/discussion/36615/

Chohole

We had quite a long thread on Comics in the Art Studio on the old forum. Not really certain why it hasn't taken off again here.

Themed threads as well did well there, but not so much now, Again not sure why. Themed threads are fun.

_DWM72_

Jaderail said:

Not that many use the software to do Comic's in this forum. As noted above it would probably get more comments in the Commons as that Forum is visited by a much larger cross section of users than the Art Studio is. The Art Studio is designed to be more a showcase of work done or Works In Progress like a portfolio than other forums.

The only thing I could offer on your Comic work is that your character style is going to be limited unless you are hand doing those face and body shapes, I do like the visual effect that you have filtered the images to, it looks very good. Is it based on Depth Map style? I once tried my hand at a super hero comic done in 3D. I soon learned the Render output requirements were impossible for me to met on a monthly bases. Once you factor in Time to render each image, format each page, panel it, add in word Balloons and Blurb boxes with effect Blurbs. You need a full 8 hour day per page or longer. I just could not keep up that pace day in and day out. Not even for the standard 22 to 24 page comic.

And Yes sometimes it takes a bit of time before things get noticed in the forums. Many people follow the things that interest them first and then come back to other things as Time allows. As I just have done. This even happens in the Forums with high traffic. Please feel free to keep posting here as I do find the topic of interest but my time only allows me to do so much per day.

It's true that the chartacters are limited, but luckily enough you can mix genesis models and I build up a big dial library.

The visual effects were done with FotoSketcher that you can find at http://www.fotosketcher.com/

Rendering is for me no problem. In the past I could only draw a page a week and my drawings were terrible. But with my new way I could produce three pages or more a week, all done with 3D programs.

Thanks for your reply.

_DWM72_

carrie58 said:

I knew I had seen another thread on Comics in the Commons ,maybe this will help http://www.daz3d.com/forums/discussion/36615/

Thanks, it was very useful.

Jaderail

DWM72 said:

It's true that the chartacters are limited, but luckily enough you can mix genesis models and I build up a big dial library.

The visual effects were done with FotoSketcher that you can find at http://www.fotosketcher.com/

Rendering is for me no problem. In the past I could only draw a page a week and my drawings were terrible. But with my new way I could produce three pages or more a week, all done with 3D programs.

Thanks for your reply.

I did mostly think you were hand dialing those from some base figures, well done and a unique style you will have from others, that's a big plus. Having things that others do not is a draw in the comic world.
Thanks for the Info on PhotoSketcher, I think I have a PSP plugin very much like it but I'm not out to copy your style, it was more a comment that I liked it and it suited your work very well.
I was more trying in my attempt to do the standard full comic a month thing and that is a average of 22 to 26 or more graphic pages a month and the cover art. That was the pace I was not able to keep to.
Question for you: Have you seen the latest versions of ComicLife? I find it to be very good for layout and Blurb processing now. Its not very pricey for what all it can do, but then its no MangaStudio either. I do plan to still do my comic project once my skills reach the point I can create a couple of rather none standard figures I need. The New Genesis Based figures and many of the new Geo-Graft add-on's have helped me get very close to what I need. A Few more details that just have not been done yet are needed. I may have to suck it up and create one or two of those myself.
Keep up the good work and enjoy yourself, if its not fun to do its just work, I prefer to play than to work. LOL.

_DWM72_

Jaderail said:

I did mostly think you were hand dialing those from some base figures, well done and a unique style you will have from others, that's a big plus. Having things that others do not is a draw in the comic world.
Thanks for the Info on PhotoSketcher, I think I have a PSP plugin very much like it but I'm not out to copy your style, it was more a comment that I liked it and it suited your work very well.
I was more trying in my attempt to do the standard full comic a month thing and that is a average of 22 to 26 or more graphic pages a month and the cover art. That was the pace I was not able to keep to.
Question for you: Have you seen the latest versions of ComicLife? I find it to be very good for layout and Blurb processing now. Its not very pricey for what all it can do, but then its no MangaStudio either. I do plan to still do my comic project once my skills reach the point I can create a couple of rather none standard figures I need. The New Genesis Based figures and many of the new Geo-Graft add-on's have helped me get very close to what I need. A Few more details that just have not been done yet are needed. I may have to suck it up and create one or two of those myself.
Keep up the good work and enjoy yourself, if its not fun to do its just work, I prefer to play than to work. LOL.

I have seen Comic Life. I saw also a version on my iPad, but since I have Manga Studio, I didn't look further. I seems that it is more based on western comics. The script system looks very good and it has a few nice effects to convert your pictures. But it's no Manga Studio indeed. :-)

Thanks, I hope to produce something great. I will also post a few interesting questions in the commons in the future :-)

Takeo.Kensei

Hi

I don't really have any experiment in 3D comics but rather with hand drawn comics

What I'll say here is no absolute truth, just my opinion

The three pages are ok. I prefer the black and white ones. From the few samples, I'd say yours seem less 3D made than others I have seen. And that is a plus in my view

What is important in comics is the story, the page layout, and the way you are telling your story

Comic life is a good tool but I find it a bit too rigid so you can't do all the thing you'd want to for layouts and bubles.

Now concerning 3D figures in general, my biggest critic would be concerning character expressions. These are very flat compared to what you can do with a pen

Second point would be that 3D rendering for comics barely play with shadows and highlight to give some atmosphere or feeling and that make the reading very boring especially if the story isn't captivating

RawArt

I think one of the hardest parts in making comics from renders is how to deal with the uncanny valley.
Not that we really achieve that much realism in our renders with the sets here, but moreso the fact that for comics, we seem to need even lower levels of realism in order to feel comfortable with them.
So developing a suitable "style" from what is offered here is where the challenge comes in.
That said, I think you are doing a great job with what you have posted.

_DWM72_

Takeo.Kensei said:

Hi

I don't really have any experiment in 3D comics but rather with hand drawn comics

What I'll say here is no absolute truth, just my opinion

The three pages are ok. I prefer the black and white ones. From the few samples, I'd say yours seem less 3D made than others I have seen. And that is a plus in my view

What is important in comics is the story, the page layout, and the way you are telling your story

Comic life is a good tool but I find it a bit too rigid so you can't do all the thing you'd want to for layouts and bubles.

Now concerning 3D figures in general, my biggest critic would be concerning character expressions. These are very flat compared to what you can do with a pen

Second point would be that 3D rendering for comics barely play with shadows and highlight to give some atmosphere or feeling and that make the reading very boring especially if the story isn't captivating

Thanks.

I'm aware about the problems with expressions, especially the comically expressions. It must be done by hand... there's no other solution for it.

The light and shadows is big issue. I would have preferred the 'anime' color version with 'hand painted' backgrounds, but because I use different 3D tools, the difference would be too obvious. It will just not work in color. That's a problem that I need to work on.

And for the story, I don't think that it will be a big obstacle. :-) The problem is patience and not loosing interest in it, which is mostly the greatest problem with many amateurs. Fanfiction is nice example of that :-)

_DWM72_

RawArt said:

I think one of the hardest parts in making comics from renders is how to deal with the uncanny valley.
Not that we really achieve that much realism in our renders with the sets here, but moreso the fact that for comics, we seem to need even lower levels of realism in order to feel comfortable with them.
So developing a suitable "style" from what is offered here is where the challenge comes in.
That said, I think you are doing a great job with what you have posted.

Thanks. :-)

No repeating a Final Fantasy movie for me!

nDelphi

I like the black and white images. They seem to be unique. I am working on graphic novels, mainly stuck on the writing and I have dabbled a lot with shaders. In the end I decided to stick with pwToon, mainly because it will mean a lot less work for me when it comes time to render the frames. It will still be time consuming, but not as much as with the other shaders.

Takeo.Kensei is correct in that shadows make a big difference and even character expressions too me is the biggest issue. I will have to get creative in Photoshop to add lines by hand to bring out the expressions in my characters.

Here's a thread I started about shadows not showing up in pwToon, turns out it was user error. :)

http://www.daz3d.com/forums/viewreply/642993/

Takeo.Kensei

Actually there are some good shading tech inside DS for NPR rendering but that may not be sufficient

I came across some NPR rendering examples at https://blendernpr.org

Just watch some examples and demos. I find some of them impressive. If I was to do some NPR rendering, I'd choose freestyle for sure.

_DWM72_

nDelphi said:

I like the black and white images. They seem to be unique. I am working on graphic novels, mainly stuck on the writing and I have dabbled a lot with shaders. In the end I decided to stick with pwToon, mainly because it will mean a lot less work for me when it comes time to render the frames. It will still be time consuming, but not as much as with the other shaders.

Takeo.Kensei is correct in that shadows make a big difference and even character expressions too me is the biggest issue. I will have to get creative in Photoshop to add lines by hand to bring out the expressions in my characters.

Here's a thread I started about shadows not showing up in pwToon, turns out it was user error. :)

http://www.daz3d.com/forums/viewreply/642993/

I use pwToon as well, it's a great tool. I have to fiddle with some of the line adjustments to get them thicker but it looks good in black and white.

A few years back I had a lot of trouble with the cartoon look in Poser, and found a solution that I still use with DAZ 3D. I wrote a tutorial for it.

http://www.renderosity.com/mod/tutorial/index.php?tutorial_id=2139

For DAZ 3D, I use still UberEnvironment2 for this trick with Ambient (No Ray Tracing) Environment Mode.

_DWM72_

Takeo.Kensei said:

Actually there are some good shading tech inside DS for NPR rendering but that may not be sufficient

I came across some NPR rendering examples at https://blendernpr.org

Just watch some examples and demos. I find some of them impressive. If I was to do some NPR rendering, I'd choose freestyle for sure.

Looks very impressive. Especially the Venetian view. The only drawback, the 3D objects needs a lot of details and textures are replaced with base colors. It's a good idea for illustrations, but for comics, well, that could be very time consuming.

Scott Livingston

Yeah, with comics I think you need...that is, one needs to find one's own style...something with an internal consistency. With 3D, one of the questions is, do you go for a faux-handrawn look, or something more clearly digital (Visual Novel-style, or Pixar-style, etc.). It can take some time, from what I understand, but I think you're on the right track.

I like what you've got so far, especially the landscapes. FotoSketcher is a nice tool; I enjoy working with it also.