Which machine ?
porthos62
Posts: 48
I have an ageing Apple MACbook pro and a windows XP machine.
I need to upgrade one of them.
Which 'new' machine would be best to run Carrara 8.5 pro (64 bit) . iMAC or Windows 8 ?
Thanks in advance
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Comments
One is a laptop. The other is a desktop? They aren't really interchangeable.
Do you spend more time rendering or more time setting up your scenes? Any reason you can't use both?
You can (maybe) upgrade the XP machine's GPU.
Hi. Thanks for the reply.
I use my mac for everything but its getting so sloooow and Carrara locks up quite often running under mavericks (again suspect its the machine not Carrara). and is showing its age (over 6 years now). But replacing it will cost a fortune if I stick with apple.
I use the windows machine as a render node sometimes when I'm producing animation sequences
Gut feeling is to stick with the Mac providing Daz continue to support Carrara it on that platform.
Breaks piggy bank ...
Thanks :-)
I have a Dell running XP that gets no love.
Mac all the way... :)
A Mac can run Windows, natively, so you can still have the Mac you love and a Windows machine as an extra if needed.
Mac all the way here. I have the 2012 iMac (basically the same as the current) and it is awesome. The newer versions have a better Fusion drive that should make it scream. Just make sure to get the i7 version; it runs circles around the i5, but costs a tad more. 16GB RAM would be a good idea, too. Both options are available on both 21 and 27 inch models. If you go 27, you can really trick it out.
I should mention: my 27" iMac runs almost completely silently, even when maxing out the CPUs on a heavy render. It's also very stable; Carrara does have a couple of bugs but nothing that bugs me (ha!) other than the broken render node functionality.
Windows running on a Mac - oh the agony, I'd never subject it to that. !
I use a Windows PC all day at work and my 'old' MAC still wins every time.
My MacBook pro has been amazing for the past 6 years. But I know it's time to upgrade, especially as my Carrara work has increased and it is really struggling.
Sadly not many UK Apple stores seem to stock the i7 so I shall have to order online. I'd love the 27 but 21.5 will be my max due to space limitations. Agreed that 16gb is a must.
Thanks for the information. Gets more tempting by the minute .... :-)
@Holly .. thanks Mac lover, lol. :-)
Windows running on a Mac - oh the agony, I'd never subject it to that. !
I'd love the 27 but 21.5 will be my max due to space limitations. Agreed that 16gb is a must.
On the first point, I agree; was just pointing out the possibility. I haven't used windows in over a decade and even then iyt was only at work and only once a month, but it was a horrid experience. The screen. The screen. Pixels.
On the second, can certainly appreciate lack of space. If you have never given it any thought, an arm could be useful. I got one a couple of months ago for a second display and know for certain that my next iMac upgrade will be with a VESA mount (not the standard model). It gets everything off the desk and just makes life so much nicer. Sadly, this is a choice you have to make when ordering the machine and can't be altered later, or my current machine wouldn't be sitting on a pack of printer paper.
BTW, a new iMac would leave your "old" Macbook Pro in the dust when rendering, and it doesn't get hot.
Hi. just kidding on the 1st point, I know what you meant :-)
The arm sounds good, but my work area is pretty limited and I'm not sure it would help me.
I think I'd rather go for a full blow 21.5 i7 16gb than a lower spec 27 - and keep within my funds.
I really hope DAZ continues with developing Carrara, the recent update with the PostgreSQL/Valentina really confused me when my downloaded content disappeared. Daz support was good but gave no long term solution to the Carrara/Daz content problems.
It would be good if it also supported Genesis 2 correctly as well.
I do get the impression that it takes a back seat to Daz Studio, which is a shame as Carrara meets my needs and the ability to use Daz content (when I can locate it) is great.
Thanks for you reply. Good to know there are helpful users out there.
:-)
I hear the worry over Carrara. Fortunately, it works well enough for me and I can keep it running in this fashion for some time ( a couple of years) if needed. I do wish they would fix the render node issue.
There were rumours a while back about a version 9 but they faded away. 8.5 has never been updated, so I dunno.
Yes. likewise, it works for me too. I have found the more I use Carrara, the more I like it and want to try new ideas. I spend far too much downloading DAZ content!
I read the forum posts quite often and have not heard much about version 9 recently ... mmmm.. finger crossed it happens.
I've been using it on and off since version 5 but only really got into it on a regular basis with 8.5pro. I'd wouldn't want to learn something else!
Using it on a Surface Pro 2 with just the pen, and seems pretty responsive!
I have always stuck with Windows, simply because I can then pick and choose my own hardware. For my Carrara endeavors, I don't really need a high-end (High Cost) video card, but I would like to have as many cores as I can get under the same roof. When I tried looking at MAC multi-core machines, I found that I didn't even have to build my own to get a lot less expensive. Off-the-shelf systems are putting out multiple core cpu machines for a fraction of the price of a similarly built Mac.
I have friends and relatives that tell me that the added price is worth it. But when it comes down to them explaining, in detail, 'why' they are 'better', I never get a clear answer. More like a Chevy vs. Ford discussion than anything useful for me to consider upon the spending of an extra few thousand dollars!
Using Newegg.com, and further searches to check out compatibility, I built my own Carrara Workstation for less than $1,000 including Windows 7 64 bit (this was before Win 8), and the thing renders like a dream, having an eight-core AMD PC processor. I went with a PC-class desktop instead of a Server-Class station to keep the cost down, while Server-Class motherboards would have afforded me the possibility of using two eight (or more, now) core cpus. So if I had the extra money to afford a Mac, at the time, I would have instead built a sixteen core Server=Class workstation.
There are things you can do when ordering a Mac to keep prices down. I don't know about the current generations, and how hard it is to do stuff, but it used to be common to advise people to buy their own RAM instead of Apple's RAM. The same went for some of the hardware choices such as additional hard drives and the like.
Another big myth is the price differences. If you buy all your components off of the web, and assemble your own, then compare a high end Sony or Alienware PC, the price difference either gets much smaller or vanishes entirely. Comparing a home brewed machine to a Mac is like comparing Apples to Oranges.
There's nothing wrong with a homebuilt machine, but some people would rather spend their time using the computer, rather than doing hours of research on component compatibility, risking sketchy quality from bargain basement generic parts, hunting down drivers, etc. And then you still have to buy the OS if you don't have it already.
According to some people, the new Mac Pro could be 10% cheaper than a DIY Windows machine... even before considering software, stability and viruses. To me, the latter are very important. The appearance of the OS is, too; Windows just looks unrefined. Once you jump in to the various apps, that mostly changes, but the OS still oozes through in the form of menus.
Personally, I bought a Mac way back in the '80s (before there even was a Windows) and have never looked back.
10% cheaper than DIY would certainly push me towards trying out the infamous MAC OS, to be sure. I am a big fan of the technology they've used in building those new MAC Pro Workstations.
Again, I certainly tried to make it obvious that I'm not saying that my way is the better way. I simply could not purchase a MAC with what I needed inside of it at the time when I built my own Windows PC. But the other big consideration for me would be that I'd need a lot of new software. I like my Windows solutions, as that's what I'm used to.
If it works, stay with it.
Changing platforms could be very expensive... from a software point of view. Depending of course on what a person's needs are.
Macs can run both Mac OS and Windows, natively, so you could go that route.
Ha. I'm just a big Mac guy and should get a commission from Apple for my efforts at bringing people over! (or at least a discount on hardware!)
With the new Mac Pro, Apple leveraged the GPU for their movie app, Final Cut Pro X, making it pretty snappy. If 3D apps like Carrara could do the same, rendering would really fly.
The maker of one Mac only 3D app has already announced that their app will use the GPUs sometime later this year. So a 6-core machine with D700s (what I consider the sweet spot of the pricing versus overall performance) would be a mean lean rendering machine.
I've got the i5 spec 27" iMac, and it runs Carrara perfectly fine. Certainly for non-rendering tasks I don't need anything more powerful, and for rendering... well, I've never had an i7, so I can't miss what I haven't had, right?
The one thing I WOULD change if I could start over, is to get a fusion drive. Unfortunately, at the time the only non-mechanical option that allowed Windows (and I needed Windows for work at the time) was 1TB, which was definitely too small. But I think there are after market solutions that work via the thunderbolt port.
The mechanical hard drive slows the system down dramatically, as it introduces long pauses while it spins the drive up I have a Macbook Air, which is also an i5 (but slower), but it positively screams along in comparison, and that's due entirely to the SSD.
The current iMacs are not upgradeable, and that's a bad move by Apple, IMHO.
I'd love one of the new "trash can" Mac Pros, but no way I could afford one, even with the ibooks publisher discount.
I have a 2012 iMac 27 (i7) and a new Mac Pro (6-core, D700s) and an older Mac mini. If Daz would fix the render node problem under Mavericks (don't know about Yosemite), I would have an awesome render farm.
*Like*
(the forum needs a like button!)
Infamous?!? Now Dart, that's a loaded word with unjustified negative connotations. From the press I have read about Windows 8's new interface, it seems "infamous" is better suited to that.
So what is borked about the render nodes? Does Carrara not see them, or is it something else?
LOL
No negative connotations intended!
You're missing me and Garstor's mature discussion of a new iPad "toy," via e-mail. Makes this look tame by a thousand-fold. Don't worry, it's all in filthy fun!
So what is borked about the render nodes? Does Carrara not see them, or is it something else?
They see each other but nothing happens. Daz knows of and admits the problem (contacted them in October 2013). They told me to do a full install on the node machine and render under the regular app. A little bit of a hassle, but it works. Just I hesitate even trying some things while playing around; rendering a Howie Fawkes scene is only a task for the Mac Pro!
Poser works fine.
Compressor works fine.
So, it can be fixed. I just hope they (Daz) do so soon.
I don't know if the problem continues under Yosemite or not.
They see each other but nothing happens. Daz knows of and admits the problem (contacted them in October 2013).
Poser works fine.
Compressor works fine.
So, it can be fixed. I just hope they (Daz) do so soon.
I don't know if the problem continues under Yosemite or not.
Wow! That would be an absolute deal killer for me. Network rendering is one of the major reasons why I bought Carrara Pro in the first place. Genesis was really a non-starter for me as I refuse to have to use Studio to even use Genesis in Carrara, so I wasn't that inclined to go to C8.5 in the first place. There were some other improvements I would have liked to have aside from Genesis, but if the nodes failed, it would have been returned instantly.
Yep. I was really impressed with the render node while it worked (before I updated to Mavericks). It made things really fast and easy, so I experimented a lot. Now I am careful about what to render as I know it will take time. Or I split projects into smaller parts and combine later. I have even chosen to go 2D over 3D as I know my 2D app renders super fast, but that calls for a different style.
It has been eight months (almost a year more than that if you consider the developer version) so I really hope Daz will push out a fix soon. Or Carrara 9? Heh heh.
I have been very positive about it all, but my requests for updates on the issue have gone unanswered to since January 1. I have a lot invested in characters and stuff from the Daz store and things pretty much do what I need them to do, but I will admit that I am always looking at other possibilities.
Thanks to all that have replied. Given me a lot to think about !
@Dartanbeck - I use your Woodlands and Badlands sets for a lot of my renders - Brilliant, saves so much time
:-)
For what it's worth.
I own a Mac Mini, a P.C. i7 with win 7 pro, a i5 laptop, and at work in a office with 4 Mac Pro eight cores.
I don't have Carrara installed on the work computers, but I do have version 8.1 ( I have bought 8.5 and installed it just haven't bothered to switch yet because carrara 8.1 does what I need) installed on both my Mac and My P.C's.
I am very happy with Carrara running on the P.C.'s which I use as my main machine because my mac mini is only a dual core.
I also do heavy video editing using Vegas Pro on my P.C. These days windows seems very stable to me.
I do long animation renders on it. I can't really speak for win 8 but 7 seems fine. I'm i7 I got on a sale for less then $700.00
I have worked with both Mac's and P.C.'s for many years, and windows really isn't bad like it used to be.
B
('Dartan' was meant as a pronunciation towards Dartagnan, the nickname my Wife calls me)
I originally built those systems for my own needs and goals. I added a lot to them by the time they've become what they are now. I'm really glad to hear that you find them to be useful! I use them all the time, myself! ;)
Thanks Porthos!
8068,
Thanks for that report. I'm really happy with Win7 64 bit as well, and I'm only using Home Premium instead of Pro, since I didn't see a need for the Pro version.