Animation tuts?

shaykall

I am having some troubles with animation in Bryce, can someone suggest or direct me to so tutorials on animating and rendering out the movies please?

Thanks in advance

Dave Savage

One of the tutorial guys will be along soon enough.
What issues were you having though? It would help a lot to know as animation can be complex and various tutorials will cover different aspects..

cris333

http://www.robinwood.com/Catalog/Technical/BryceTuts/BryceClasses/IBryce1/IBryceLesson1-1.html

i don't know if Bryce Artist Guide or how much is treating the animation subject but take a look on the official guide too.

LordHardDriven

Did you look at that link to numberous tutorials I gave you in the other thread about the problems you were having transfering a scene from studio?

http://www.bryce-tutorials.info/bryce-tutorials.html

It has

How to Use Bryce : Doing Basic Animation in Bryce

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=O_-Fa7a3d90&feature=plcp

Intermediate Bryce 5 - Lesson One, Animation Basics

http://www.robinwood.com/Catalog/Technical/BryceTuts/BryceClasses/IBryce1/IBryceLesson1-1.html

Intermediate Bryce 5 - Lesson Two, Continuing Animation

http://www.robinwood.com/Catalog/Technical/BryceTuts/BryceClasses/IBryce2/IBryceLesson2-1.html

Bryce #02: Beginning Animation

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=8WYg1swDORI&list=PL9580B6A57092DEDB&index=2&feature=plpp_video

Bryce #11: Animation Part II (Working with the Camera)

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=kImbxrWu37A&list=PL9580B6A57092DEDB&index=11&feature=plpp_video

Beginner Level Keyframe Animation

http://www.video-tutes.com/Tute_details_1526.htm

Add Multi-Replicate to Keyframe Animation

http://www.video-tutes.com/Tute_details_1527.htm

Create and Animate a Tunnel

http://www.video-tutes.com/Tute_details_1531.htm

There are probably a few others without obvious titles but I just looked for the ones that mentioned animation in the title.

shaykall

LordHardDriven said:

Did you look at that link to numberous tutorials I gave you in the other thread about the problems you were having transfering a scene from studio?

http://www.bryce-tutorials.info/bryce-tutorials.html

It has

How to Use Bryce : Doing Basic Animation in Bryce

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=O_-Fa7a3d90&feature=plcp

Intermediate Bryce 5 - Lesson One, Animation Basics

http://www.robinwood.com/Catalog/Technical/BryceTuts/BryceClasses/IBryce1/IBryceLesson1-1.html

Intermediate Bryce 5 - Lesson Two, Continuing Animation

http://www.robinwood.com/Catalog/Technical/BryceTuts/BryceClasses/IBryce2/IBryceLesson2-1.html

Bryce #02: Beginning Animation

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=8WYg1swDORI&list=PL9580B6A57092DEDB&index=2&feature=plpp_video

Bryce #11: Animation Part II (Working with the Camera)

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=kImbxrWu37A&list=PL9580B6A57092DEDB&index=11&feature=plpp_video

Beginner Level Keyframe Animation

http://www.video-tutes.com/Tute_details_1526.htm

Add Multi-Replicate to Keyframe Animation

http://www.video-tutes.com/Tute_details_1527.htm

Create and Animate a Tunnel

http://www.video-tutes.com/Tute_details_1531.htm

There are probably a few others without obvious titles but I just looked for the ones that mentioned animation in the title.

Through those links you gave me in the other thread I did manage to sort out most of the problems with transferring from D/S to Bryce.

I have looked a while ago at a tutorial or two regarding animating in Bryce but having troubles especially rendering out the actual movie.

Thank you for the above links, will go through them, and work on the rendering again, if I still have the problem will come back and ask again..

shaykall

Need to make a small apology, I am not having so much trouble with the actual animation, I have done a little bit (am working on more)
my troubles are the actual rendering of an animation,

Below is a pic of the end result of a render to AVI, it is black and white and has some crazy clipping and angle, it takes about 2 hours and this is the end result and they always come out like this, I use the default settings .
What am I missing ?

I also tried rendering to BMP Sequence but I then have an issue in how do I join them to make a movie ? that is why I was asking about tutorials, I think I saw somewhere this particular tutorial showing what to do with the images to create a reasonable video clip.

I am attempting something which I may need help on in the future :)

Thanks in advance

Dave Savage

Could you post a screen grab of your animation render settings. It would help a lot.

Your result isn't something I've ever seen before, but I always output animation to Quicktime files. :-)

shaykall

TheSavage64 said:

Could you post a screen grab of your animation render settings. It would help a lot.

Your result isn't something I've ever seen before, but I always output animation to Quicktime files. :-)

Hi MAte
every animation render I have done has always come out like that.
Is this the settings you mean?

Dave Savage

Hi. Well that's a start.
What do the settings look like if you click the EDIT button?
Also, I don't know if it will be relevant but what video editing software are you putting the clips together in?
From what I see on your still from your animation, it almost looks like the same kind of thing you used to get on old videos if you tried to play a PAL video on an NTSC system, so I was just wondering if you needed a different codec.

One thing you could try in Bryce is the 'Preview Animation' button. But I guess that if you just render a single frame, it looks OK and this problem is only when you actually render the animation to AVI file... Which would have to be either the animation render settings or your editing/viewing software not fully understanding the file correctly.

shaykall

TheSavage64 said:

Hi. Well that's a start.
What do the settings look like if you click the EDIT button?
Also, I don't know if it will be relevant but what video editing software are you putting the clips together in?
From what I see on your still from your animation, it almost looks like the same kind of thing you used to get on old videos if you tried to play a PAL video on an NTSC system, so I was just wondering if you needed a different codec.

One thing you could try in Bryce is the 'Preview Animation' button. But I guess that if you just render a single frame, it looks OK and this problem is only when you actually render the animation to AVI file... Which would have to be either the animation render settings or your editing/viewing software not fully understanding the file correctly.

At the moment I am not using anything to put the clips together, and with the AVI rendering Kantaris media player is the program that opens when the rendering is finished.
I will setup and render the avi again, but this is the settings you asked for

Dave Savage

Yes, that's the one thanks.
OK, you may realise I'm working blind here, because I use Bryce on a Mac so there are no AVI output settings on my system.
What I really needed to see were the compression options you have with AVI.

Also, Do you have the very latest version of Kantaris?
Apparently earlier versions were very 'buggy', not that I'm trying to shift the blame or anything, but it's always better to rule these things out as we go.

How big is your original .avi animation file size?

Could you take a frame from halfway through your animation and render it as a single still (.jpg) so we can rule out that the problem is in your render quality settings.

Sorry for all the questions, but unless someone comes along who's seen this before and knows the solution, we are going to have to just rule stuff out until we find the problem. :-)

shaykall

TheSavage64 said:

Yes, that's the one thanks.
OK, you may realise I'm working blind here, because I use Bryce on a Mac so there are no AVI output settings on my system.
What I really needed to see were the compression options you have with AVI.

Also, Do you have the very latest version of Kantaris?
Apparently earlier versions were very 'buggy', not that I'm trying to shift the blame or anything, but it's always better to rule these things out as we go.

How big is your original .avi animation file size?

Could you take a frame from halfway through your animation and render it as a single still (.jpg) so we can rule out that the problem is in your render quality settings.

Sorry for all the questions, but unless someone comes along who's seen this before and knows the solution, we are going to have to just rule stuff out until we find the problem. :-)

I have been doing a little investigating, something you said in your previous post "tried to play a PAL video on an NTSC system, so I was just wondering if you needed a different codec. , also about having the latest version of Kantaris.
I re rendered the AVI, and opened it in different programmes,
It works ok in
DivX Player
Irfanview
Media Player
Quicktime
Realplayer

But after checking the latest versions, it doesn't work in
Kantaris
VLC
So I assume its either something to do with codecs (which is a little over my head) or just that these 2 programmes don't work with this files,.

But will do some more investigating

Oroboros

Looks like a codec problem.

I've seen this problem before in VLC, but this is the first I've heard of your Kantaris app. I'm not sure what the problem is: it could be that Bryce's AVI algorithm is very old and not keeping up with later playback options, or the reverse: Kantaris and VLC are no longer supporting 'straight' AVI.

It's not strictly the AVI format that's at fault: basically, AVI is a sequential series of full, uncompressed screenshots. But many players these days might be looking for additional header information about the file that allows smoother playback.

Also, dimensions and compression may be a problem. The AVI format is fine, but is uncompressed, meaning you can be flicking a god-awful amount of pixel information at the screen per second, causing performance issues. Some players may be optimised to play footage at specific sizes and ratios. The common sizes are:

640 x 480px (SD, or VGA)
720 x 576px (PAL)
720 x 480px (NTSC)
640 x 360px (16:9, 360p)
852 x 480px (16:9, 480p)
1280 x 720 px (16:9, 720p)
1920 x 1080px (16:9, 1080p)

Try adjusting your doc size to 720p, see if that removes the problem.

shaykall

Oroboros said:

Looks like a codec problem.

I've seen this problem before in VLC, but this is the first I've heard of your Kantaris app. I'm not sure what the problem is: it could be that Bryce's AVI algorithm is very old and not keeping up with later playback options, or the reverse: Kantaris and VLC are no longer supporting 'straight' AVI.

It's not strictly the AVI format that's at fault: basically, AVI is a sequential series of full, uncompressed screenshots. But many players these days might be looking for additional header information about the file that allows smoother playback.

Also, dimensions and compression may be a problem. The AVI format is fine, but is uncompressed, meaning you can be flicking a god-awful amount of pixel information at the screen per second, causing performance issues. Some players may be optimised to play footage at specific sizes and ratios. The common sizes are:

640 x 480px (SD, or VGA)
720 x 576px (PAL)
720 x 480px (NTSC)
640 x 360px (16:9, 360p)
852 x 480px (16:9, 480p)
1280 x 720 px (16:9, 720p)
1920 x 1080px (16:9, 1080p)

Try adjusting your doc size to 720p, see if that removes the problem.

G'day from South Oz,

I will fire up the file again and follow your advice and change the do size, If I can't find the file I will run another one..

Oroboros

...So how'd it go?

shaykall

Oroboros said:

...So how'd it go?

Sorry for not getting back sooner, I have been tinkering with producing Anaglyph images as well, also tried to get my head around the DTE but I think that has me beaten.

I followed your suggestion and reduced the size of the document for the animation, I had it set to maximum, but changed it to 720 X 421, then re rendered the animation, it worked.

Kantaris Media player opened and the AVI was OK, I ran it a couple of times, I even closed the player down and clicked on the file itself and it opened up and played ok, I then opened it up in VLC Player (the other player that gave me issues) and it worked as well.

So reducing the document size removes the issues, your the animation guru, does this give any inkling as to the problem?

Now I can work on a better animation now.

Oroboros

shaykall said:

I followed your suggestion and reduced the size of the document for the animation, I had it set to maximum, but changed it to 720 X 421, then re rendered the animation, it worked.

Kantaris Media player opened and the AVI was OK, I ran it a couple of times, I even closed the player down and clicked on the file itself and it opened up and played ok, I then opened it up in VLC Player (the other player that gave me issues) and it worked as well.

So reducing the document size removes the issues, your the animation guru, does this give any inkling as to the problem?

Happy to help.

... You say you reduced the document size? What was it before? "Maximum" is 4000px square... Which is 16,000,000 pixels of 24-bit imagery you're trying to cram on a screen that would have 2000x1600 pixels or less, roughly.

If this is the case, and the frame rate is as you had it in the screenshots prior, your main problem is that you were trying to deliver more information to your screen than any prosumer computer can manage. It's like trying to push a river of water through a domestic shower.

Currently, HD imagery for consumer markets is a max of 1080p, or 1920x1080 pixels, or about 1/8th of the data you were trying to flick at your screen in any one frame. When I do paid work, I seldom deliver footage higher than 720p because it's all they need for high quality imagery. Anything higher and I'm just wasting render time.

For animations you want to post-produce with other video apps, I recommend sticking with the industry conventions, and try not to view uncompressed footage. (AVI is uncompressed footage. Perfect for rendering out raw footage, but you should convert a copy to a compressed format, like MP4 with a H.264 codec, for viewing.) Oz is a PAL country, so stick with 720p @ 25 fps. Rendering out 'unconventional' sizes is totally fine... but always look to keep it at a level that computers can handle.

Gluck :)

shaykall

Oroboros said:

shaykall said:

I followed your suggestion and reduced the size of the document for the animation, I had it set to maximum, but changed it to 720 X 421, then re rendered the animation, it worked.

Kantaris Media player opened and the AVI was OK, I ran it a couple of times, I even closed the player down and clicked on the file itself and it opened up and played ok, I then opened it up in VLC Player (the other player that gave me issues) and it worked as well.

So reducing the document size removes the issues, your the animation guru, does this give any inkling as to the problem?

Happy to help.

... You say you reduced the document size? What was it before? "Maximum" is 4000px square... Which is 16,000,000 pixels of 24-bit imagery you're trying to cram on a screen that would have 2000x1600 pixels or less, roughly.

If this is the case, and the frame rate is as you had it in the screenshots prior, your main problem is that you were trying to deliver more information to your screen than any prosumer computer can manage. It's like trying to push a river of water through a domestic shower.

Currently, HD imagery for consumer markets is a max of 1080p, or 1920x1080 pixels, or about 1/8th of the data you were trying to flick at your screen in any one frame. When I do paid work, I seldom deliver footage higher than 720p because it's all they need for high quality imagery. Anything higher and I'm just wasting render time.

For animations you want to post-produce with other video apps, I recommend sticking with the industry conventions, and try not to view uncompressed footage. (AVI is uncompressed footage. Perfect for rendering out raw footage, but you should convert a copy to a compressed format, like MP4 with a H.264 codec, for viewing.) Oz is a PAL country, so stick with 720p @ 25 fps. Rendering out 'unconventional' sizes is totally fine... but always look to keep it at a level that computers can handle.

Gluck :)

I understand what you are saying, I have the document resolution set at 1514 X 885, I have a little trouble navigating in Bryce so I have the size as big as possible to help me, but now I will remember to set is to a lower size for rendering.

thanks for your assistance..