Image Editors under Windows 8?
Seliah (Childe of Fyre)
Posts: 336
So... I wasn't entirely sure which section to place this question under. It's in the Commons, but if the admins want it somewhere else, just move it there, I suppose. Or tell me, and I'll oblige as best I can.
I've been without a working computer for over a year, which is why there hasn't been anything from me in so long. Well, I finally got a new computer - it's a Toshiba Satellite. It's great for rendering, but it's got the godsawful Windows8.1 for an OS... and my old Corel Photopaint8 won't run on it anymore. Neither will the CorelDRAWx7 suite, which Corel advertises as being Windows8x compatible.
I've tried Photoimpact, Photoshop Elements, GIMP, and PhotoPos Pro all with no luck. Severely lacking in functionality, or the interface is so awful that I can't work in it. My old copy of Adobe Photoshop is also about ten years old, and wont' run under this blasted OS.
Does anyone have any suggestions on what image editor I *CAN* run under freaking Windows 8.1 for postworking my images? I'm currently trying to make do with Photoshop Elements 7, but the functionality is so limited that about all I can do is put my signature on the images. The filters are all hard valued, with no ability that I can see to control how strong to make the effect when applying.
Do any of the current Adobe Photoshop programs work on Windows 8.1? What about ANY of Corel's products? I really detest Photoshop, but if it's what works, I'll figure out some way to stomach their blasted user interface...
I'm basically out of ideas, and looking for suggestions. Windows 8.1 cannot be downgraded, or I would just downgrade to XP and go back to my trust Photopaint8 that has worked so well for so many years.
So, if anyone knows what image editors actually WORK under Windows 8.1.... I'm all ears. LOL
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Comments
I've got PSP X5 on my 8.1 system. It works just fine as far as I can tell.
Hmm. I hadn't thought about PSP... I'll definitely give it a look. Thank you!
Are you familiar enough with Windows8.1 to be sure that you are installing and operating correctly?
Older applications (i.e. XP era) didn't separate the static program information (i.e. the app's execution code) from the app's dynamic user configurations and state information (i.e. the user's app database). Program code and user state data were traditionally kept in the same installation folder. (Though it has always been poor programming practice)
Vista, Win7 and Win8 joined the 21st century and now strictly enforce the better program practice of separation of program code from user info. Vista was a bit forgiving but Win7 and Win8 are very picky about this. So if you install an app into one of the "sacred" folders. i.e. "Program Files" (for 64bit programs) or "Program Files (x86) "for 32bit programs, then older programs may not work properly because the system doesn't let the user access his own app's database info. (Note: the system tries to be smart about this and will invisibly move your user app data to a sub-folder of your login folder and then link from the installation folder to the relocated user data folder. But this doesn't always keep your app from being confused and failing.)
There are a couple ways around this though. Vista, Win7 and Win8 all have a "Compatability Mode" that can be applied to an installed application to tell the system to run the app as if it were installed in an older version of Windows (e.g. XP). Or you can try uninstalling the application then re-installing it but instead of letting it default the one of the "sacred" folders, manually tell it to install to a different folder. I created a folder in the system disk and called it "C:/XPprogs" and I install my older apps into that folder. That cures a lot of issues because it is not a "sacred" folder so the system doesn't prevent an application from accessing user data that's stored in with the app code.
If neither of these workarounds fix your issue then the app just might rely too much on old ways of doing things. :-(
But, much of the complaints about Windows8.1 is unfamiliarity with where the advanced controls are for tweaking performance and execution modes. The more I work with it the less I bitch about it. Though you should thank your deity that you have Win8.1 and not the original Win8.
I tried that with the older version of Photoshop that I had... didn't work too well. I haven't thought about trying that with Corel.... I suppose by that point I was frustrated enough to not think of it that way. I know that I did something similar to this with my Studio Runtime, when I discovered that it would not allow me to alter my own Runtimes no matter what permissions were set on the folders...
I'll try it one more time with my version 8... if it works... great. If it doesn't... then I guess I'll look into the PSP mentioned above as an alternative that's affordable.
Thanks for the tip/reminder. I'll try it once more with my version 8 and see how it goes. LOL
Depending on how old your Photoshop is, that could be true. My experience was that Photoshop CS2 does not play 100% well with Windows7 but I do have a copy on Win8.1 that works equally tolerably well, installed in a non-sacred folder that I named "C:/Adobe" without assigning any special "Compatability Mode" to it.
(Note: I double checked my installation and discovered that my PhotoshopCS2 is not installed in a "sacred" folder. I apparently had to put it and many of the other Adobe products of that era into a non-sacred folder!)
Yeah, my Photoshop is older than that. Like... before they started adding CS and all the funky letters at the end of things. :p
Photopaint8... well, installing it to a non-sacred folder. It gets a little farther than it did before, but I think it's just too old to play nice with Windows 8 at this point. The process runs in the background, but the program never opens up for use. I know on XP, I had to set a processor affinity for the program anytime I opened it, so that it was only using a single processor. But then the program opened up enough for me to do that... it's not opening on this OS at all. But the process runs happily in the background, chewing on memory. LOL
I think I'm just going to have to ditch it, and I really, really hate to do that. Especially as I completely despise Photoshop, and I do NOT like this thing with the interfaces being all tiled boxes that move or dock... *twitch-twitch-twitch* THAT fact alone is what kept me from upgrading at ALL in the last ten years... is THAT kind of UI setup.
I'll give PSP a try, I guess. If it works under 8,1, at least it's something that works... and it does not have the kind of pricetag Adobe puts on their software.
[Edited to add :
I also tried the compatability troubleshooter as well. No love there, either. I think the program is just too old to play nice with Win8, which is sad, because it really is a powerful little program... and it was well made.]
I played some time with Windows 8 and most programs worked with it. Bryce and DS 3 did work as well as some other old apps
The problems I had were solved by installing all Visual C++ Runtimes from Microsoft
For old programs, you need to install the Visual Studio C++ runtimes 2005, 2008, 2010 in both 32 bit and 64 bit
http://www.microsoft.com/en-US/download/details.aspx?id=5638
http://www.microsoft.com/en-us/download/details.aspx?id=26347
http://www.microsoft.com/en-US/download/details.aspx?id=5582
http://www.microsoft.com/en-us/download/details.aspx?id=2092
http://www.microsoft.com/en-US/download/details.aspx?id=8328
http://www.microsoft.com/en-US/download/details.aspx?id=13523
I also advise to install the Visual C++ 2012 and 2013 runtimes as well as .NET Framework 3.5 and 4.5
http://www.microsoft.com/en-us/download/details.aspx?id=30679
http://www.microsoft.com/en-us/download/details.aspx?id=40784
http://www.microsoft.com/en-us/download/details.aspx?id=22
http://www.microsoft.com/en-US/download/details.aspx?id=40779
[Edit] You should also always install programs by doing Right click -> Run as administrator to have a chance for it to work
Nope... those libraries won't install either. Running them 'as administrator'... I can get the very first one installed. The others all give me an error message about them not being compatible 'with this processor type'.
The compatability troubleshooter is no good on these, either. It doesn't do anything to help. So.. I don't know how you got them installed on Windows8... but my machine just won't install them.
Yeah, farting around with the big icon docking floating gizmos while using a mouse is pretty much a pain. However, I finally had an opportunity to spend some quality time with a Win8.1 machine that had a touch screen, then a lot of the bother evaporated. It just became second nature, and much faster in some cases, to wipe my greasy finger on the screen to invoke the magic.*
I can see that this type of interface is actually pretty good for the brain dead people who use computers in this century. It's all "make art" and "do what you want me to want" operations. And all the twiddly bits that give you real control are quite successfully hidden from old time gurus.
* What they need now is to make the surface of the screen out of that dirt & grease repelling material that makes grime fall right off and never gets yucky.
Ah... yeah, my Toshiba here does not have a touch screen interface. I actually opted to not have the touchscreen because of the whole.. dirty screen/oily fingers thing. (Or in my case...acid skin... no, I'm not kidding, I can't even wear a wristwatch because the acid in my skin kills every watch I try to wear...LOL)
Corel had a 30-day free trial for PSP x6 available for download. I'm trying that out right now. I still feel restricted... I can't seem to locate how to use the rectangle tool, for instance, WITHOUT it automatically filling with a solid color. In Photopaint you can choose whether or not to use a fill color on those tools. It might be in there and I just haven't found it yet, admittedly. Among other things. Probably just learning curve. I'll try it out for the 30 days. If I like it enough/can use it to do what I want to do, then I'll buy the program. At least this PSP isn't loaded full of floating dockers. Patooey! LOL
So far, it's at least running under this OS, which is more than I can say for the supposed Win8-compatible CorelDraw x7... but I seriously, seriously miss Photopaint. :( I managed to get the x7 to load up once - and only once - and that was it... won't load again, so I removed it from the system and gave PSP the next shot. Thank you for the suggestion, this seems to be the only one so far that I've been able to use, though it still feels like I'm missing functionality that my 10+ year old Photopaint had.
You can get The Gimp for free. It works on just about anything. I use GIMP at work. At home, I use Corel Paint Shop Pro. I have it running on 8.1. I don't even have compatibility mode set. Some of your older programs might still work if installed and run correctly.
When installing older programs, right click the installer, select Properties, Compatibility, and choose Run as Administrator mode, and Compatibility mode for Vista (seems to work most of the time). Then run the installer.
If the installer works, right click the icon for the program, Properties, and select Compatibility mode for Vista. You should not need Administrator mode for running the program.
Always keep your data somewhere other than Program Files.
http://www.gimp.org/
Corel PaintShop Pro X6 runs fine on Windows 8.1 and is pretty easy to use with a good feature set - but make sure you have ALL the updates and patches applied as it I experienced a lot of window refresh issues in the "Out of the Box" version.
First of all, XP will always be dear to us, but since the support was dropped a few months ago, it's not a good idea to stick solely to it. I'd not enter my bank's online page under XP anymore - too risky.
Secondly, I have had Windows 8 (64-bit) for slightly over a year. During the first week, I also thought it's crazy. Then I redesigned it to suit my tastes and now... frankly, it is like XP and W7 combined together, but without those quirks that wore me off - like gazillions of popup windows asking for my permission and such. I can help you redesign your own too if you'd like, just contact me.
As for running graphics software on W8(.1), I've never had any problems. GIMP works, though I'm too new to it to use it frequently. PhotoKey Lite has nothing against being installed on W8. My dear MS PowerPoint works like a charm. I don't have Corel or PhotoShop, so I can't check, but you shouldn't have any problems with them either. Did you check for updates, patches and so on?
I can't help with the Win8 stuff -- still plugging along on XP myself -- but this much I can help with. :) Assuming the interface hasn't changed radically between X3 and X6, and considering it hasn't really changed in ten years, I'm betting it's still consistent. In PSP's materials palette, you'll see the two colored squares that indicate foreground and background color. For the shape tools, foreground is the stroke, background is the fill. Underneath each of the F/B indicators, you'll see a trio of buttons. One sets "solid color, gradient or pattern", one sets texture (which is more like a transparency map pattern), and the third is a simple transparent/opaque toggle. Turn the background transparent, and the rectangle will no longer be filled. Note, however, that if you do this, you must have a non-transparent foreground so that the stroke will be visible.
Morgan -
Thanks! I'm just starting to dig through the documentation around x6. =) That helps quite a bit.
Cecilia -
Thanks. I'm not trying to 'make it like XP' here. I'm doing okay in terms of handling the OS overall, I just was hitting a brick wall on the subject of getting an image editor that would work. As I stated in my original post, GIMP was indeed one of the ones I tried, and I just couldn't get comfortable in it... at all.
My old (tried, true, and trusted lol) version of Corel Photopaint is version 8. No x-anything. It's at LEAST ten years old, if not closer to fifteen years old in age, as a program. I've done all the end runarounds one can do with the current OS, and the fact is, it's just too old to work on 64-bit architecture, and in a 64-bit OS. Compatability mode, etc, have all been tried with no luck. Updates... not likely, I've checked into it, it's basically a "legacy" product and Corel does not support it any longer (nor would I expect them to, this many years down the line.)
I *DID* finally get the CorelDraw x7 trial program running... had to jump through a lot of hoops to get it there, but I got it working. And I've got the PSP x6 working - that one worked on the first try, no problems at all... and given the cost differences, I will probably wind up going with PSP x6 while I save up for a copy of the x7 suite.
As far as the Windows8 interface - I will probably send you a PM later tonight, after I've slept. I'm more or less getting used to it... sort of. I've had it about three weeks now, and I'm mostly learning where things are (and able to research/look up where other things are that I can't find). I run into the occasional brick wall or quirk here or there regarding permissions with stuff, but it mostly seems to be related to things trying to go into those "sacred folders" that Gryphon mentioned earlier, and is easily worked around through having the older-apps folder as my install folder for programs that I know I am going to need to be dynamically altering content for.
At this point, I do have a solution though. It will most likely be going with PSP x6 until I can save up for the astronomical price of the x7 suite. (I lucked out with my original copy of Photopaint8 - it came as a freebie when we bought our first printer...LOL) I can pick up a full copy of PSP x6 from Amazon for about $35 or so, so that will be a good holdover until I have saved up for a liscence of the x7 suite. I'm afraid that I'm a Corel baby... I've tried so many other image editors, and I always seem to wind up going back to Corel in the end, in one way or another. LOL
I suspect there's something not quite right with your system or computer - I've installed tons of both older and newer programs (including PS CS6) on this machine under Win 8.1 and except for a couple of Explorer plugins I haven't come across anything that doesn't work yet. Even some old DOS based dictionaries are working fine. On the other hand, I have another Win 8.1 machine with same motherboard and RAM but a different CPU and graphics card, on that machine I have some problems with a program which works fine on this one. Why I have no idea.
I just tried installing an old version of Serif PhotoPlus (X4, 32 bit (current version is X7 which also comes as 64 bit)) and that seems to work fine too. It's a pretty decent program, you could try X7. If you try the free version they usually start sending you some great email offers for their programs, often 50% or more off, you might get it cheaper that way.
http://www.serif.com/int/dk/freedownloads/free-photo-editing-software/
Taozen,
I will certainly look into it. It sure doesn't hurt to explore other programs. Thanks!
Not sure if this has been mentioned as I didn't read all the first page, just the first half of the posts.
For your interface 'issues' you could try this free software.
ClassicShell
I currently use this on Win7 x64 to add the XP style Start Menu and missing bits MS removed from WinExplorer etc. It's a great piece of kit with tons of customisation, so you only turn on, or add, what you want. And it's free. It should get rid of those stupid swipey icons for you.
Looking for alternatives to Photoshop etc is good, you may find something you prefer more, or has more features, especially as your PS is quite old. I assume that moving up to the latest PS is out, as that will work on Win8?
If it were me in your situation, I'd wipe Win8 and put Win7 x64 on, but that may not be the best solution for you.
I'm looking at getting a new laptop myself in the next couple of months. Two of the things I am determined I don't want are touchscreens and Win8/8.1. Win 8 is only useful if you have a touchscreen, remove that and Win8 loses it usefullness.
So I'll be sticking with Win7 x64, but that doesn't help your situation much.
Hopefully you'll find some way around your problem.
EDIT: And Off Topic.
Wow. I never realised it was that long ago when I joined this site. I don't think they even had forums then (but I'm probably wrong). That's what I get for leaving the scene for many, many years. I've only been back about a month, Guess I'm overdue this first post. LOL.
I have to disagree here. :) IMO Win 8 works just as well as Win 7 (I use both myself), if not better (faster). I hardly notice that the Metro/touchscreen interface is there as I've configured the system to boot to the desktop, and installed a 3rd party Start menu (StartX) which I think is much better than the one in Win 7. See screenshot.
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Another you might want to look at is from a company that I like called Serif. They are out of the UK. They have a program called PhotoPlus and it's kinda similar to Photoshop and can import and save out in PS format.
I have to disagree here. :) IMO Win 8 works just as well as Win 7 (I use both myself), if not better (faster). I hardly notice that the Metro/touchscreen interface is there as I've configured the system to boot to the desktop, and installed a 3rd party Start menu (StartX) which I think is much better than the one in Win 7. See screenshot.
To be fair, I've only used Win 8/8.1 on other people's computers through work. I haven't got it myself, so I haven't used it extensively on a computer I own. I should also add that I have a few bits of custom proprietry software that aren't compatible with Win8. So that is a big reason I'll be staying with Win 7 - as I know all my software works on it. If things change I can always upgrade later.
I've heard of StartX, and it seems good, but I prefer ClassicShell as it adds in the cut, copy, paste icons back into explorer, amongst other things. Unless StartX does thar as well, I haven't checked.
Anyway we seem to be going off track, wasn't this thread supposed to be about image editors? :-)
Hi, I have windows 8.1 64bit with Classic shell and it works great. Oh just run a google search with this phrase "optimize windows 8.1" and follow the instructions. Yeah, I also hate the Win8 interface,but classic shell fixed that for me, now it boots to a regular desktop with a start button and no android interface. I have a home-built desktop Intel i7 6core with 32gig of ram so I wanted an operating system that would take full advantage of my extra resources so I upgraded. I also use gimp 2.8.10 and it works great! Oh I should mention I installed the operating system myself so there is no bloatware that comes with prebuilt systems. I notice stuff just works better on my laptops when I wipe them and reinstall the operating system without all the extra stuff the manufacturer installs!