Animate Blocks In Carrara 8.5

TimVukman

Hi:

I am new to Carrara, but have been working with Daz3D and Poser for a while. I read some very positive things about Carrara and decided to look into it seriously for animation and rendering.

I bought the add on to allow me to import Aniblocks.

I'm using the Milenium Baby 3 and animation blocks from the Chiller collection.

My problem:

This combination works very well for me in Daz3D including the fix for the foot angle, but in Carrara the animation seems to use more surface space so the character skates around with the whole body moving. Is there something I have missed in the import settings, or in turning into an NLA clip? (The same problem exists before I make it a clip). The model covers a fair bit of space between steps.

All suggestions / comments welcome

Thanks

Tim

argus1000

I usually don't use the aniblock importer to import animations in Carrara. I don't think the results are very accurate.I bake the aniblocks to the timeline in Daz Studio and use the Poser Format Exporter. This is what works for me.

TimVukman

Thanks argus1000. I will give that a try.

TimVukman

Yikes!

I'm not doing this right. I exported the scene as a .dae file. Poser said it was loading, but it never completed. I tried straight into Carrara as a .dae file and I got a real mess with the skeletons separate from the skins and the skins all in a pile at the point of origin that would have been where they loaded in Daz.

I'm now trying to export from Daz as a .cr2 file for Poser, but I have basically selected everything since I really don't know what I should be setting up on the way out of Daz or on the way into Poser.

I don't supposed there's a guide or tutorial available is there?

Thanks

Tim

Edited for spelling

rk66

Hi,

possibly here:
http://www.gofigure3d.com/site/

rk.

evilproducer

Dartanbeck probably has experience using Aniblocks in Carrara and may be able to offer insight into how to use them. You could try PMing him or looking at his Carrara Information manual thread stickied at the top of the forum.

TimVukman

Thanks for the link rk66. I had been thinking about the products from GoFigure. Hopefully not too bad a learning curve. Certainly worth some serious research. Any experience with them?

thanks

Tim

TimVukman

evilproducer:

Thanks for your response. I have certainly read quite a bit of information posted by Dartanbeck. I'm not sure I'd but him with a PM, but I imagine he will see the post and likely have some helpful suggestions. It all seemed so possible and straight forward when I was reading about it. Not unusual for the doing to be a little more challenging.

btw . I love your tag line.

Tim

Orion_Uk

Have you tried..

Disable constraints if needed...CHECKED
Zero horizontal ...UNCHECKED
Partial (EX. node is not root) ,,,CHECKED
Translation key scale... 100%

Let me know how that goes?

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=GGf_gbs-8dk&feature=youtu.be

Playback is laggy due to screen capture but I assure you it works fine my end :P

TimVukman

Hi Orion_Uk

Thankyou! What you are showing is what I want.

I just opened a new Carrara 8.5 document of medium size and loaded milenium baby 3 from smart content in the browser. I then selected import from the file menu and went to the chiller aniblocks and selected moonwalk. I selected disable constraints if needed (as above) and Partial (as above). I have exactly the same thing as I did before. My character skates backward across close to two grid lines between steps.

Tim

TimVukman

I'm not sure if this matters, but.....

When I pull up smart content in the browser, and select the milenium baby 3, across the top of the screen is a message "importing milenium baby 2.obj and then directly underneath that is milenium baby 3.cr2.

I thought maybe it was grabbing a poser version, but my aniblock is not in the poser runtime folder.

Guessing at this point.

Orion_Uk

Just preparing a reply for you (with video) BRB....

BTW, I don't have millennium baby 3 so am using basic Genesis..

Its just uploading, will be live here soon!

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=JYG2eeDp2lI

EDIT: OK, its up now.. in 1080p, just change to 1080p setting by clicking the cog on bottom right of the youtube window ;)

Its been a long day so if this does not help (or I am missing something!) then plz feel free to leave another post and I will get back to you after some sleep if another forum member does not reply ok ;)

Hope you get this nailed :D

TimVukman

Hi Orion_UK

Thanks for taking the time to put together the video for me. That was very helpful. Now I understand what was meant by "baking" the animation.

I do see some of the slide that I have in your video, but not like it is for the milenium baby. The slide is very pronounced in mine.

thanks,

Tim

rk66 provided a link to the gofigure3d web site. After some sleep, I now figure he was sending me to see if there was anything in their forum or support. I'm going to check in over there

Salem2007

I don't have the Millennium Baby 3 figure so I can't test this, but I tried it with M3. I set the Translation key scale to 50% and compared it to M3 at 100% and the "slide" or backwards movement was less noticeable. I'm just guessing, but you might try that to see if you get any better results.

TimVukman

Salem2007

Thanks for your post. I started playing with that setting and you are right. It does make a difference. I read through all the posts at GoFigure3d and they even have a tutorial on stopping the slide, but the tutorial seems to be a standalone version of Animate2 and I am not seeing the same settings in what is running in Daz3d. I think I should make it as close as I can before I export it.

Thanks

Tim

Dartanbeck

I think that Daz Studio comes with a limited version of aniMate 2. I'm not sure. aniMate 2 was SO cool that I bought it, and it worked well in all versions of DS since then, just by using my serial number for aniMate 2.

I have a feeling that argus1000 was talking about using the Poser Format Exporter to export animated PZ2 (Poser Pose) files. I've never tried that, so I cannot voice any info on that idea.

I have a bit of an article called aniMating in Carrara, which includes some advice on stuff I've been doing with aniBlocks imported into Carrara. I have a more full-blown video tutorial in the works for this stuff... but it's not going to be out for quite some time to come yet... RL is pulling on me pretty hard right now.

I have no experience with the Mill Babies, but I bought them, just in case. But I don't have them installed. I can't really test it right now though. But the trouble you're seeing is likely due to the much smaller scale of the baby, and those blocks are made for Gen 4 (M4 / V4 etc.,)

One thing you might try as a more simple solution would be to load in M4 along side the Mill Baby you want and, in the Motion tab, turn up the overall scale of the Mill Baby until it gets to about 6 ft tall. Now visually compare the length of the legs between the now larger Baby and Michael. They should be pretty close. If so, Now try loading in your Moonwalk and see if it's better.

As for Poser Runtimes, the aniBlock Importer for Carrara doesn't care where your aniBlocks are.

Now - the really REALLY cool thing about owning the paid version of aniMate 2 is the ability to save new aniBlocks, as I mention in the above linked article. So if you get the aniBlocks working on the Mill Baby just right in DS, like with the foot correction and such, you can then save it, which is where I suggest using a new file name like: Moonwalk for Baby 3. Then you can load in those new aniBlocks into Carrara.

I wish that I had more time right now. I bought Carrara for the same reasons that you have, it seems... and it has been the best move I've ever made! With Carrara, you'll soon learn that we have to learn how to change the shaders on our figures to get them looking right. But there are some easy steps for that which just becomes second nature. It's the vastness, and the ease of use, the real-world lighting, the fast rendering... Man, I love using Carrara!

Anyways, if any of this helps... I'll be very glad. If it doesn't, keep trying and let us know how you're doing. We'll figure out how to get your Baby 3 the star of the dance floor!

TimVukman

Hi Dartanbeck:

Thank you for you suggestions. I will follow through with them and report back. Your point on the scale difference between the mil baby and the other characters is likely the cause.

I have not used any animation in poser so I am not sure about moving the animation through their format exporter.

I purchased animate2 through the daz store. Is that not the full version? Should I go direct to GoFigure3d to buy a copy?

I was wondering if maybe the GoFigure3D Graph Mate software might help. I would think I should be able to adjust the amplitude of the motion file simply by lowering the keyframe points.

If you have the steps noted for changing changing the skin shaders in Carrara, please let me know. That would be helpful information.

So far, I also love working in Carrara.

Thanks again,

Tim
P.S. The baby will dance! He's part of a short film.

Dartanbeck

I have a brief run-down of Poser-to-Carrara shader optimization (the easy way) in this article at the Carrara Cafe: Optimizing Your Content – Shader Basics by Dartanbeck

I figured that you had the Full Version of aniMate 2 once I thought about it. It's the one with the heel angle changer slider thingy! :)
No... if you've already bought it from DAZ 3D, that's the one.

I'm tempted to get GraphMate too, but you won't need that unless you wish to make your keyframe animations in DAZ Studio. It seems like it is GoFigure's answer to bringing the DAZ Studio timeline editor closer to what we get with Carrara. Having Carrara in your toolkit, you won't need it unless you prefer working in DS - I prefer Carrara. You'll see why in time ;)

Using the Poser Format Exporter (PFE) - Again, I'm not used to this work flow, since I mainly use Carrara. But aniMate 2 will allow you to "Bake" aniBlock sequences to the DS Timeline, and then you could use the PFE to export the animated pose as a Poser PZ2 into a folder within the "Poses" folder of a Poser Runtime structure. Doing that will allow you to add the animated pose by simply clicking in the Content folder from inside Carrara - instead of importing an aniBlock.

I used Poser's Walk Designer a lot to map out walks that are not perfectly straight, using the motion path method. Then I would save the animated pose as a PZ2 into my Pose folder so I could use them on my characters in Carrara. It works very well - just like adding regular poses in Poser.

Gotta go... more later :)

TimVukman

Hi Dartanbeck

Thanks for your continuing supply of useful information!! I read through your discussion of animation in what you called

a bit of an article

That is a huge collection of useful information. If you ever decide to write the book you have inside you, let me know. I'll be lined up to buy the first copy.

Yes, I did figure out that I do have the real version of Animate2.

My consideration of GraphMate is from watching the tutorial an imagining it forward into what it would help me do. I'll say why in a minute, but what's important is that it won't help me. I can't fix it in Daz before I send it to Carrara. The problem comes into play in Carrara with the character scaling.

The main reason for considering Graphmate is that I have not been able to figure out the graph functions in Carrara. In theory, I should be able to adjust my animation there, but when I open it, all I ever see are flat dashed lines with small boxes at the left end. I have tried adjusting the lines up and down, but it doesn't seem to make a difference.

I read up on it in the version 7 manual and see if there's enough there to help me.

I am digesting what you are saying about Poser. I have no frame of reference for it at the moment, but it remains an option as an addon for my workflow if it will help.

Thanks,

Tim

Dartanbeck

timandjan said:

I am digesting what you are saying about Poser. I have no frame of reference for it at the moment, but it remains an option as an addon for my workflow if it will help.

In short if you own, say, Michael 4, he comes with a small collection of Poses you can apply to him. To do so you go into Poses in Poser.
Select Michael and double-click a pose file, and it will load the pose data onto the figure and pose him.

Well, if you adjust a pose and want to save it in Poser, you can do so either in the same folder as the other poses, or even better you can create your own custom folder and save your custom poses there. I make several - named for what they are, like 'Walks', 'Standing', Sitting', etc., which are all in a single "Dartanbeck" folder.

To make the files work properly for Poser, they must reside in the proper place within the "Runtime" folder, in this case: "Runtime >Poses"

Well, when Carrara gained the ability to use Runtime content as native, like it does now, it has the same requirements: Figures go in the "Runtime > Characters" folder structure, facial expressions in "Face", Hands in "Hand", etc., where some remain hidden in Carrara because, while Carrara may be able to load what's in them, they won't work properly - like lights and cameras for example.

Another example of this is mentioned just above... the Hands folder. This folder is for poses made specifically for the hands. To load them, simply select the figure (not the hand) and double-click the file. A dialog then appears asking which hand to apply the pose to. Really sweet and time efficient - so you only need to make one pose and let the software do the rest, instead of actually having to painstakingly create two poses, one for each hand!

=============================================================================

So, what does all of this do for me? Why did I explain all of that?

I wanted to explain to be sure we are on the same page.

Yet another article by Dartanbeck: Daz Install Manager - Installing Custom Poser Runtimes might have info about installing custom runtime folders using the DIM, but more importantly, it also includes ideas on why multiple runtimes can be beneficial. You might already know about this stuff.

By having your own folder(s) within the Poses folder within the runtime in question, you can save your own Poser format (PZ2) pose files to gain the ease of double-click (Poser style) pose application in Poser, but also in Carrara!

Using the PFE, you can convert DAZ Studio poses and animations to this tried and true file format.
Using aniMate 2, you can transform aniBlocks into DAZ Studio timeline data (Bake to DS Timeline), and then use PFE to create an animated PZ2 poser format pose file!

This might make for an easy workflow for you.

The article I mentioned earlier, AniMating in Carrara, explains ways that make aniBlock information incredibly powerful, negating the need for the added step of converting to PZ2 format. So I often only use the PZ2 format when using Poser's Walk Designer or other tools to make poses, and Poser PZ2s work in Carrara, so I just use Poser to save them right there and then. So having the aniBlock importer for Carrara really completes the circle - allowing us to use aniBlocks from DS, and it already knows what to do with the Poser formats... win - WIN!

==========================================================================================

Carrara's timeline editor is quite powerful - though it takes a little time to get to grips with - but only to discover how to do it. Once that's happened, it's really slick!

Notice that each entry on the hierarchy of a figure has a drop-down arrow, allowing you to open a local hierarchy for that specific joint. Okay that was a bit wordy, so here's an example: if you want to do something with the right foot, and look along the hierarchy in the left side of the timeline to find the right foot, you can then open the hierarchy for just the right foot.

Inside the hierarchy for each joint includes the separate manipulations, like rotation for each of the three axis, the transformation and/or scale for each axis, etc., and if the joint itself has a single keyframe, there will be more keyframes under its hierarchy depending upon what was changed at that point in time. Example: if you rotate the right foot a bit on the Y axis, which required a slight nudge along the X axis, you'll get a keyframe on both X and Y axis in the rotational hierarchy of the right foot.

Now switch to the Graph Editor (Blue button on the upper left of the timeline - it says "Sequencer" - change it to "Graph Editor")

You need to open up the hierarchy of the joint and adjust the individual axis, one at a time.

With your mouse, just grab the line where you want, and drag it up or down on the graph.

Now, let's say that we've loaded an aniBlock onto a different figure than what the aniBlock was designed for, so now the feet are at the wrong angle and we need to fix that. No problem:

Locate the appropriate axis of rotation. Notice that the colors on the lines in the graph editor are the same as the axis on the manipulator, and the axis diagram in the lower left of the working window. So if you need to adjust the green axis, you need to work on the green line - so find that axis in the rotational portion of the hierarchy, one foot at a time.

Instead of doing this for each place there's a keyframe (eee gadds!), drag a selection around the whole line in the timeline. Being patient, you can even do this for 30 second long animations!

Once you've selected the whole line (actually a curve - my bad!), pick a spot along the timeline where you can easily see what the angle should be when fixed - like where it should be flat on the ground, for example. Now drag the line up or down to get the foot to bend to be flat on the ground. That done, you've just corrected the angle evenly across the whole timeline in one shot!

TimVukman

Thanks for sticking with me through this. I really appreciate your time investment. I will go and put some stuff together with the information that you have provided on Poser. I am familiar with the directory structure and multiple runtimes so I will look at your suggested structure as I am already convinced on the value of the clarity it brings for finding things later.

I am in Carrara and I have selected the graph editor and at first, all I saw were the dashed horizontal lines in three colours that I mentioned earlier. Once I realized that the blue blob on the very bottom of the screen border was for left / right scrolling of the timeline, things became a little more clear. :)

I can now see the coloured boxes which I believe must be the keyframe markers. I have the right foot selected in the window that says "Filtering", but when I move any of the keyframe boxes, there is no change in the right foot of the character on the screen. I have moved all three different colours at different points, and some quite dramatically. I see no change in the character when I move the blue downward arrow (timeline position indicator?) back and forth across the changes that I have made.

I can't help feeling that I am right on the edge of the "Ah Ha" moment of clarity. I'm still not quite there.

If I can get past this sticking point, I think I should be able to adjust the movement of the character here in Carrara to solve my issue of sliding.

Thanks

Tim

Dartanbeck

Here's a couple of quick screen shots of a short animation of the Right Foot, and I've opened the hierarchy in the Graph Editor down to the right foot, its Motion Method, Translation, Rotation, and finally the X axis Rotation. To change the X Axis Rotation evenly across the entire animation, I would drag a select around the whole line of red boxes as shown in the second image, and then click in that selection and drag up or down before releasing the mouse button.

Note that if you drag one of the red (or green or blue) boxes in a different time than you are currently viewing, you will not notice any change, if there is another key between it and where you are viewing. So if you need to adjust evenly, you must first drag a selection around all keys, and then click on one of the keys and drag. If it should happen where you click and release by accident, drag the selection again... you want to drag all of them at once. Dragging them right or left will dis-align them with the rest of the animation, so be careful to only go up or down.

TimVukman

Amazing work on your little tutorial. I have noticed that my red line crosses the other coloured lines in the panel. I will end up grabbing those as well. Is there an easy way to restrict what I have in the graph?

Thanks

Tim

Dartanbeck

Note the yellow highlight in the left hierarchy. In the above screenshot, I have the "X" Axis selected. The X Axis is the red one. So when X is selected, you only get the X axis rotation for that single joint - in this case, the right foot.

So here's my workflow for that:

Right-click the first foot to adjust in the scene and select it from the selection options. This highlights the foot in the hierarchy so I can quickly find it in the left hierarchy.

Change the Sequencer in Graph Editor and scroll down to find the highlighted foot.

Open the Hierarchy of the foot and keep drilling down through the "Motion Method" hierarchy to get to the rotation of the three axis, and:

Select the axis that I need to change.

So if you see a bunch of dotted lines, you're not looking at the right thing. You want to select the "Rotation" axis in question.

Take a look at the hierarchy that I'm pointing at in the first of the two images above.

TimVukman

Thanks. I couldn't read it very well, but this morning I tried clicking on it and it opened into a much larger picture that I can read clearly.

Looking promising.

Tim

Edited to add comment.

Wow, that made the foot correction very easy!!!

To tackle the extra space that is being covered in every step, would you do each foot to shorten the stride, or the hip / abdomen?

Thanks

Tim

Dartanbeck

For that you want to graph edit the hip's positional motion (instead of rotation).

For this example I've loaded in "Casual Walk" from GoFigure's Walk Styles pack.

It causes a walk cycle running along the Y axis.

So to increase or decrease the stride, I open the Hip's hierarchy in the Graph Editor to Motion Method: Keyframe > Transform > Position, and select "Y" to highlight it.

To scale the whole curve evenly, drag a selection around all keys

Look closely and you'll see a dashed line box around the selection

Grab the top of the selection box (red arrow) and drag up or down to scale the curve, which will increase (up) or decrease (down) the distance traveled between steps.

TimVukman

Hello and thank you.

I encountered the box around the keyframes with the dashed lines by accident in the last example you so kindly provided on the foot rotation.

Your efforts have been much appreciated and the result is not only the solution to my problem, but more importantly you have inspired me to follow this through to the point where I am completely comfortable with the graph editor in Carrara as that investment in time will certainly help me 10 fold in Carrara animation.

I discovered that the Poser exporter was not in my collection of Daz software and I was pleased that my platinum club membership allowed me to pick up the software at no incremental cost to me. I don't seem to see any trace of it in my export options from Daz though, so I will have to look for a tutorial or documentation. I think I will also pick up the Animate Blocks software for Poser as well. I want to be fluent in animation in Daz, Poser and Carrara and I am getting more comfortable with the blocks. I haven't started editing them yet, but I do have a need so I will continue in that direction as well.

You have been an enormous help and I really appreciate it!

Tim

Dartanbeck

My pleasure... truly.
I always learn more and become more inspired the more I help to nudge others in the right (hopefully) direction ;)
Animate for Poser? Cool. I barely use Poser now. Carrara has pretty much been my mainstay. But I've seen and heard some great things about this latest version. Perhaps one day I'll add it to my workflow, once again. I am still on version 7 by Elaborate Bytes.

I love to just import the aniBlocks and, while they're still in keyframe form (before making NLA Clips) grab handfuls of keys and delete them. Then make my NLA Clip and import another.

Like for walk cycles. I've been spending a lot of time (just ask Wendy, EvilProducer, and Garstor) watching Star Wars and Star Wars: The Clone Wars - animated seasons. In the Clone Wars animated series, I see some excellent examples of walks. Their feet never slide, etc., but even more, their arms aren't swaying in opposition to the feet. So then I started to notice that most people don't sway their arms as they walk - most of the time. So I started deleting the keys for the arms, neck and head, and making a clip from the rest. That way, I can Loop the walk cycle, leaving the head, neck and arms free to keyframe separately as my scene needs! Sweet, eh?!!! Love it! :ahhh:

TimVukman

Hi, Yes, I have noticed your comments on the Star Wars animations. You correctly observe that most people don't swing their arms in casual walking situations. That seems to be mostly the people on a mission or walking for the sake of exercise.

It is odd (but no coincidence) that we notice so little until we start doing it. Now I really pay attention to how people move, and the differences in shoes that change the pattern. I am even paying attention to outfits and patterns. I see stuff on people now that I would never of have thought to produce for the Daz store, because I didn't think anyone would buy it, but I guess real life has always been stranger than fiction :) Horizontal stripes on large women, or diagonal stripe patterns that merge on the back seam of a dress. Change the colours and you have the warning barrier from the back of a long transport trailer. All that's missing is the warning :)

\ \ \ \ \ \ WIDE LOAD / / / / / /

I guess it's like not noticing how many instances of a certain car there are on the road until you buy one. Suddenly they're everywhere you look.

Thanks again

Tim

Dartanbeck

LOL!
Wow... we feel the same way about numerous things, it seems! :ahhh:

Well, if you've ever had an urge to model in 3d (perhaps you already do), I have some more info around here regarding modeling clothing for Genesis - which can also translate to earlier generation figures as well. While it can be time-consuming to make really complex costumes, easier ones can be a real blast!

As for adding a bit of personality to a walk, I've also had a lot of fun tweaking aniBlock information to create custom movements:

* Import the aniBlock

* Delete all keys for Arms, head and neck (or leave the head and neck depending upon what you want)

* For a cycled walk animation, select all of the hip and leg keys, and then deselect the first, the last, and a few in the middle for each leg (all parts - thigh, shin, foot, and toes) and the hip, and delete the rest, leaving four, five, or maybe six keys on each of those joints.

This keeps the main gist of the motion, giving you a good start towards tweaking out those keys or intermediate ones that were deleted. Mess up? Just repeat the process and try again. I find it to be great fun!

TimVukman

To be honest, I have played around a bit with learning how to make clothes. I bought a package of training which was associated with the Dawn model on how to make a bikini using Hexagon 2.5. I then purchased a package from Dreamlight on Hexagon modeling which was a great learning tool.

I have also picked up Pagasus which seems like what I will end up using for clothing. I'm working on it from time to time, so any links you can throw my way would be greatly appreciated.

I think I will be playing with the animation for the foreseeable future. I do want to get my short film project. Last night I added a blank animate block and put together the start of the sequence for the baby. He starts on his back on a change table, rolls onto his front and then stands up. It needs some tweeking, but the core is there and looks reasonable for a first attempt.

My biggest problem is the lack of hours in a given day. Having to learn all the different aspects of the different stages required to put together this film is a little slow when I'm keen to get the project done, but I find it fascinating and relaxing. When something clicks into place it's like magic, and when I show someone a part that I have "completed" or a test that I have done, to them it actually is magic!

I work with what I have learned, and then when I hit a roadblock, I focus on learning as much as I can until I get past it, and so on at the next roadblock. My project is really the hands on environment for the learning. As I learn more, I go back and upgrade / enhance aspects that are already in place. When I am really stuck, or can't figure out how to get started, I reach out for help, and when someone responds as you have, I know I can continue and I am just that much more enthusiastic.

Thank you once again for your help and mentoring.

Tim