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Some progress on my submission.
I'm creating this in stages.
The people in the background are exported out from Studio as .obj and then re-textured in Carrara.
They are the put together in a separate scene, witch is later imported into the main scene.
Then there might be minor adjustments to position.
The room is all created in the vertex modeller, using a low-poly figure as proxy, just for scale.
As normal I'm overdoing everything, and making it to complex.
Still has to accessories the main Lady, and get some decorations for the walls.
Wow! More and more cool stuff gets posted every day!
shlomi laszlo, that's a very cool concept with great moody lighting, albeit a bit too dim to see (at least on my monitor). If it is too dim for your purposes too, you might be able to fix it in post without re-rendering, if you have Photoshop, CameraRaw can be of great help in that department, I've been using it on jpegs as my go-to photo and light-correction tool. If you rendered out multi-passes than you might solve it just by doubling the GI path and/or reducing the opacity of the shadow pass and/or doubling highlights. I would also render out material diffuse color pass and use it to fake SSS. Or if you plan to re-render anyway, maybe just increase the intensity of some of your lights?
SukyL, I love the lighting on your character. In fact, I was sure you are using Octane, but than I couldn't find any mention of it in your posts. Did I not go far enough, or are you really achieving this great look in Carrara itself? Are you using color in your glow panels or are they still pure values? I wonder hoe slow this method is compared to regular lighting, or is it not much slower when used in small settings and without other lights at all?
Thank you all for your suggestions!
Let's see if I have covered everything here....
I am thinking of changing the composition a tiny bit in hopes of making it more dynamic. I'd love some feedback about it.
Warmer sun - tried, does it work?
Lighter sky color - there.
I didn't like how the greater distant light intensity washed out the bench, so i took it out of the group affected by the super bright distant light and gave it a less intense light (same attributes as the other one, just less intense) - does it still look OK, or too dark? (some tests show before and after)
Warmed up skin shaders, added brighter anisotropic highlights to the hair.
What other things may I try to make the scene more natural/realistic and brighter (mood-wise)?
Dustrider and evilproducer This is such a fun challenge. You both do such an amazing job keeping everyone encouraged and offering expert advice.
Antara I think render 1 absolutely nails the bright summer day look you are after. It's gorgeous!
Thanks for your Octane comparison. It's 100% Carrara render engine and global illumination with a glowing object. I decided to try it out after watching philw's realism rendering video. There are 3 planes with white in the glow channel set to varying % brightness. The render setting is for indirect light. The color comes from the light bouncing off the floor and backdrop. When I get home, I can post the render setting. It's pretty slow to render especially when it hits hair and eyes, hence the bald lady. The monkeys took about 30 minutes. The light quality needs to be set to best or there will be nasty dark artifacts.
The light setup and settings I'm using are in post #101 of this thread. The material settings are all default except for the glow channel, which is the important one. You can use a color as a multiplier if you want colored lights. Tim_A is using only glowing objects in his stairwell as well to great effect.
This is going to be my last WIP… Monkey needs a fez! I want it to have a silky texture. I searched the forum for how to make a silky material and found a post by holly_wetcircuit explaining that the anisotropic light model is the thing to use for directional shiny textures such as silk or brushed metal. But, how? I actually heard the voice of the late Carrararist Brian aka btwr say “read the manual” at that moment. So, after reading about it in the C7 manual, I am totally going out of my comfort zone, trying to set up my own procedural shader. I do suspect it might be in Carrara in the shader presets as a brushed metal, but this is a personal challenge, so I won’t peek. If this works out, I might try to make my actor’s gown silky as well.
The Hurdy Gurdy Man fez has material zones for the hat, tassel, cord, and button. In the texture room, I changed the top shader to Lighting Models> Anisotropic Model (Phong is the default). The tangent direction is set to latitude. This makes the light travel north-south. Meridian line seems to add the effect to a flat surface such as a record or CD. Not sure what customized does. It kind of seems to follow the underlying mesh. I haven’t quite figured out the angle, but 0 deg works in this example. I think it’s more important for the customized setting.
Color is set to red. After Googling photo references of silk fabric, it’s apparent that the highlights are a lighter version of the fabric color rather than white. So I set the highlight to the same red with a % multiplier to control the intensity. The shininess controls the spread of the light. A lighter color makes a nice highlight or completely different color in the highlight gives a nice effect of different color warps and wefts in the fabric. The bump channel contains a texture map. It's not necessary for the effect. It just gives the light something to interact with. It must have something to do with the mesh, but I had to make one with diagonal lines with a brushed metal filter in Filter Forge to get a horizontal line on the model. I made the gold material the same way, but used a lighter yellow in the highlight and used a horizontal pattern in the bump to get diagonal texture on the cord and turned the diagonal bump pattern to make the texture vertical for the tassel. The default fez material is on the left and the silky procedural shader is on the right. This is a pretty simple setup. I’m sure someone could really go to town with this for some great effects.
By the way, global illumination, like in my scene setup, absolutely kills the anisotrophic effect because of the diffuse, multi-directional nature of the light. So, to make this work in my scene, I’m putting in a single Carrara bulb positioned so it looks like its coming from the same direction as the light from the left glowing plane. The bulb is set to not cast shadows and to only light objects with the anisotrophic materials, so it won't interfere with my indirect light too much.
Now, I’ve got to figure out what to do with a monkey, a woman, and a fez for the final image.
Very interesting!
You know, RingoMonfort has been experimenting with the anisotropic lighting model for lip shaders on is skin textures. I don't have time to look up the thread at the moment, but it's one I intend to experiment with myself.
I bet it would look good for the lips, especially for a shimmery, pearlescent lipstick look.
I think that's the look he was going for.
Here is what I think would be my final picture.
The paintings are taken from the Wikimedia Commons, and are all Public Domain.
They are simply a texture on a simple UV-mapped vertex plane, and a vertex frame.
And now to start to list all the stuff I have used in this picture..
Varsel You've got some impressive modeling skills. Your scene looks really good with a lot of details and has great lighting. Only thing I would suggest would be to make the camera angle a bit more interesting. It's kind of flat -- straight on with no obvious focal point. My eye is drawn to the middle of the crowd. Maybe a little more from the visitor's pov or from the queen's would be good.
Thanks. The art part of this has always been my week part. I do actually enjoy modelling things, more than I enjoy creating pictures.
But that you found that the lighting was ok, means that I have completed my personal challenge in this challenge.
And that is a big thanks to PhilW for the Gamma Correction, and evilproducer for the IR-map
I do agree that the composition in this picture isn't good, but I have run out of time.
I wont have time until monday to do any changes, and that would be to late.
Thanks. The art part of this has always been my week part. I do actually enjoy modelling things, more than I enjoy creating pictures.
But that you found that the lighting was ok, means that I have completed my personal challenge in this challenge.
And that is a big thanks to PhilW for the Gamma Correction, and evilproducer for the IR-map
I do agree that the composition in this picture isn't good, but I have run out of time.
I wont have time until monday to do any changes, and that would be to late.
Ah yes! The time vampire that is real life. We all know that one!
I think the lighting is very good. The characters are great!
No time to re-compose, no problem... I really like how you convey how important this meeting between the visitor and the queen is to the people of the court. I love how the queen's advisor leans in to catch every word. Each faction --aristocrats, military, and clergy-- has much to gain or lose based the outcome. The guys in tails, definitely look like they are plotting something. The distant queen is oblivious to all.
How's that?
Thank you, sukyL for the comment and for explaining your process so wonderfully and in such detail. I love using anisotropic highlights on the modeled (as opposed to dynamic)hair shaders, but it sometimes requires extra tweaks of the textures if the hair model textures come with highlights painted on. I've learned to stay away from those :).
Now that I am nearing the end of my lighting tweaks and tests, here is the screen grab of the lights in my scene.
HDRI (I created it myself based on regular sky maps and it ended up being a bit too dark for my taste, so that's why I am using such crazy brightness settings for it). I didn't want to use indirect lighting since I wanted to minimize render time. HDRI is used as Sky Light only in the GI settings (at 85%).
Now the lights:
Light 1 is a Distant (that's the one pointing down at the figure), it has light yellowish tint and is set at 300% - any less and the scene turns blue and gloomy since my sky HDRI is so blue. This light affects everything except the girl on the bench group.
Light 2 is exactly the same as Light 1 (therefore it's not even visible in the scene), but the intensity is at 175% and it is used only on the bench and the book (otherwise these objects look blown out).
Light 3 is the same as Light 1, too, but it is used on the figure only and has the intensity of 50%. My figure has some glow in it, so it's doesn't need as much outside light as the rest of the objects in the scene.
Now the indirect lighting simulation lights: I am using only 2 of them, since I don't care as much for the objects in the distance, and I am also faking indirect lighting on the plants by using Translucency.
Light 1 fill is the fist indirect lighting simulator. It is pointing in the opposite direction to my main lights, has a light blue tint, 25% intensity, and is set to cast NO shadows. It also doesn't affect the girl on the bench group, because there I'm using other methods for indirect lighting:
Bulb is set to fake the light bouncing off the book pages, so it's almost white has only 3.5 ft range, maximum falloff, and only affects the girl and her hair and clothes.
I tweaked almost all the shaders in the scene. I can answer any questions about it, if anyone is interested, but it's just not feasible to describe all the changes I've made - there are dozens and dozens of them!
If I have to describe one, then I can elaborate on the hair shader. The before picture is here:
http://www.daz3d.com/forums/viewreply/678510/
And the latest hair shader is seen in the latest test render and is shown in the screen grab.
I used darker hair color map warmed up and darkened further by the multiply color. Anisotropic Lighting model with default settings. And lighter color map multiplied by alpha map in the Highlight channel to get more interesting and diverse highlights. The bump is set at 19%. Shininess at 8.7%
I hope this is enough information to satisfy the requirements, but if more is needed, or if there are specific questions you'd like me to answer about the image, shaders, or process, please ask and I'll be happy to answer.
Great explanations Antara. Also a great image!
Your description of the hair shader is very informative. If you want another thing to try in the future, you could multiple your color map by the hair's bump map or specular map (if it has one) in the Translucency channel.
SukyL and Antara - Thanks for your detailed explanations!! There is a lot of great information there that I'm sure I'll be able to put to good use. I would imagine it will be useful to many other Carrara users as well
Varsel, great work, so many characters in a single scene! I like the interaction between characters, must have been a lot of work setting it all up (not to mention the work involved in the great modeling)!
Hello everyone
Lots of progress, and lots of info to try and absorb !!!!!!
Many thank-yous to those doing explanations as they go, much appreciated by Noobs like me.
Update from me.
Still got Vicki6 to finish off, but she is next on the list after I finish the scene shaders.
Shaders:-
Footpath shader replaced with one done in Inagoni's Veloute II as per his tutorial, with some extra colour added.
Happy with the result, so I will leave as is or I won't get anything else done.
Road pavement/cobblestones replaced with one done from first principles.
PROCESS USED
Road Surface/gravel photo downloaded from http://www.morguefile.com/archive
Taken into Paint-Shop-Pro X6, where it was converted into tiled format (Effects/Image Effects/Seamless Tiling)
Next taken into Shader Map 2 where Displacement, Normal, AO, Spec maps were generated.
Results reloaded into PSPX6 for final sorting out.
Carrara 8.5 opened up and New Empty Scene (30ft) created
Insert/Plane
Plane primitive size changed 10ft to 1ft
Edit/New Master Shader
Click onto Texture room (out of Assemble room)
Shading/Colour/Texture Map imported (tiled picture)
Shading/Highlight/Texture Map imported (AO)
Shading/Bump/Texture Map imported (Normal)
Displacement/Texture Map imported (Displacement)
- Went through a heap of variations to get it looking like something good, ended up adding a slight bit of reflection-refraction-SSS to get a slight Quartz look to the cobblestones. Still a bit too glossy so need to cut the reflection back just a bit.
Also did a few trials adjusting the hues/colours of the base texture picture in both PSPX6 as well as Paint.Net.
Have settled on a final look (Trial-6), is not shown in the preview (Trial-5).
(If there is anyone familiar with getting good results of Shader Map 2 output into Carrara I would appreciate it if they could share their wisdom and learnings !!!!!!!)
Brickwork I am now doing from first principles as I had a picture that matched the look I was after. Refer attached pic.
Adjusted the brickwork (very preliminary to see if the shaders matched the look I was after), timber framing in front of shop, metalwork, concrete base/edge to buildings, kerbing, and drain in centre of road using some of the great Vendor shaders.
(Timber framing in front of shop to be adjusted to match final brickwork.
Concrete Base/edge to buildings will change to match/blend/look of the bricks/footpath.
Kerbing to get a slight more green tinge to look as if it was meant to be a part of the cobble-stone to footpath look.
Happy with the look of the drain. ( If I get some time some water running down the centre would greatly add to it. )
As I am running out of time the car might not get the model-make-over I wanted to do. Will see what happens.
Scaling issues for shaders
I have been using the process of:-
Top Shader - Change Multi Channel to Projection Mapping/Flat Mapping/Full Box
Then in the Transform tab adjusting the overall scale.
Currently I am not getting the results I expected.
Am I using the wrong process ? or does the way it is originally mapped affect the scaling of the shaders ?
Have included the latest render, if you look at the bricks there should be 2 lengths of bricks instead of half a brick each side of the shop front woodwork. Have tried a heap of different combinations but is getting very frustrating that it is not working out.
The cobblestone look for the road pavement still needs a bit of reflection lowered.
For those interested in how the Shader Map 2 / PSPX6 process worked out, here are the textures for you to have a sticky-beak at.
Comments/feedback very welcome.
Best way to apply them to an imported DAZ3D scene also welcome !!!!!!!
I think the mapping would effect it. I if there is a template that came with the model, you could maybe use that to place the textures. If not, there is also trying different ways to tile the image.
I think the bricks look okay. I would think that if tiled them another vertical level and maybe two horizontally (they look stretched) that may help.
I'm more or less happy with the composition now. I've got Stephanie at the bottom of the tower, with a piano, and Michael at the top, waving, er, "encouragement". You probably don't want to hear what's being said!
Still not happy with the lighting.
Also added a thumbnail of the up shot. I haven't rendered it big, because the lights are set for the top camera, and the render time is over an hour at 1200x900!
I think it looks pretty good.
Is it the lighting at the bottom of the tower you're not happy with? You could try excluding objects or figures from lights if they're getting blown out or creating shadows you don't want.
Yes it's the lighting at the bottom. I have a glow plane shining through the door, like i do with the windows, but it produces that effect like a fireworks explosion on the floor if it's bright enough to illuminate Stephie. If I turn it down to a nice glow, nothing else is lit. I threw in a spot, but the result is hideous ugly. I haven't tried excluding things yet - i guess that's my next step.
If it's a plane with a glow shader that generates the light, you may be out of luck. Have considered a rectangular shape light? You can set the size of the rectangle, you can set the range to distance squared, which is more physically accurate than a spot lights' linear fall-off, I think that distance squared is how the GI renderer calculates light fall-off from an object with a glow channel. Plus you can adjust intensity and tuff with a bit more control. You could also use soft shadows and set the light radius to that of the shape light.
I haven't played with shape lights, so that' something to try.
Hello Evilproducer
Was still having problems with the Carrara tiling so I took the textures into Swatch Maker V2, increased the tile size from 1024 to 2048, then used Paint.Net to resize back to 1024, which finally worked !!!!!
I don't know if it's exclusively a mapping issue with the scene or me still being a Noob, important thing was I found a workaround.
Finish off the scene shaders today, then sort out those clothes moths in Vicki's wardrobe. Might swap the Toon Car for a Yamaki as well.
Would have liked to upgrade the Toon Car but I think I would need another week.
Many thanks for the advice/feedback once again !!!!!!
Tim_A I think I know what's going on with your bottom floor lighting. Flip your plane around. The plane is 2 sided. If the mesh normal side isn't facing toward your subject the light will have a really bad jagged, degraded look. Or, try a sphere, which doesn't have the problem. I had something similar going on with my light rig. My figures looked mud-spattered and had huge dark areas under arms, creases, and folds. I flipped the planes over, and the lighting was even and the undersides looked like soft shadows as they should.
Bunyip02 Your scene is looking good.
I saw your Vicki 6 wardrobe issue many posts back. I'm assuming you are trying to autofit V4 clothes to her. I tried to replicate the issue myself. I'm not getting the tattered effect, but can't get V4 pants (from Songstress for V4 in this case) to fit correctly on her. I gave up trying to do autofit to G2F in Carrara. If you are comfortable with DAZ Studio, here is a workaround. Caveat, I have the V4 clone for Genesis 2F (http://www.daz3d.com/victoria-4-for-genesis-2-female), so this might be more difficult or a no go without a clone.
(The first image is V4 clothes autofit in Carrara 8.5Pro directly.)
Part 1
1) Load V6 in DS, select V6 in Scene tab
2) Load clothing item to V6, select made for original figure (V4) and clothing type when prompted, wait for autofit to finish
3) Select clothing item in the scene tab, then File>Save As>Support Asset>Figure/Prop Assets
4) Accept default Figure/Prop Assets Save Options (note path where saving preset on your system), leave DAZ Studio
V4 clothes to G2F Part 2
5) Load V6 in Carrara
6) Select asset item (saved previously from DS) in Carrara browser Content tab>My DAZ 3D Library (may differ depending where you direct your files)>Presets (also might vary depending on path)
7) Drag to Genesis 2 Female level in the Instances tab
8) Select V4 and clothing type when prompted during Autofit
Her clothes should fit fine now (might need some adjusting through parameters).
I hope it works for you. Good luck!
Another variation on the same method that SukyL just posted. If for some reason that doesn't work, you can try this, although it is very similar.
By default, in the My Daz3D Library folder, there are subfolders for Character, Scene, Shaping, Support Asset, and Wearable. Rather than support asset, I have created wearable presets. Not sure if it makes much difference but it might be good to know both methods just in case one doesn't work sometime. In the wearable subfolder, I create another subfolder for legacy content that I have used Studio to convert for Genesis or Genesis 2 figures. So I created a subfolder in Wearable labeled "V4 to G2F".
In Daz Studio, load the Genesis 2 Female default figure.
In Daz Studio, find an item of content made for V4 (probably in a Poser-style runtime folder).
In Daz Studio, load the clothing item on G2F (or load separately and use edit:figure:fit to)
- Studio should do a good job of converting the clothing as long as you have the V4 conversion product.
In Daz Studio, select the Genesis 2 Female in the scene tab.
In Daz Studio, use Save As : Wearable Preset
Navigate to the folder you created, in my case "V4 to G2F," and save the duf file.
Open Carrara.
Load a G2F character and morph to please.
Note that there is usually a double group structure
Open the content browser and drag the saved wearable preset from your "V4 to G2F" folder to the top level group (don't fit to yet).
Once the clothing item is in the super group, use fit to for your clothing item to genesis 2 female.
There have been a couple of exceptions, but in general this has worked very well for me.
And, because they had that 80% off sale for V4 ad M4 items, I spent way over my 3D budget to grab a big pile of legacy content, which I converted to Genesis and Genesis 2 wearables while watching sports.