Is it worth updating my DS version?
marble
Posts: 7,449
Hi.
I am still running DAZ Studio 4.6.0.18. I did update this once but found that none of my saved scenes would load correctly - the figures would be mangled and the clothes exploded. So I reverted back to this version. I know someone else had the same problem because there was a bug raised (can't find the original post now so don't know if the bug was accepted).
However, I only use V4 and M4 figures these days. I did buy some original Genesis items but I have so many add-ons, morph packs, etc. for V4 that I stick with her. Also, I never use DIM or Smart Content - I have a very organised runtime exactly how I like it and don't want to be forced to put stuff elsewhere. So I manually download purchases and copy them to the folders. I don't use 3Delight either - all of my renders are done in Reality/Luxrender. I can't afford Octane but there are rumours that a very fast Luxrender is coming :)
I use an i7, 24GB RAM, iMac 2012 running Mavericks, by the way. This DS version crashes at least 4 or 5 times a session so I have got into the routine of saving every few minutes. I'd love to have a crash-free version but it is very important for me to be able to work with my saved scenes.
I also have Poser 10 (that also has also crashed several times) but I don't like working with that interface. So my question is: would I gain anything from updating to the new versions of DS? I know DAZ want me to buy into the Genesis world but I can't see that happening.
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Can't guarantee this will work for you, but based on my own experience, and what I have heard from others, when you get a mangled scene like that, all you need to do is save it, close and re-start DS, and load the new saved file, and it should work correctly.
I didn't get that far before I shrieked and found a previous version on my hard drive (I don't think DAZ allows downloads of older versions). It might be worth a risk if the newer versions are more stable.
A couple of concerns though - can I still install content without DIM?
Do I need to install a new database and how will that affect my existing content?
Also, does Reality 2.5 still work with the latest version?
There is a new database, but my understanding is that it's not mandatory. It installed fine for me, using DIM. You can learn more about it in this thread.
Thanks for pointing me to the database information. From what I can gather from that thread, the CMS is required for Smart Content but I don't use it. It suggests that this new CMS doesn't install if DIM is not used for the download/install - am I correct? Most of the conversation seems to about the WIndows version (talk about running a .bat file instead of DIM) but I have a Mac - is installation on a Mac without DIM possible?
The PostgreSQL isn't installed, even with DIM, unless you choose to install it. It is, however, much more stable than Valentina and, unlike Valentina, it doesn't have to run all the time as a background process. The main drawback is that it doesn't at this time work with Carrara.
I guess my question is, as indicated by my initial posts: do I need the database? What does it give me? I put my content in folders I have organised over several years. I know where everything is so I don't want some automated system taking away my freedom of choice.
All I am really looking for in an updated version of DAZ Studio is stability. Even though I have the habit of saving often, sometimes I forget and 3 hours work is obliterated. I don't need Genesis, CMS, Smart Content or improved 3Delight because I don't use any of them (apart form occasionally using a male Genesis figure because I have a very limited stock of M4 content).
I see the results people get with Poser and I am fascinated how they do that - I just find it so cumbersome to work with and the DAZ auto-fit, smoothing and collision makes fitting clothes - even on V4 - a whole lot easier than it used to be or than I can achieve with Poser 10.
If you mean "do I need the NEW database", No, you don't need the new database, you can keep using the old database. However, there seems to be a problem with the old database that could cause you to loose those years worth of careful content organization (if you organized them in the content library that is). Therefore, you really do want the new database; what it gives you is "not a corrupted database", hopefully. In terms of organizing your content, the new database works just like the old one, so it's not taking away your freedom of choice in any way that I know of.
If you mean "do I need ANY database", if you use the Content Library or smart content, then yes. If you use neither and just do File > Open or import or something for every single piece of content, if that's even possible to do, then I don't believe you need either of them.
To migrate from one to the other, I think there's some sort of migration tool, but you can also just back up your database and back up your content mappings, then uninstall the old one and install the new one, then import the your database and import your content mappings into the new database just like you normally did with the old database.
Well, that just shows that I don't really understand what the database does.
I use the folder tree to view my content - which is where I put it when I install it manually. I thought the database just controlled the Smart Content which, I thought, was a way of assigning content to a particular figure (V6, M5, A4, etc.).
So my content is in folders using the old Runtime structure. I buy a lot of V4 items from elsewhere which do not have the metadata required for Smart Content (again, as I understand things). Even when I buy from the DAZ store, I install it all manually. So - am I using the Content Database anyway? I don't remember starting the process running at any time but it is possible it starts automatically - I'll have to check. Even so, do I need it to be running?
[EDIT] - Just checked - the process is running ....
Yes, you are using it. To see what happens, try stopping your CMS. You will find that after a few seconds, your custom content will disappear from that view (leaving only "DAZ Studio Formats", "Poser Formats", and "Other Import Formats"), because the content management service is no long running, and therefore can't manage your content. (Incidentally, if you ever start DS and find your content seems to be missing from view, it might be because your CMS somehow stopped or didn't start; it doesn't necessarily mean your content is actually gone, just that it can't be seen at the moment.)
In the old Valentina database, you can stop it via Windows Start button > All Programs > DAZ 3D > DAZ Content Management Service > Stop DAZ Content Management Service (and in Windows XP you have to uncheck a message something like "protect my computer" when prompted).
or, In the new PostgreSQL database, in the Content Library tab, click the menu icon and select "Stop CMS".
Ah, if you didn't know you were using the database, then I'm going to hazard a guess that you also aren't backing it up yet along with the rest of your files. Right now, while you still have it, would be VERY good time to learn how. I'm going to paste in some of the steps I use (I actually do things slightly differently than you probably will) This may look complicated, but don't panic; after you do it once or twice, it will be super easy. I just have these saved in a text file and refer to them every time I do it.
Basically you are only doing two things; backing up the database, which stores all your custom content categorizations, and backing up your list of content path mappings. (If you only have one or two runtimes mapped, then you don't really need to back that part up, you can just write down where it is and re-enter it when needed, or maybe you are even using the default. I have hundreds of runtimes mapped, and thus must back them up.) When you restore from a backup, you are copying the backup files in place, then telling DS to use them.
==============create backups:================
DAZ STUDIO DIRECTORY MAPPING BACKUP: (which you might skip if you only have a few runtimes):
In the Content Library tab, click on the menu in the upper corner and select Content Directory Manager.
Click on the text "Current Directories".
Click the Copy button, wait a long time for it to complete, click on the text (not the radio button) of the new copy and press the Rename button and rename it "backup", press enter to save the new name, then press Accept. (this should create/update the file "C:\Users\\AppData\Roaming\DAZ 3D\Studio4\ContentDirectoryManager.dsx in Windows 7, different path in XP). back up this file.
DAZ STUDIO DATABASE BACKUP:
In Windows, go to your first mapped native DS content folder's support subfolder.,
From the Content Library pane's menu icon, select “Content DB Maintenance” > "export user data". (This creates UserData_1.dsx in your first mapped native DS content folder's support subfolder. ) Back up this file.
==================restore from backups:=========================
(These steps assume a clean install on a new computer. If your database already exists, but is messed up, and you are falling back to an older backup, you will want to first reset (erase) the database in DAZ Studio, so you aren't adding your good older backup on top of an existing newer bad database.)
INSTALL DIRECTORY MAPPINGS FILE: (you might be skipping this step if you only have one or two runtimes.)
Copy the backed-up ContentDirectoryManager.dsx into the application data folder:
XP: "C:\Documents and Settings\\Application Data\DAZ 3D\Studio4"
Windows 7: "C:\Users\\AppData\Roaming\DAZ 3D\Studio4")
, overwriting any existing ContentDirectoryManager.dsx .
INSTALL DATABASE FILE:
Copy the backed-up UserData_1.dsx into the runtime\support folder within the first mapped native DS content folder.
RESTORE DIRECTORY MAPPINGS FROM INSTALLED FILE (you might be skipping this step if you have only one or two runtimes)
In the Content Library pane, click on the menu in the upper corner and select Content Directory Manager.
Select the "backup" radio button and press Accept. It will take a short while, and will replace the values in "Current Directories" content set with the values in the selected backup set.
Go back into the Content Directory Manager, click on the text of "backup" (NOT the radio button) and press the Remove button. Press Accept.
IMPORT DATABASE FROM INSTALLED FILE:
From The Content Library pane's menu icon, select "Content DB Maintenance" > "Re-Import Metadata...". Press Accept, Accept again.
From The Content Library pane's menu icon, select "Content DB Maintenance" > "Consolidate file references". (cannot be combined with checkbox from previous step or it won't work. This is to avoid duplicate content thumbnails that otherwise appear in unassigned.)
From The Content Library pane's menu icon, select "Scan known directories for files", unchecking "Only New Items".
I have a Mac but I notice there is an app for stopping and starting CMS. I'll try stopping it tomorrow (a bit late now - bed time, in fact).
I'm not sure what you mean by custom content. What else do I have other than DAZ Studio and Poser Formats?
Thanks for the comprehensive responses though. I'll certainly try the backup too (I imagine the process is much the same on a Mac).
Any category you created yourself, and anyplace you have moved any content thumbnail. (If you have never create a category nor moved any content anywhere and you are just running off the default locations, I really don't know if that needs to be backed up or not; I don't know if it gets "added" to the default location by the install and would therefore be missing if you don't manually reinstall every product, or if they just get stuck there when DS is installed rather than the content.) For example, see this screenshot (in "view as tree" format); I've circled in red all the top level categories that I personally created that aren't defaults. Within those are thousands more categories or items of content I have moved there. Had I not done that, they would be scattered somewhere within Categories > default instead.
You'll have to figure out the paths for a Mac then, I don't know what they are. You can probably just do the exports to create the files, then run a search of your entire computer for the files you just created. In theory they should only be in that one spot, but if you find more than one of them, then you'll have to figure out which is the one you just created, check file dates or something.
Hi Marble :)
My hardware is i7-3770k, 32 Gb RAM running Windows 7 Ultimate and I've been running D|S 4.6.30.50 without any problems. I upgraded to 4.6.30.52 for a bit and like some users encountered problems, mainly Daz running very slowly. Because I don't use DIM I was able to reinstall 4.6.3.50 and it went back to running happily :-)
I export to LuxRender 1.2.1 via Reality and while I did upgrade very briefly to 1.3.1 I got weird string warnings that I never used to get in 1.2.1 so I went back to it.
I generally don't upgrade D|S till I encounter problems. All of my Gen 4, 5 and 6 figures run correctly. I recently had to reinstall D|S due to a hardware crash and even though I restored everything from an HDD I got weird results (no backgrounds, morphs or building block figures). Installing the Genesis and Genesis 2 starter essentials fixed it :-P
The last time I completely reinstalled was a little over a year ago when I moved from Windows to Mac. That was surprisingly painless - I just dumped the content folders into the Mac file system. So now I maintain a backup of the content folders.
I'm encouraged that you are running an updated version of DS but I don't think DAZ allow downloads of anything but the very latest so I might not be able to find 4.6.30.50.
I rin Luxrender 1.3 and get those warnings. I ignore them - just something to do with the syntax of displacement strings having changed - not an error, just a warning. Paolo has commented on it somewhere - probably on the RDNA forum.
Sean, I have never created any categories. I organise my content within the DAZ and Poser Formats folders. As long as I stick to the rules about not changing the location of Geometry or Texture files, I have a lot of freedom to make a sensible file structure.
Stopping the CMS didn't seem to have any effect. I can still see all of my content in the folder tree. I tried a search using both the folder and database options and neither found anything (I searched for "shirt"). Re-started the CMS and, again, neither found anything. I don't normally use search anyhow - I know where I have put things (one of the advantages of doing it manually).
I am using the tree view and manual install routine too and never used those databases ... works fine for me.
I have the CMS running for autofit and other things in DS that need it - but I don't use the database.
I like PostGre better than Valentina, because it only runs when DS is running.
Caveat: if you are using Carrara you still need the Valentina CMS.
So, it seems from the above that it might be worthwhile updating. I still don't want to hand over to DIM so can I install the application update using the Install Manager but not use DIM thereafter? Or should I attempt a manual install of the program on my Mac? I really don't want to be tied into the DAZ prescribed folder structure and content placement. And - if I use the new SQL database, am I then obliged to follow the DAZ way once again?
As you can see, I'm quite paranoid about DAZ taking control of my choices, no matter how much they claim to be making life easier.
I did use DIM to download AND install DS, the default lights and shaders and PostGre ...
else I am using DIM to download zips and unzip and rename folders and put them where I want. (Apart from data / Geometries / Textures as usual, of course)
Thanks!
That is exactly what I want to do (I think!). I didn't know (or didn't remember) that you can use DIM to download the zips - I always look for the manual download in the Product Library.
The upsides of downloading with DIM: it's faster than from the product library and you get the information about updated products that were downloaded with DIM.
I still have some thousands not downloaded, which is why I have to rely on update threads here in the forum.
In general, and this applies to all software, it's much easier to keep doing incremental upgrades than to do big jumps every now and then. Software continues to evolve and if you have any amount of time and money invested with one program it pays off to keep it up to date. Falling behind has several drawbacks:
- Issues with the OS can arise
- Issues with connected technologies can arise
- Compatibility can be hard to maintain
Of course, if there are bugs in a specific build then you can roll back but the idea is to wait until the bug is resolved and then try to upgrade again. Since you use Mac OS you can take advantage of Time Machine and roll back to previous versions with ease, using the OS' built-in utilities.
I suggest to download a build of Studio and keep it in a safe location, making sure that is clearly labelled. When upgrading, install the new version and save that one too. I usually keep three or four builds of Studio around, just in case. I have to say thought, that I did not need to roll back for years so Studio seems to be quite stable.
Keeping your software up to date is definitely worth doing.
Hope this helps.
I am doing that too - even when downloading and installing DS with DIM.
Grab the Zips for DS and the DefaultLightsandShaders from the DIM download folder and copy them to a safe location in a folder with the build number ... in case you want to go back.
The same goes for some plugins.
Yes, i am backing my system with Time Machine but I've never had to restore anything so I hope it is possible to just restore a single application. I also have a copy of the version of DAZ Studio I am using now but seem to remember that reverting was a bit tricky - I think I had to delete DS altogether and reinstall using the zips, Then re-enter the serial numbers for all the plugins.
OK - I have downloaded the DIM and it automatically downloaded and installed the application. It also put some content in a shared directory I never use (because it is not private nor controlled by my personal login). On the up side, my saved scenes now load without exploding - thank you DAZ!
A couple of quick questions:
1. I don't see any change in the CMS - the process is still running in the background as before and I see no mention of PostgreSQL in my process list. Should it be obvious? How do I know whether PostgreSQL is now being used?
2. What should I do with the DIM installed content? I didn't let it go ahead and download all the products but I have created a new place for DIM to put the content: in my personal DAZ file structure I have "My Library" and alongside that I have created a folder called "DIM Content" and changed the settings in DIM to make it install to that path. However, can I just move the stuff it has already installed to that folder?
[EDIT] I found that there is a separate package for PostgreSQL in my Product Library so I assumed it is a separate install. So I used DIM again to download/install it but there is no sign that DAZ Studio is actually using it. I have rebooted , etc. but the old CMS process is still running in my process list. I also downloaded/installed the convert tool but can't find that anywhere.
Installing PostgreSQL won't uninstall Valentina - it's left in place for Carrara. You can manually uninstall if you wish, but for now it is going to be reinstalled by any DIM updates. You can check which CMS engine DS is using several ways - look for Start and Stop commends in the Content Library pane option menu, or for a CMS Settings tab in the DS preferences dialogue, or for several PostgreSQL processes running while DS is running, or for PostgreSQL listed in the CMS connection line at the beginning of a DS session in the log file.
As for moving the items DIM installed to the public documents folder, it's best to let DIM uninstall them and then reisntall to the new location - both DIM< for uninstalling, and the CMS use absolute paths. DIM will sort by installation date so you should be able to find the block that used the old path fairly easily and select them all.
The log file shows:
Connected to CMS: PostgreSQL 9.3.4 on x86_64-apple-darwin, compiled by i686-apple-darwin11-llvm-gcc-4.2 (GCC) 4.2.1 (Based on Apple Inc. build 5658) (LLVM build 2336.9.00), 64-bit
But checking the other suggestions does not indicate what database is running. Can I go ahead and use the old Stop CMS app (for Valentina) that is installed on a Mac? Or should I use the stop command in the Content Menu? Or either? I only want to stop the old CMS, not the PostgreSQL one.
Having the options at all indicates that DS is using PostgreSQL - the preferences tab and the start/stop commands in the option menu are not available when using Valentina. You can, but don't have to, stop Valentina from the system level commands, not from the commands within DS.
I have several versions of Studio on my Mac. You just need to rename the folders where they are kept.