Toon Pro help!
Milo
Posts: 511
I downloaded Toon Pro! to try it out. I am trying to figure out how to make something decent with it. I know I am just working in the try out mode. I want to see if its going to fit my needs before purchase. I look in the gallery and there are several very nice renders from the white/blue outlined to the fully cell shaded robot.
I am trying to do something with Diamond (horse toon character) or perhaps even tumbleweed. Either I am timing out quick or just messing up badly. I tried going into the shader room and setting it to the toon shader and then what ever is associated with that shader pretty much disappears. I know there are 3 places. The Shader room, the effects tab and the render room.
Has anyone had much luck, or know of a tutorial or walk through on making use of this addon? What type of lighting etc.
I am attempting to get a head shot.
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Hi Milo
I tried the demo and it times out pretty quick
I bought it anyway and it works fione
I am not experienced enough in it to offer advice but the renders which ar eline only are very handy for ilustration purposes
I bought Toon Pro! years ago and I'm still very happy with it. It's very much worth the cost.
If you decide to buy it and still have questions, I'll be glad to share what I've learned.
:-)
Agree, it is well worth the money. I don't think you will be sorry.
Instead of using it in the shader room, try playing with the render room option (I think it let's you render out half a picture or something...). You can combine Toon with a photoreal render to get very specific effects.... Since everyone has a different idea of what "toon" should look like, and there are very few cartoons these days that don't include some kind of 3D shading, you could always post some links to a cartoon style you like and we can offer suggestions....
Other DCG plugins that might help achieve a satisfactory cartoon look include SHADERS PLUS (for the "Flat" lighting shader) and SHADER OPS (for Fake Fresnel).
It is a very good plugin and it woks great.
Parchment is another plugin that works nicely with the Toon!Pro one. Look at the DCG Tutorials for it.
You tube has some videos showing toon style renders done in Carra that you may want to look at..
The ones DutchWorkingMan are worth looking at
http://www.youtube.com/user/DutchWorkingMan/videos
I think cripeman has a toon tutorial video too for carrara.
You could also try YAToon for Carrara which is free.
32 bit C8
http://blog.zgock-lab.net/poser/yatoon/YAToon120C8x86.zip
64 bit C8
http://blog.zgock-lab.net/poser/yatoon/YAToon120C8x64.zip
Other Carrara versions
http://blog.zgock-lab.net/poser/yatoon/en/
Some people also combine Smith Micro's Anime Studio with Carrarra to help get good looking toon animation.
Sorry for the delay in replying had some medical emergency with our cat.
Thank you for the replies.
I think I am going to bite the bullet and buy it. My alternative is to hire an artist to do a line art drawing as well as shade it.
Head wax - Yeah if I could get to where the some of those Gallery renders are then it would I think accomplish what I want to do.
SmallFry - Thank you for the offer, I may just take you up on that.
holly wetcircuit - I will keep that in mind on the other shader they have that you mentioned. Just like I have Shoestring shaders but I haven't really used them. I ran across a little video on youtube using them to do some toon style shading that worked really well for animation and what they were showing.
Jay_NOLA - Thanks for the links. I downloaded cripemans video and have the others ready to go once I get myself more awake from dealing with this emergency. I do have the yatoon shader but didn't get very far with them either LOL.
I think also alot will depend on how the model is made if I am going to be able to make it work with the particular one I chose I will know more after I play around.
Thanks again for the replies. Once I get it and start banging my head into the wall I am sure I will send out a desperate call for help :D
Holly a special question for you.
How are you getting the paragraph returns to separate the lines. What code do you use? :)
Thanks
Actually I am just hitting the enter key an extra time. Leaving TWO empty lines creates a single empty line after you submit the post...
Hey all -- I'm doing the old "try it and see" with Toon Pro as well. Hoping to use it as a compliment to YAToon, which I'm also happy with.
But I'm having some major issues. When I get to changing the shader on a single item (say, a sweater), by the time I've changed the shader on the chest and sleeves, suddenly when I change a third (or at latest fourth) shader, the whole thing goes transparent (though alpha levels are still fine).
I then remove all of the shader changes, and when I start over, each item immediately becomes transparent when I change its shader to Toon Pro.
A secondary issue is that when I try rendering using the Toon Pro render, it's like it's not getting all the "blocks" completed, Like you know how the "processor blocks" appear when rendering an image? Well it will render the image, but only certain blocks end up having the Toon Pro render applied to them.
I'm assuming that this is a major glitch in the program and not something that's fixed by purchasing it.
Here's the render issue. Didn't touch any of the settings.
And you can see here how the shader goes transparent when changed to Toon Pro.
It actually times out pretty quick. I discovered this with a test shader file sent to me by the author when I asked a few questions.
What you need to do is Save then quit, Carrara and re-open then render. It does seem to save fine just goes de-active which makes it gone. Thats why it turns invisible. You can make your changes to color and such while its deactivated, you just don't get the interactive seeing the shader in that mode.
The renderer part that does every other block is also part of the non-serial number mode.
Hope that helps.
Hi,
I just bought Toon Pro yesterday and spent the whole day looking for the Set Cel Lighting Model. I have no idea where to find this, even though on Digital Carvers Guild site they say it should be under the Edit Menu. The plugin comes with no instructions and I have only found 1 tutorial online for it by Cripeman which is not in-depth. I have emailed DCG support, but they have not responded. I am new to this so any help would be much appreciated.
Thanks in advance.
The "lighting models" are actually a kind of shader tree in the shader room... the name is very misleading but it goes back to the days when your choices were "Phong Shader, Draft, and Wireframe...". It changed the fundamental way the shader interacts with any lights in your scene...
Other useful items under this menu are the Shadow Catchers, and Anisotropic Lighting Models...
Click on the very top of the shader tree (usually called Multi Channel) and the other options will come up.... See pic, I think that is the easiest way to say it...
Hi Holly,
Thank you for your response.
I suppose it is just a matter of playing with the settings until you get what you want.
It would be nice to see some renders that other people have managed to get out of using this plugin.
Thanks again.
Jaakay
There were some threads in the old forum that explored "toon" looks... I don't think anyone ever became an authority on it.... If you get some nice experiments maybe start a new discussion, or add them here?
There are a few methods to get Carrara to look more like an illustration, I bet a lot of people would have pics to contribute... ;)
I don't think I've ever encountered a more stupid and unfriendly way to trial a product than Toon! Pro's, it's ridiculous.
I do plan on buying the shader though
Here are two videos I stumbled across that show it off pretty well
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=UIwzp581y9w
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=pSR_BzNudTc
I'll post a couple of Toon Pro renders and you can tell me if it's what you're looking for. If so, I'll go into more depth.
So I wanted to start off with something that is pretty much straight out of Carrara w/ like 1% PS post, mainly for the lettering there and then I'll post some stuff that has a little more post work.
Here's something with more stylistic background effects, but still retaining the Carrara-only toon effect on the character. I like this method if you're doing an animation. Basically you'd just batch queue your PS files and render as a PNG sequence.
(FYI everything I do in Carrara is PNG images/sequences)
This is with post work to the actual character and a limited amount on the background. For non-animation, quick single images, this is probably my favorite style.
This is a more "dumbed down" version of the previous image. But a similar approach.
Not really a finished image, but something I'm in the process of finalizing for comic book work. Needs more post work between the sky and buildings. This would probably be the most "advanced" approach because it requires a lot of hands-on manipulating. For the average user (not looking to, say, publish comic book art), this probably isn't needed.
Here is using this approach with a moving image. Ironically, this wasn't really a "toon" test. It was just a general movement test as I'm still in the process of learning Carrara (aren't we all?) But this gives you a pretty good idea of what it looks like in motion.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=IuxLfOj3LmM
This was an early YAToon-only test. I found that, IMO, YAToon doesn't really hold up. The palette is odd to work with and seems limited.
(the background is non-CGI)
This is the same YAToon + ToonPro effect on a more toon-style character.
I've never used the Toon Land people (I think that's what they're called). But I assume it'd work pretty nicely on them.
I think if I were ever to seriously consider doing a "toon style" animation, I'd probably need another step in my workflow. I really like the overall pallet of the characters using YAToon and ToonPro, but that final line art layer that Cripeman developed is probably needed to really push it to the next level.
Though I believe (though I'd have to try it myself), that probably if you just duplicated the figure layer (PNG sequence) in AE and expanded it by, say, 5%, and then blacked it out to give a nice thick black line surrounding the character, that could certainly be sufficient. The key with ToonPro is that the *light* is the definition of the character. So light placement is key. You're basically creating form via shadows. The line art function in ToonPro, while I am completely smitten with it as far as solid, non-animal items (buildings, vehicles, robots, et al), is dangerously subpar for character work. I think you'd have a better time simply rendering out a "green screen" non-photorealistic "sketch" render (so, basically non-photorealistic on green background), and then keying out the green in AE and applying the sketch on top of your finished colors. But just like with ToonPro, you'll have to monitor the depth of your lines throughout. A line that works in a close up shot will completely drown out your character in a wide shot.
I think the biggest advantage for all us non-expert types is that when you're using toon type features, you can really get creative with what's accessible to you. I had this character that I needed to create for my series, but there's no way that I would have been able to create him to any considerable effect in traditional CGI style. But because it's more of a "toon" style, I can fudge on things like his big bushy hairy arm there.
Hi BC Rice,
First of all, thank you so much for posting all that work. It is great to see!
My problem is this, I use a program called Anime Studio. I don't draw very well so tend to trace some of my characters and then I have to bone rig them and make sure that everything is working well. This can be very time-consuming. I decided I would try and mix 2D and 3D together to try and make animations, however I like the toon look. I thought, rather than rigging my characters in Anime Studio, I would use some of my 3d content and toonify them so that I can work with both programs together. I quite like the image with the Scout in the green shirt as he looks very toonified (if that is a word) :-) and would blend in with a 2d environment.
It would be really nice to know exactly what settings you used and also what you do with the lighting to get this look.
I agree that saving out to a png sequence is the best way. I can then import this sequence into Anime Studio.
Thanks again for uploading all those lovely images.
Jaakay
I think you mean the little toon looking guy? Like the one that isn't a traditional DAZ model?
All of these are done in the same fashion. The only difference is that the ones with the line art are created using FLASH/PS. Whereas the ones without the lineart are almost exclusively rendered in Carrara.
Here's the breakdown as quick and dirty as I can give it, and I've attached another pic to sort of inform the context:
1) Go to your model's hierarchy. Click just undernearth the model name (e.g. Victoria). Click on "MODEL. From the top tabs, click SHADERS. That will give you the list of everything you need to change. And yes, you need to change everything. Individually, by hand.
2) Click on your first shader. Say, "SkinTorso". You will then be in the TEXTURE interface.
3) Change the TOP SHADER to MULTI-CHANNEL MIXER (it can be found under the bottom COMPLEX SHADERS tab)
4) You will now have two SOURCES. One source will be near the bottom of the other one, so it's easy to miss. Once you click the arrow it will open like the first one. Once each source shader is completed, I'd advise closing them both to keep things tidy.
5) Go to SOURCE ONE. This is where you will swap MULTI-CHANNEL for TOON PRO.
6) Go to SOURCE TWO. This is where you will swap MULTI-CHANNEL for YATOON
7) If you haven't done so already, Clear out any TEXTURES and BUMP MAPS from your MULTI CHANNEL shader tab located under SOURCE ONE and beneath TOON PRO. You made need to do the same under SOURCE TWO, depending. These should be replaced by your own textures or solid colors. Gradients are pretty pointless. Just make sure that when you're using a color, you write down or remember the color's numbers you're using. I like to click on the little color box so that the in-depth guide appear, and after I have a color I like, I then round all of the numbers to a solid digit so it's easier to remember as I move through an asset's shaders.
8) Under SOURCE ONE, click on the TOON PRO tab. Here you make your adjustements based on whether the asset you're changing is skin or clothing. The picture attached shows the importance of undulation and gradation in skin/hair tones -- a gradation that doesn't apply as well to clothing.
a) TOON PRO SKIN SETTINGS: Shadow/Highlight: 25 - 1000%
Levels: 1
Shadow Brightness: 60%
b) TOON PRO CLOTH SETTINGS: Shadow/Highlight: 55 - 1000% (varies for darkness of cloth)
Levels: 1
Shadow Brightness: 30%
9) Under SOURCE TWO, click on the YATOON tab. Here there is no need to distinguish between skin and cloth. Being off by even a few digits can change your render from having a nice, smooth two-tone look to just looking terrible and pixelated.
a) YATOON SETTINGS: Brightness 80, Softness 100, Edge 100, Line Edge 70, Line Hardness 20, Specular 5, Specular
Softness 100, Specular Edge 100, Line Brightness 75
10) Close SOURCE ONE and SOURCE TWO tabs by clicking their corresponding arrows. At the bottom of the hierarchy will be the BLENDER tab. Click that and set your value at 50%/
This is the brief and quick to it. You'll need to do this for every single shader. So, for instance, if a hair model has 10 parts, you'll need to do this to each of its ten parts.
I'll address further your additional workflow in a moment.
So for your workflow, blending 3D and traditional animation is certainly a possibility, but the look you'd end up with would be very specific and you would have to decide what your (realistic) end goal would be.
If you're just doing ninjas or robots that don't speak or something, that you can probably accomplish using the format I supplied here. You can apply that to any model you utilize inside Carrara.
If you're looking to adapt your 3D images to blend with your traditional plate and have speaking roles, et al, you might end up getting into something more severe. I went down a similar path, but in the end I decided to keep the two worlds separate on the project I'm working on.
I've attached what would have been the final character result of a Carrara/Flash blended character. To me, even with the assistance of Mimic Pro for lip sync, it made more sense to simply utilize a traditionally rigged Flash head in conjunction with a 3D body. But in order for them to line up effectively, the only option is the dreaded ROTOSCOPE. That means you'd have to frame-by-frame trace your character. There is no rendering scenario wherein you'd line up perfectly with any artwork you created digitally. Not even on the major studio level.
I decided that it was better for my sanity to simply hand draw all of the key frames and then store them in a "symbol" and reference as needed. I'm not sure how your animation program is put together, but most programs allow you to pile a bunch of key frames inside of a symbol so you can simply reference those key frames when needed -- like when lip syncing, etc.