Carrara 8.5 pro and lipsync
lenwilder
Posts: 188
Spent the weekend with MarkBremmer Tutorial on Carrara 7.
Amazing... the way he has structured the tutor. I bought the DVD from VTC.com, so I can view when I travel.
I really made a good decision, because I can say already the tutor is loaded with information.
Information and methods of working with Carrara that I will have to watch many times and work along with the work files.
The tutor isn't for the latest version, but my gosh what a pile of information.
I do understand Carrara is a Swiss Army Knife of animation tools. I can't wait to learn enough to pump out some projects.
IMO, without a good tutorial you could waste about 2 years trying to get your head around Carrara. Watching youtube videos that are unorganized snippets of information only make for confusion.
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I've not read anything on Lipsync, importing audio voice scripts into Carrara timeline. I only do video production, so lipsync is critical area for me. I use the Lipsync in iclone with every project. Yes, I use Sony Vegas Pro, Hitfilm, NewBlueFX as well for final renders.
I use the Sony Vegas Pro for building my audio files from scripts and import into the inclone timeline at the start of each new project.
There has been some mention of animating for video in the tutor. I have not seen anything about lipsync and facial animation at this point, but I just finished the section on Vertex modeling.
I may be getting ahead of myself, but this is important to me.
Is lipsync possible with Carrara 8.5 Pro?
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Comments
Yes it is. If you create your own characters, then you will need to make morphs to shape the mouth. If you use DAZ or Poser style figures, the viseme morphs are already made. Then there's the lip sync software- I'm having a senior moment and am blanking on the name- Anyway, DAZ sells a standalone version and a Carrara version to automate the process.
Excellent... I probably will use pre-built characters, because I dont' want to have to create clothes and stuff for them.
I have seen the part about Poser and Daz characters, which doesn't mean zip to me at this point.
I got a promotion email to buy Michael 6 for $10. Is that something I should do? Should I buy the core characters to establish a character base? That is something that is a requirement in iclone. You have to buy the generation 5 characters and clone cloth. Then you can apply textures to the clone cloth patterns. Some think this is robbery, but that just goes with iclone.
Iclone 3DXchange application now allows migration of Daz, and other animated characters into iclone. I"ve not done that, but I suspect the clothing will have to come through the Xchange with the character. I will have to check into that.
Haven't seen the Mark Bremmer tutorials but I got all I needed from PhilW's set of tutorials:
http://www.daz3d.com/carrara-8-5-tutorial-video-11-5-hours-long-instant-digital-download
http://www.daz3d.com/advanced-carrara-techniques
http://www.daz3d.com/carrara-realism-rendering-training-video
I would say Phil's set comprise the swiss army knife for getting up and running with Carrara. Since you've already spent some money on tutorials, you might want to check out the free videos on the infiniteskills website and wait around for when Phil's tutorials go on sale again so you can get them at a discount if you need them. I think EvilProducer was trying to tell you about Mimic Pro: http://www.daz3d.com/mimic-pro-for-carrara. You can search on youtube for tutorials on using Micmic Pro in Carrara, that should help you out. What I also do is to spend an awful lot of time scouring this forum for tips. It's a gold mine around here!
Goldmine for sure.
From what I have experienced so far... I would say it is fair to say I may buy every tutor I can find. I am Carrara amazed.
The tutor version I have is Carrara 7 Pro, which is the last version Mark Bremmer has done.
I probably should have bought Phil's set, but I liked the way Mark Bremmer presented his materials. I felt with the way I learn and the way he presents... it was the best go for me, even though it was the Carrara 7 version.
Yes, good idea of course to watch for sales on the tutorials. I will certainly do that. How cheap have you seen the prices go? Also, on the MImic have you ever seen it go at reduced prices?
As I mentioned before, my purpose is producing video only. I would appreciate to read any information or suggestions for video production. That would naturally include content and application items that would help.
You need the mimic pro plugin for carrara
if you keyframe your visemes using iClone facial bones and create an animation group for your chatacter you can save them as nla clips and use those in the plugin
I myself simply use motion plus in iClone to save my speech and import that in the fbx from 3dx5 pipeline
is so much simpler, if you use the same character you can create an animation group for the character and can save all the animations as nla clips too to reuse and isolate the head bones.
I save them labled by character ie Gwynn, Chuck, Violet etc they only work on the same generation character though but they can be variations with head facial fitting and different body shapes.
Oh it HAS to be C8.5 not C8.1
the latter makes a right mess of iClone FBX imports.
We have beautiful and interesting experiments of Joe Pingleton and 0oseven on Carrarators, perhaps could you find some useful tricks ?
http://www.bond3d.byethost18.com/index.php?board=43.0
If you are not in a hurry, you can get most stuff at half price at some point, or even more. To get your animation groove on, I'd suggest you subscribe to: https://www.youtube.com/channel/UCNm-mszn_0h3cDSa0I9ViDw and catch up with his previous videos and tutorials. Amazing and generous work he's done sharing his work and explaining everything.
Wendy
Sure was hoping to avoid a purchase of pipeline. The 5 version was put on sale awhile back at just over $200. Pretty steep for a conversion user that isn't using Unity or game engines. The iclone 6 pipline is probably going to come in around $400+ as 5.5 version did.
I was hoping I could use 3dxchange for import daz characters into iclone, along with other items from Carrara. It was probably optimistic on my part to think there was alot of work I could do in Carrara that could be migrated into iclone.
Now I am beginning to think it might be best to start considering Carrara more seriously...even for video production.
Anyway... have to wait keep leaning Carrara until I can see my way through this. Definitely, everyone has been alot of help on this forums.
That should go a long way to understanding Carrara.
Thank you
Having just read through this thread quickly, I can make a couple of points:
I'm really pleased you are happy with your Carrara purchase. You will need to continue immersing yourself in it for a while - as I have been doing and need to do.
But I think you'll find it refreshing to do some small clips in Carrara and give iclone a break. At other times it will be the other way round. That's how it is for me.
In terms of creating your films, I think you will probably get them done more in iclone, because that's your background. But if you use DAZ assets in Carrara and take them into iclone, you could get the best of both worlds. That is how I've come to look on Iclone as a possible prototyping tool for the great work I keep intending to do in Carrara.
I believe Michael 6 is a Genesis2 figure and I'm not sure if 3dXchange5 converts Genesis2 for Iclone.
If you shape and clothe Genesis within Carrara or DAZ studio, you can export as .FBX for taking into iclone. The same goes for props, buildings, sets. Again, you can switch back and forth between the programs and see the different strengths of each program to suit your needs. You can make your own animated props for Iclone within Carrara.
Lastly, I mentioned before that Phil's excellent training was on Amazon as a bundle at a great price when I bought it.
The best way to get DAZ figures into iClone is via DAZ studio
and they all work just some need more manual setting up, genesis is automated with the facial animation .duf file
but for self modeling rigging stuff and bringing into iClone carrara is good
I was thinking you wanted to animate iClone figures in carrara and you can, but of course THAT requires pipeline.
Certainly I myself go more the other way rendering carrara made stuff in iClone.
I especialy make spring props as they work better than DAZ rigged ones which tend to bunch up or fly apart wildy unless conformed to a figure as childbones.
Prop hairs are something I rig in carrara adding bones to locks and ponytails that can be given spring in 3dx5 pro.
Just coming back to lip sync - you can try using Mimic Pro but I have had hit and miss results with it, the lip sync isn't that great at times. If you want a really professional result, I think you need to do it by hand. Carrara has all the tools you need for this, you can load in a sound file and then use the phoneme morphs to set key frames. It is not that difficult but it can be time consuming, but I think you will get the best results that way.
And thanks guys for the kind words about the training. I am aware that here is demand for an "Animation in Carrara" set and I previously have not done that as most of the work I have tended to do has been for still images. But I am currently working on a complete animated short (involving lots of lip sync!) and I am thinking that I may do a training set next year on animation which passes on all the things that I am learning on this project.
I have to agree, I use iClone in preference to DAZ, Poser and Carrara for facial animation involving speech, using a sound file
expressions yes, they work well esp using puppeteer and if a dialogue unneeded probably the way to go for animated appearance of speech
the automated stuff in mimic just looks too stilted
the best results I have seen use mocap like Zign, Faceshift, Mixamo face plus or Brekel, hopefully Facerig too will become a viable option for export.
I agree with Wendy that iClone seems just so much more convenient for animation, not just lipsynch, but the whole thing, pretty intuitive, not that Carrara can't do the same stuff (most of the time) but it's just not as convenient. The camera switch track in the timeline editor for examples is so simple, yet so powerful, as an animator, you can go ahead and edit your shots in real time as you are composing them rather than waiting to get into a video editor to do that. That does wonders for story telling, simply puts you at ease with the process. So I'm wondering if Carrara has a camera switch alternative because it (or something close) might be there and I just don't know about it. Which is why your tutes on animation will be always welcome. Any opportunity to learn how much more awesome an awesome tool is would always be welcome!
I'm not an iClone user so I am not 100% sure what the camera switch track does, but you can get the effect of switching cameras a couple of different ways. Let's say you have a 4 second animation and want to change cameras at the 2 second mark.
Way 1 - Set up two cameras, set the render range from 0-2 secs and the render camera to be the first camera, then render the animation. Now set the render range to be 2-4 secs, set the render camera to be the second camera and render again. It is then just a matter of splicing the two clips together.
Way 2 - Set up the two camera positions but using the same camera - position 1 at 0 secs and position 2 at 2 secs, and then ensure that the camera tweener is set to "Discrete". This steps from one to the next key positions without any transitional frames. You can therefore render the whole thing in a single render.
I don't think either of these is a lot of work.
Way 2- seems more like what the camera switch track makes possible in iClone, will try this out to confirm. There we have it, proven need for your animation tutes, some of us can't figure these things out without PhilW tutes!!!!! Thanks.
I never use camera switch in iClone myself, it is just as easy to render two videos from different cameras and then if I change my mind later as to where to splice them I can if am doing so.
I do do 1 frame changes in carrara however as it takes longer to render so am not as generous with footage.
I set a keyframe one frame then move camera elsewhere the next frame usually set up by directors camera first then add another keyframe.
I read you Wendy. Apart from scrimping on footage, I like the camera switch approach for being able to actually start cutting the footage from inside the 3d animation tool itself, so I can see exactly what the assembled sequence would look like in real time and make changes in the animation / camera work if necessary to improve the story telling. And good enough, if when adding effects and final compositing in the video editing suite I notice I need additional footage, I can always go back to render exactly what I need. But that's just the way I have found convenient to do it, I'm happy to now learn how to do that in Carrara too.
Besides Mimic for Carrara which is a proprietary app that automatically (and perhaps mechanically) matches the visemes to the actor's voice, there are apps which you can use to capture LIVE the expressions on your face with the Kinect camera, of which IMO Faceshift is the most advanced. It can track 48 blendshapes. But I'm not sure if the road to get Faceshift visemes into Carrara might not be bumpy. They make a plugin to get them into Motionbuilder, for example, but there is no such plugins for Carrara. Therein lies the rub. With Brekel Pro face, you can save as a pz2, but the quality is not too good (only about 10 blendshapes).
Of course, there are apps like Zynn tack and Mixamo which use an ordinary webcam , but then you have to deal with positioning markers all over your face. I prefer the Kinect.
Faceshift is quite expensive if you use it professionally ( from $800 to $1500 a year), but they have an unlimited non-commercial license for $150.