Organizing Content similar to DAZ Studio?
WsCG
Posts: 391
Hullo,
I thought there was a thread, or a guide or something going over this here on the forums, but I wasn't able to find it. So, forgive me if asking this is redundant.
In short, I'm trying to figure out how to install content for Carrara in a way where it's organized similarly to DAZ Studio.
In other words, each component has its own dedicated folder. So, I can go down the line of picking the figure, then a particular shape/material, then clothing, clothing textures, and so forth.
I've tried setting up a variety of different content folders through DIM dedicated to a given category, and then adding them separately through the Content tab. But that approach seems to break a number of things, so they don't work together, or work at all.
Installing everything and letting DIM organize it results in a mess of folders and subfolders, and things buried where you wouldn't necessarily expect to find them, so I really want to avoid that.
I intend to work primarilly with V4 and M4 generation figures, so that's what I'm most interested in getting working. I can also set up a separate folder for creatures and such.
I'm working through DIM primarily, but if there's a way to do it manually, I'm game to give that a shot, too.
Thanks
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Comments
I did write an article a while back:
Daz Install Manager - Installing Custom Poser Runtimes
Basic walkthrough of designing your own custom runtime structure
However, something about your post sounds a little odd to me.
Seeing that you're mostly interested in generation 4, this doesn't seem right. Genesis 1 and newer might have issues with being installed to odd locations, but I've even heard people having success with that too, but I don't try it. I like all of my Genesis and newer type of content to be installed in one place so I can control the data easier.
V4, M4, K4, etc., etc., are all made for earlier versions of Poser, which works beautifully with Carrara as well.
A friend of mine made separate runtime folders for things like Hair, This kind of clothing, That kind of clothing, Skin Textures, Props, etc.,
I warned him that this would ultimately become more of a frustration than an organizational benefit. He eventually kinda gave up entirely.
I prefer to keep all of my V4 content in a single runtime, simly named "V4".
There are a lot of variations to V4 - G4, A4, SP Elite 4, etc., etc., and some products install items for all of them. So separating these sorts of things can quickly become problematic.
Hair is one of those things. Some hair products work for both V4 and M4. In those cases, I install that hair product to the runtime that makes the most sense for what I would use the hair for. So if I'm buying (or otherwise acquiring) the hair for male figures, I'll install to my M4 runtime, etc.,
I give an example of the runtime structure I was using when I wrote that article. Here's what has been helping me out for the last ten+ years:
I like to keep the separate runtimes fairly broad in scope. Becoming to specific can create gray areas when installing and, if it's a gray area when installing, it gets Much worse in time, when trying to find something.
Example of my structure:
A nice vague category that can hold anything from a tree to a kitchen garbage can. Yes, I use this runtime to install all environments and the things that are made to go into them. Space stations have been a gray area for me, so I do it this way: If it's not a vehicle, it goes into Environments. So in a sense, I have some environments in my Vehicles runtime because it's the interior of a star ship - or at least that's what I want to use it for.
Another gray area that was coming up is props of various types. So I made a Weapons runtime, which in my understanding is short for Weapons, gadgets, and other things that a character mights carry around with them. So I might put my luggage in there along with musical instruments, hand tools, etc.,
These things used to either go into Environments or the figure (V4, M4, etc.,) runtime that they were made for. But these things can truly be used by any figure. Suitcases and such all went into Environments. It was fine. Sometimes I still put them in there. But if I catch myself doing so now, I use DIM and uninstall it and put it into Weapons instead.
I think that Daz Studio users must be trained into using Smart Content more than anything, because finding modern environments and such is really kind of crazy if we just install all DUF items into a single spot - which is what I do. Changing installation paths won't clear it up either, because the issue is that there doesn't seem to be an absolute 'rule of thimb' given to the PAs for where to put the stuff within the My Daz 3d directory.
An example is that some environments might be under Props, and then under Environments within Props, and then inside Architecture. This seems odd since there's already a spot for Environments and Architecture. I can see how it all started: "I see the Environments folder, but this is a prop"
So I've really come to use DIM a lot when using DUF content - just to figure out where the hell it is!
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Words of advice
I know that everybody has different needs. Truly everyone in this forum uses Carrara differently than the next.
That said, try not to labor yourself over too many individual specifics.
Some separation really helps, though. Not all products have initials for the figure its meant to be used with in the title, like "Casual Wear for V4". It might just say "Springtime". So when we're looking for a new costume for our background scene guy, if we had all Generation 4 stuff in the same folder it could be quite the time-consuming and frustrating event! So I like to have my three Generation 4 categories - Males are under M4, Females V4, and children K4.
Animals are a different beast to deal with. The only separation I have done so far for animals is Dragons. So aside from Dragons, all other animals go into my Animals runtime.
Previous Generations
I'm using the Genesis 1 platform since it can truly wear any darned thing. This has got me back into buying more legacy items. A lot of the Generation 3 and earlier clothing came with an amazing amount of fitting morphs, since auto-follow wasn't a thing yet.
I keep these even more broad - all Generation 3 stuff that I buy goes into "Millennium 3" and ealier stuff goes into "Mil 1 & 2"
I don't have an enormous collection of that stuff so it's still really simple to find what I'm looking for.
Hi, Dartanbeck.
Thanks for the response.
Yeah, I found that the morphs didn't work, and other things didn't want to load and threw up errors about files missing, etc. If it's all meant to live in the same folder/runtime, then that explains why that was happening.
So, you don't find the setup confusing when you install everything into the same folder or runtime? I feel like it's confusing to find stuff. I dunno, maybe it just takes getting used to. I guess DAZ's smart content setup has spoiled me.
So, you find Genesis is a strong(er) generation to go with?
I like to keep things as simple and orderly as possible. Being able to stick to one Generation of figures is ideal. So, if Genesis provides the variety and quality, then I could stick with that. I went with V4 because I'd read it's really compatible with Carrara, but I'm by no means married to it. I just want to get set up so I can start creating.
Anyhow, I'll keep chipping away at it.
Thanks again.
I've installed V5 and, so far so good. Everything's working, and the folder structure seems better organized than V4 did. Or, at least I'm having an easier time finding stuff.
I do have a related question, since it's to do with content.
Most of the content I've purchased has been for Genesis 8 or Genesis 3 figures. I don't have as much for Genesis/V5 figures. So I'm looking to make a few purchases as kind of a "booster" of content to work with, but I'm curious about compatibility with Carrara specifically.
For example, I found this:
https://www.daz3d.com/victoria-5-elite-ponytail
Will that work okay with Carrara? Asking because I don't see it listed in the 'Compatible Software' list.
Thanks yet again
Yes. In fact it will work quite well.
Genesis 1 is The One Genesis figure that is fully compatible in Carrara. Development never did quite get Genesis 2 perfected, but they work as well, except for one important issue for me - since I need this stuff to work:
The Auto-fit system for Carrara hasn't been developed far enough to recognize the difference between different generations of Genesis, so auto-fitting from one Genesis generation to another simply doesn't work. The Fit To dialog never opens, it just conforms the item wrongly without hesitation.
There's a simple fix for this, if you like using Genesis 2 over Genesis 1: Simply create a Genesis 1 version of the other generation clothing using Daz Studio.
I've written some nice articles on both subjects:
Genesis 1 Rocks!!! is all about why I prefer Genesis 1, and how I am able to use Genesis 1 to be virtually any generation of Genesis figure, and wear virtually any clothing.
Content Generations Conversion is all about using Daz Studio's tools to create clothing from newer Genesis (2-8) clothing that fits, and works with Genesis 1. I create my own listings in Daz Studio's library for these new items under the People > Genesis > Clothing category.
Just know that some Genesis 8 stuff doesn't convert well to Genesis 3, in which case we'll either not be able to use that as clothing, or we'll have a bit more work to do before we get there.
For things that I really want from Genesis 8 that doesn't like to convert (which is due to the A pose instead of the T pose - likely a weight mapping issue, so I need to learn weight mapping in Daz Studio - all in good time!) I simply give Genesis 8 a T pose and export the clothing item as an OBJ, then bring that OBJ back in onto Genesis 2 or 3 and use the Transfer utility to turn it into a conforming cloth. Then I convert that down to a Genesis 1 cloth.
Or if I'm converting clothing made for a male figure, I can do the above process directly to Genesis 1 instead of first converting to Genesis 2 or 3. This is because Genesis is fully unisex, and defaults at the male shape. So when converting female clothing, the Transfer Utility provide a method to subtract the female shape during conversion for us, which is very handy!
I did a few conversions directly to Genesis by importing the object (OBJ) into Carrara, and shaping away the female shape using the modeler, which can also be even better (if not more work) than the automated process. But the automation of Daz Studio usually does a wonderful job.
Here's a little video I made that might have some helpful hints, and my site (Dartanbeck.com) has a lot of info that I feel compelled to write while I'm waiting for renders to finish:
Additionally, our very own Misty has made presets of Genesis 3 and 8 for Carrara compatibility:
Genesis 3 and 8 figures in Carrara
I guess it does take some getting used to. After doing this for so long it just feels like breathing! LOL
The "Runtime" structure is a Poser thing - and originally Daz Studio was being born as a replacement for Poser, since it was looking like Poser was going to become discontinued. So up until Daz Studio 3, it was using the same Poser Runtime sort of file system.
It still reads the structure, since so many legacy Daz 3d products rely on that - and it's nice to have compatibility.
I haven't had a fresh copy of Poser since Poser 6, but it has some handy things that happen when we go to save something to a specific part of the runtime strucure. For example, when saving to the hands folder, it makes a right and left version of the hand pose. When applying one, it asks which hand to apply the pose to. When we save to the Props folder, it asks if it is a Smart-Prop, and if we want it to load to the parented part of an object. Saving to the Face folder won't store any data that isn't specific to the facial morphs of a figure. Handy little things like that.
But 'knowing' where to find stuff becomes the trick. DIM is my pal for that because I can just search for the product, right-click on it and tell it to show the installed files, and I know exactly where to look.
Figure folder
Displays as "Characters" in the Poser interface, this is for rigged figures - figures that have a skeleton. Most of the clothing we've become familiar with in the hobby/profession are "Conforming" cloth - meaning that they hold the same skeleton as the intended target figure - rigged figure. So the Figure folder holds conforming clothing and hair as well as our people and anything else that has a skeleton.
Props folder
This is for static props that don't have a skeletal rig. Since Poser's Dynamic Cloth was(is?) static, we found our dynamic cloth in here as well. With the ability to store things as Smart-Props, this is also where we'll find guns and other accessories that attach to the figure as a static piece, as opposed to something that follows the movements of the joints in a figure.
Hair folder
Well that's confusing. Didn't you just say that conforming hair is found in the Figure folder? Yep. I did. Hair in this section are static. The handy design of this folder is that it parents to the head of the selected figure. It's been a long time, but I think that there was a subfolder to this one called "Dynamic Hair", which is where we'd store and load Poser's Hair Room hair.
Poses
Seems straight-forward enough at first glance - this folder is where we go to find poses for our figures. But there's more to it than that.
The Poses folder in the runtime structure holds the power to be able to apply 'changes to the figure or prop'. Unless we're using Poser, when we want to make a file that changes the textures and perhaps other fun things, we'll use this Poses folder - Daz 3d's MAT poses are pose files that contain materials. Poser has a Materials folder in the runtime that doesn't show up in Carrara because Carrara can't use Poser's material (MC6) files. Poses folder files are called PZ2.
I do. I really, really do. But that's not to say that it's the only - or even the best choice available. Everyone has their sweet spot, and Genesis 1 is mine... at least right now it is!
Here's a bit of the magical experience I get from using this incredible piece of technology:
Compatibility
Genesis 1 works Very Freaking Well in Carrara!
I was in the public beta testing of Carrara 8.5 and really loved Genesis. It was still too new to me to switch my main character workflow to them, so I stuck with M4 and V4. But they made Genesis compatible with pretty much everything sold in the store!
Carrara can open older Poser files (and modern ones too, just not the modern weight mapped rigged figures. No biggie... Daz 3d's got the best articulated CG human anyway!)
It can also open Daz Studio DUF files, but there's a catch. Some DUF items just don't work in Carrara. It's not the content creator's fault either, simply because 'working in Carrara' isn't one of their priorities. No fear, however, if you buy something that you want to use in Carrara and it doesn't, Daz 3d will allow us to return it for that reason alone.
Carrara 8.5 upgrade was being developed after Daz Studio 4.0 and Genesis 1 were in their final stages of becoming official releases. The "DSF" format wasn't working for Carrara, so the newer "DUF" format was created to enable their own means of compatibility. Boring stuff, to be sure, but it just helps to illustrate why Genesis 1 works so well compared to the newer ones that didn't have the luxury of Carrara active development.
Versatility
Being the ultimate example of creating a Unimesh figure ("Unimesh" was the name that Genesis was going to be at first), Genesis is a true Sub-D cage, like the newer generations, capable of handling massive amounts of change without detroying the rig (each joint that bends, etc.,) so they made all sorts of crazy-awesome shapes for this thing. Yeah, they're doing that with newer Genesis, but make something like that for Genesis 1 and you have something that can be male or female with the flick of a dial, and it can wear clothes from male and female collections - and they just take on the new shape! Magic!
I grabbed every Clone I could get my hands on. Just a couple weeks ago I completed my generation-swapping clone collection (so far) with SickleYield's Genesis 3 Male clone for Genesis. So now I can officially use clothing from Generation 3 (M3, V3, etc.,) through Genesis 8 (not 8.1 yet) and unofficially, auto-fit doesn't do a bad job with most generation 1 and 2 figures.
For an example, I just bought this Hiro 3 outfit for my Rosie character. I'm finishing up my first animation render using it on her - and it looks great!
Then, after animating my figure, I run them through VWD Cloth and Hair to simulate the cloth with the animation.
I love some of these older generation 3 clothing items.
For Rosie I only wanted the shirt, but look at all of the other cool pieces that can be used on other characters!
Just getting this makes me want to make a guy that looks just like the promo image!
in the old old poser days. the figure would load from its own folder called 'character'.
the shaders for the outfit was in the 'pose' folder.
sometimes the non-rigged parts of an outfit, like a hat, would be in a 'props' folder.
for the older poser content, its okay to move the stuff together that's under 'libraries'.
the 2 folders 'geometry' and 'textures' cant be moved. if you move those folders the loaders lose the path to geometry and textures
move the poses, props, and 'mat' files all tother if you like.
stuff in poser's 'materials' folder doesn't work in carrara or ds,
most things have shader/mats in the pose folder.
for carrara, use the mat file from the 'pose' folders (*.pz2)
Here i have my poser folders in the 'runtime' folder of my daz content.
Here is the 3du penguin in poser files.
I've moved the mat files in with the character folder. and moved the pose folder.
in carrara it shows all in one folder in the content tab. i never used the smart tab, too high brow for me.
on the hard drive, the folder is named character.
in carrara, the same folder shows up as figures
Thanks for the replies and info!
All that cross-generational stuff is a bit dizzying for me to wrap my head around for now.
This is why I'm choosing one Character "base" to work with, and sticking with that - at least for the time being. When I'm more comfortable with the Carrara ecosystem and how Daz figures play within it, I can expand. But for now, "Keep It Simple" is the dictum I'm operating by. So, I'll be sticking with Genesis 1 for now.
I do still have the question of knowing what is compatible with Carrara, specifically. I linked this above: https://www.daz3d.com/victoria-5-elite-ponytail. Is that usable? I don't want to purchase items if they won't be compatible - even if DAZ would refund them. I rather avoid purchasing them in the first place.
I did purchase a variety of "morph packages" for Genesis some time back, A3 and H3, A4 and H4, and a few others. Just playing with the sliders, mixing and matching those various options, I'm gonna be busy coming up with characters.
I've been scrolling through DIM, and I have a lot more stuff for Genesis than I realized. So, I can at least see what I can come up with for that for now.
Thanks!
@Mystara
Thank you for that illustration/explanation.
That will be very helpful at some point, I'm sure. Especially if I should start creating content I'd like to share with others.
For now, like I said above, I'm keeping things as simple as possible. Carrara's a massive piece of software as it is!
Thanks!
Yep, that ponytail works. Sorry about that. All of those extra words I wrote afterwards must have hidden my initial answer!
I get... well... Talkie! LOL
I've used Smart Content in Carrara for over 4 years now. It works very well.
Genesis 3 presets (Janette and Johnathon) are no longer available.
Really? I'm glad I bought them when I did then! Hmmm... I wonder why?
No fear! There's another way!
it's been a dead product for the last year. didnt see a point of keeping them up
That's too bad. I was ready to give up on Carrara until Genesis 3 Presets were released. Now, I work almost exclusively with G3, mostly because MightyMite has released so many superhero outfits for them. I find G3 easier to work with and much more stable than either G2 or Genesis. Thanks for keeping my hobby alive!
if you feel there is more life in the presets, i'll put them back up.
honestly thought they were dead, they were looking so lonely out there.
i would like to do a full character set for them. its fun thinking up names.
Jonjon. Yohann. JeanJean. Ms Kangaroo. Mr Rooter
The way I found out about the product no longer being available is that I went to Rendo to finally buy it.
You never know when people will buy. If keeping the item in the store doesn't cost anything, why remove it?
In the bigger picture, Janette and Johnathon have become part of the Carrara lexicon. Information websites are linked to the sales site. In dozens of posts on the Daz forums, people have responded (as Dart did) to questions about G3 functionality in Carrara by providing links to the sales site. Now those links are all dead. And the functionality issue rears its ugly head again, meaning that the clueless trolls who post here from time to time will actually be right when they claim that G3 is not supported in Carrara.
Disappointed and sad, the same way I feel when any Carrara PA store is suddenly gone.
As artists, we can have moments that cause us to act out of the norm.
they were cold and lonely and feeling unloved.
like Kurt Russel in universal soldier. replaced by a younger lesser poly count
sometimes the simplest of props are the hardest to convert. dohh
working on the https://www.daz3d.com/roman-cauldron-and-tripods
is not always easy to tell which is the geometry loader
ohh noo instances shreek