Daz Studio 5 development update

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  • MasterstrokeMasterstroke Posts: 1,984

    certaintree38 said:

    Multiple collision targets is one of the things I wish I had asked Daz for back when they sent out the survey. I have the kindred arts product that tries to simulate it, but it just isn't the same. Is it too late to add that to Daz 5???

    Good point.
    I also like to be able to have meterial settings included in the "erc freeze" command. 
    This would be helpful simulating skin strechting over joints. This way, youcould soften displacement values at the elbow when anarm is bent.

  • marblemarble Posts: 7,500

    certaintree38 said:

    Multiple collision targets is one of the things I wish I had asked Daz for back when they sent out the survey. I have the kindred arts product that tries to simulate it, but it just isn't the same. Is it too late to add that to Daz 5???

     I didn't get the survey but this is one of the few improvements that I have long ago formally requested via the support ticket system. I'm quite convinced, however, that such requests go straight to "file 13".  

  • nononnonon Posts: 0

    +1 for Linux, even if its through wine/proton. It would be so amazing if you could spin up Daz on a cloud host or run it as a docker instance. There would be such a pool of automation tools available if you could run it on linux.

  • Boosting cos I also have this question. Will there be a new DIM with DS5? Cos while I can just about use some of DS4.11 (glitchy, sooo glitchy; and anything newer doesn't work at all), on Big Sur I can't use DIM at all. Can't even download it.

    ulyssesheart said:

    This is amazing news. For us Mac users who have used Daz for years but have not been able to use it for a year, it's a huge note of optimism.

    One question:
    Since Mac users on OS13+ can no longer use DIM, how would we actually be able to download the PRE-Beta?

     

  • etaktrash_d29ae59121 said:

    Boosting cos I also have this question. Will there be a new DIM with DS5? Cos while I can just about use some of DS4.11 (glitchy, sooo glitchy; and anything newer doesn't work at all), on Big Sur I can't use DIM at all. Can't even download it.

    ulyssesheart said:

    This is amazing news. For us Mac users who have used Daz for years but have not been able to use it for a year, it's a huge note of optimism.

    One question:
    Since Mac users on OS13+ can no longer use DIM, how would we actually be able to download the PRE-Beta?

     

    Probably. DIM tends to be updated often enough.

  • ulyssesheart said:

    This is amazing news. For us Mac users who have used Daz for years but have not been able to use it for a year, it's a huge note of optimism.

    One question:
    Since Mac users on OS13+ can no longer use DIM, how would we actually be able to download the PRE-Beta?

    Why can't you use DIM? And OS13+? I can use it fine on 10.15.3. Big Sur is 11 so that is why I am confused by the 13+. Thanks
  • dhhaackdhhaack Posts: 12

    At last! I've been loudly complaining about a lack of response from the developer and Daz Studio's incompatibility with Big Sur. But, now the good news is beginning to trickle out.

    Thank you Daz_Rawb for letting us know! Much appreciated.

  • 3Don3Don Posts: 690

    When are the new Macs coming out? Will lthose be the ones with the M2 chip?

  • Great news that there is a Daz Studio 5 going to be released

    It is still wait to see how the Daz Studio 4 products, plugins and tool are going to be compatible with this new version 5

  • spaceray2005_e908957707 said:

    Great news that there is a Daz Studio 5 going to be released

    It is still wait to see how the Daz Studio 4 products, plugins and tool are going to be compatible with this new version 5

    Plug-ins, in the literal sense, are not going to be compatible.

  • LeanaLeana Posts: 11,715
    edited August 2021

    spaceray2005_e908957707 said:

    Great news that there is a Daz Studio 5 going to be released

    It is still wait to see how the Daz Studio 4 products, plugins and tool are going to be compatible with this new version 5

    As mentioned in the first post, plugins won't be, as the SDK is not backwards compatible (which is why that version will be 5.x and not another 4.x). They will at minimum need to be recompiled with the new SDK, some might require more substantial changes. Which means that any plugin whose creator is not active anymore (like GenX2, whose creator passed away years ago) or is not willing to update it in case it requires more work, won't work at all in DS5.

    And even if the creator is willing to create a DS5 version, it might be something you need to pay for.

    Scripts might require a new version too.

    Regular content should still work though.

    Post edited by Leana on
  • GhostofMacbeth said:

    Why can't you use DIM? And OS13+? I can use it fine on 10.15.3. Big Sur is 11 so that is why I am confused by the 13+. Thanks

    It just doesn't work. On my old Mac, which ran High Sierra, I culd use DIM and DS up to about 4.11. When my hard drive finally gave up the ghost after 11 years of good service, I got a new iMac, running Big Sur, and 4.11 is very shaky on it, but when I try to launch DIM I get: You do not have permission to open the application “DAZ3DIM.app”. Attempting to reinstall it gets me this:  “DAZ3DIM_1.4.0.67_Mac64.app” cannot be opened because the developer cannot be verified. I can't persuade it to trust Daz, so, it won't install any software. (and yes, I have gone into my security settings to try!)

    I hope this is fixed, too! 

  • nemesis10nemesis10 Posts: 3,421
    edited August 2021

    etaktrash_d29ae59121 said:

    GhostofMacbeth said:

    Why can't you use DIM? And OS13+? I can use it fine on 10.15.3. Big Sur is 11 so that is why I am confused by the 13+. Thanks

    It just doesn't work. On my old Mac, which ran High Sierra, I culd use DIM and DS up to about 4.11. When my hard drive finally gave up the ghost after 11 years of good service, I got a new iMac, running Big Sur, and 4.11 is very shaky on it, but when I try to launch DIM I get: You do not have permission to open the application “DAZ3DIM.app”. Attempting to reinstall it gets me this:  “DAZ3DIM_1.4.0.67_Mac64.app” cannot be opened because the developer cannot be verified. I can't persuade it to trust Daz, so, it won't install any software. (and yes, I have gone into my security settings to try!)

    I am running 10.15.7 and DIM is working fine for me.... How did you try to verify the software?


     

    Post edited by nemesis10 on
  • I am not sure if this will fix it but that is a long-standing thing I have seen that normally can/could be fixed. Here is a post about how to do it. Not sure if it will solve your issue though https://www.macworld.co.uk/how-to/mac-app-unidentified-developer-3669596/

  • kyoto kidkyoto kid Posts: 41,054

    Leana said:

    spaceray2005_e908957707 said:

    Great news that there is a Daz Studio 5 going to be released

    It is still wait to see how the Daz Studio 4 products, plugins and tool are going to be compatible with this new version 5

    As mentioned in the first post, plugins won't be, as the SDK is not backwards compatible (which is why that version will be 5.x and not another 4.x). They will at minimum need to be recompiled with the new SDK, some might require more substantial changes. Which means that any plugin whose creator is not active anymore (like GenX2, whose creator passed away years ago) or is not willing to update it in case it requires more work, won't work at all in DS5.

    And even if the creator is willing to create a DS5 version, it might be something you need to pay for.

    Scripts might require a new version too.

    Regular content should still work though.

     ...that was part of the reason I stopped at G3 as that particular plugin is indispensable for the type of character development I do.

    As long as there is still a 4.xx track I may just stay with that, as all my plugins  and scripts work fine. The only thing that may stop me is if a new version of Iray is released that requires the most up to date drivers that are no longer W7 and 8.1 compatible and/or if Maxwell support is dropped (not into paying 2 - 3 times tbe cost for a 330$ GPU).

  • Joaquim LopesJoaquim Lopes Posts: 46
    edited August 2021

    DAZ_Rawb said:

    Hi everyone. Drum roll please...

    As Director of Technology for Daz 3D, I wanted to give you some big news.  The Daz Studio team has been hard at work on a massive foundation change for Daz Studio that will be released as Daz Studio 5! Our project has been the #1 priority for the team for quite some time now, and it's almost done. Since we know how important getting a Mac version of Daz Studio is to all of you, we are switching up our release plans (from our normal releases) to get you a look at the upcoming Daz Studio 5 as soon as possible.

    Details of the upcoming Daz Studio 5 early-access Pre-Beta:
    - Release timing for this early-access preview is coming soon, at the very end of this month (July) or sometime next month (August).
    - This will be a pre-beta release. Normally we wait until the software is completely finished before releasing it.
    - Major Update will be Daz Studio release running for Macs, no other major features in the Pre-Beta.
    - All Plugins and some scripts will be broken. The SDK won't be available with this first release, but will be following it up at a later date. Some other less used features won't work at launch, but will be coming online throughout the year.
    - This release will work on at least x86 Macs (with both Filament and Iray). We are still investigating if this initial early-access release will run either natively or through emulation on M1 macs, but M1 support will come during the continued development of Daz Studio 5.
    - It will install into a new location, so you can run it along your current Daz Studio (release/beta) without problems.

    As for the final Daz Studio 5 release:
    - The timeline for this is to have it out near the very end of this year.
    - Features and enhancements will be rolling in through the rest of the year.
    - Anyone who has Daz Studio 4 in their account will be able to keep it. You'll be able to continue to download and use it for the foreseeable future.

    I hope everyone is just as excited about Daz Studio 5 as we are.

    Edited by Moderation Staff

    So, in about nine months (I'm counting time from this https://www.daz3d.com/forums/discussion/451486/daz-studio-macos-big-sur-compatibility#latest) you have an alpha version that might be released by the end of July (which wasn't) or August (which we'll have to see if it really happens) and we'll have a release candidate by the end of the year with features and enhancements that we'll get through 2022 (hence my release candidate thing, no speculation, just calling things as I see them). Am I excited about the news? Well… I would like to be, really (you can't imagine the effort I'm doing to be excited). But I'm not.

    I know that a rewrite of this magnitude of a complex software is not an easy task but this timetable just doesn't really get me excited. Will I be using Daz in the future? Maybe (I would like to), but I won't be buying any new stuff from Daz untill I see something really working. Sorry.

    Post edited by DAZ_ann0314 on
  • inquireinquire Posts: 2,196

    Leana said:

    spaceray2005_e908957707 said:

    Great news that there is a Daz Studio 5 going to be released

    It is still wait to see how the Daz Studio 4 products, plugins and tool are going to be compatible with this new version 5

    As mentioned in the first post, plugins won't be, as the SDK is not backwards compatible (which is why that version will be 5.x and not another 4.x). They will at minimum need to be recompiled with the new SDK, some might require more substantial changes. Which means that any plugin whose creator is not active anymore (like GenX2, whose creator passed away years ago) or is not willing to update it in case it requires more work, won't work at all in DS5.

     

    I don't understand coding, so maybe someone can explain this simply to me. Can't the code of something like GenX2 be viewed and analyzed, so that a new version could be made? I'm not suggesting that anyone's intellectual property be stolen. The artist or his or her heirs could be offered compensation if DAZ or another artist wanted to take up the task of revising and updating software. But I've read things such as "No one knows how she did it." So, again, is it not possible to analyze the code and understand this? (Again, I'm not focusing on GenX2; that's just an example.)

  • AllenArtAllenArt Posts: 7,169

    inquire said:

    Leana said:

    spaceray2005_e908957707 said:

    Great news that there is a Daz Studio 5 going to be released

    It is still wait to see how the Daz Studio 4 products, plugins and tool are going to be compatible with this new version 5

    As mentioned in the first post, plugins won't be, as the SDK is not backwards compatible (which is why that version will be 5.x and not another 4.x). They will at minimum need to be recompiled with the new SDK, some might require more substantial changes. Which means that any plugin whose creator is not active anymore (like GenX2, whose creator passed away years ago) or is not willing to update it in case it requires more work, won't work at all in DS5.

     

    I don't understand coding, so maybe someone can explain this simply to me. Can't the code of something like GenX2 be viewed and analyzed, so that a new version could be made? I'm not suggesting that anyone's intellectual property be stolen. The artist or his or her heirs could be offered compensation if DAZ or another artist wanted to take up the task of revising and updating software. But I've read things such as "No one knows how she did it." So, again, is it not possible to analyze the code and understand this? (Again, I'm not focusing on GenX2; that's just an example.)

    Well, at this point we have two other converters from previous generations of figures, so I assume someone's already figured out how to do it. Maybe not the same way, but the end result is the same.

    Laurie 

  • inquireinquire Posts: 2,196

    AllenArt said:

    inquire said:

    Leana said:

    spaceray2005_e908957707 said:

    Great news that there is a Daz Studio 5 going to be released

    It is still wait to see how the Daz Studio 4 products, plugins and tool are going to be compatible with this new version 5

    As mentioned in the first post, plugins won't be, as the SDK is not backwards compatible (which is why that version will be 5.x and not another 4.x). They will at minimum need to be recompiled with the new SDK, some might require more substantial changes. Which means that any plugin whose creator is not active anymore (like GenX2, whose creator passed away years ago) or is not willing to update it in case it requires more work, won't work at all in DS5.

     

    I don't understand coding, so maybe someone can explain this simply to me. Can't the code of something like GenX2 be viewed and analyzed, so that a new version could be made? I'm not suggesting that anyone's intellectual property be stolen. The artist or his or her heirs could be offered compensation if DAZ or another artist wanted to take up the task of revising and updating software. But I've read things such as "No one knows how she did it." So, again, is it not possible to analyze the code and understand this? (Again, I'm not focusing on GenX2; that's just an example.)

    Well, at this point we have two other converters from previous generations of figures, so I assume someone's already figured out how to do it. Maybe not the same way, but the end result is the same.

     

    Well, right. But, you see, I'm not concerned about GenX2. I'm trying to understand why it seems that the code for any product can't be viewed and understood. Isn't that possible?

    Laurie 

  • AllenArtAllenArt Posts: 7,169

    inquire said:

    AllenArt said:

    inquire said:

    Leana said:

    spaceray2005_e908957707 said:

    Great news that there is a Daz Studio 5 going to be released

    It is still wait to see how the Daz Studio 4 products, plugins and tool are going to be compatible with this new version 5

    As mentioned in the first post, plugins won't be, as the SDK is not backwards compatible (which is why that version will be 5.x and not another 4.x). They will at minimum need to be recompiled with the new SDK, some might require more substantial changes. Which means that any plugin whose creator is not active anymore (like GenX2, whose creator passed away years ago) or is not willing to update it in case it requires more work, won't work at all in DS5.

     

    I don't understand coding, so maybe someone can explain this simply to me. Can't the code of something like GenX2 be viewed and analyzed, so that a new version could be made? I'm not suggesting that anyone's intellectual property be stolen. The artist or his or her heirs could be offered compensation if DAZ or another artist wanted to take up the task of revising and updating software. But I've read things such as "No one knows how she did it." So, again, is it not possible to analyze the code and understand this? (Again, I'm not focusing on GenX2; that's just an example.)

    Well, at this point we have two other converters from previous generations of figures, so I assume someone's already figured out how to do it. Maybe not the same way, but the end result is the same.

     

    Well, right. But, you see, I'm not concerned about GenX2. I'm trying to understand why it seems that the code for any product can't be viewed and understood. Isn't that possible?

    Laurie 

    I imagine it would be an IP thing, so I don't see it happening. :) 

  • vagansvagans Posts: 422

    Many pages so sorry if this has been asked. Will decals be compatible with Geoshells in the new version?

  • inquireinquire Posts: 2,196

    @AllenArt: Don't even know what that is. What's an IP thing? Code can't be opened up and understood by another coder: is that it?

  • inquire said:

    @AllenArt: Don't even know what that is. What's an IP thing? Code can't be opened up and understood by another coder: is that it?

    Intellectual Property.

  • kyoto kidkyoto kid Posts: 41,054

    AllenArt said:

    inquire said:

    Leana said:

    spaceray2005_e908957707 said:

    Great news that there is a Daz Studio 5 going to be released

    It is still wait to see how the Daz Studio 4 products, plugins and tool are going to be compatible with this new version 5

    As mentioned in the first post, plugins won't be, as the SDK is not backwards compatible (which is why that version will be 5.x and not another 4.x). They will at minimum need to be recompiled with the new SDK, some might require more substantial changes. Which means that any plugin whose creator is not active anymore (like GenX2, whose creator passed away years ago) or is not willing to update it in case it requires more work, won't work at all in DS5.

     

    I don't understand coding, so maybe someone can explain this simply to me. Can't the code of something like GenX2 be viewed and analyzed, so that a new version could be made? I'm not suggesting that anyone's intellectual property be stolen. The artist or his or her heirs could be offered compensation if DAZ or another artist wanted to take up the task of revising and updating software. But I've read things such as "No one knows how she did it." So, again, is it not possible to analyze the code and understand this? (Again, I'm not focusing on GenX2; that's just an example.)

    Well, at this point we have two other converters from previous generations of figures, so I assume someone's already figured out how to do it. Maybe not the same way, but the end result is the same.

    Laurie 

    ...but those don't go all the way back to the original Genesis. GenerationX also had clones for Gen3 & 4 shapes available as well (I have all of them so I can still do a G3 version of Aiko3 for example).

  • Mustakettu85Mustakettu85 Posts: 2,933

    inquire said:

    @AllenArt: Don't even know what that is. What's an IP thing? Code can't be opened up and understood by another coder: is that it?

    The code itself absolutely can be viewed and analysed (though it gets mighty tedious if the coder didn't use nice formatting, comments etc). But what people are trying to tell you is that it might be impossible to actually make this happen - because the rights to do anything with it belong to Ralf Sesseler's heirs (supposing he had any). Moreover, I suspect that it's not DAZ3D who compile the code but the PA (those who actually sell plugins for DS here, would you please correct me if I'm wrong). So DAZ3D may not even have the code, and Mr Sesseler's heirs might not want to go through his archives in order to locate it (supposing those archives still survive).

  • inquireinquire Posts: 2,196

    Ah, I see. So it is possible. That's what I was trying to understand. Again, I was not concerned about GenX2, or any particular product. I was wondering if code could be viewed, analyzed, and understand. And, certainly, I'm not trying to suggest that anyone should take another's Intellectual Property. Sorry if I did not make myself clear.

  • marblemarble Posts: 7,500

    Mustakettu85 said:

    inquire said:

    @AllenArt: Don't even know what that is. What's an IP thing? Code can't be opened up and understood by another coder: is that it?

    The code itself absolutely can be viewed and analysed (though it gets mighty tedious if the coder didn't use nice formatting, comments etc). But what people are trying to tell you is that it might be impossible to actually make this happen - because the rights to do anything with it belong to Ralf Sesseler's heirs (supposing he had any). Moreover, I suspect that it's not DAZ3D who compile the code but the PA (those who actually sell plugins for DS here, would you please correct me if I'm wrong). So DAZ3D may not even have the code, and Mr Sesseler's heirs might not want to go through his archives in order to locate it (supposing those archives still survive).

     

    Just musing but I would guess those heirs might be willing to sell the rights for a piece of code that is now obsolete and unlikely to bring further income. But yes, the point is still that the code is not open for all to use and modify. 

  • almahiedraalmahiedra Posts: 1,351

    inquire said:

    Leana said:

    spaceray2005_e908957707 said:

    Great news that there is a Daz Studio 5 going to be released

    It is still wait to see how the Daz Studio 4 products, plugins and tool are going to be compatible with this new version 5

    As mentioned in the first post, plugins won't be, as the SDK is not backwards compatible (which is why that version will be 5.x and not another 4.x). They will at minimum need to be recompiled with the new SDK, some might require more substantial changes. Which means that any plugin whose creator is not active anymore (like GenX2, whose creator passed away years ago) or is not willing to update it in case it requires more work, won't work at all in DS5.

     

    I don't understand coding, so maybe someone can explain this simply to me. Can't the code of something like GenX2 be viewed and analyzed, so that a new version could be made? I'm not suggesting that anyone's intellectual property be stolen. The artist or his or her heirs could be offered compensation if DAZ or another artist wanted to take up the task of revising and updating software. But I've read things such as "No one knows how she did it." So, again, is it not possible to analyze the code and understand this? (Again, I'm not focusing on GenX2; that's just an example.)

     An artist capable of carrying out this process can use his/her time and knowledge by making his/her own product. In addition, there are already a couple of artists who have an equivalent product so there would be no profit. Nor for buyers of the product, as the product will not need any updates in DS4, and any possible add-ons for future figures would cost the same as buying the converter from another artist.

  • Mustakettu85 said:

    inquire said:

    @AllenArt: Don't even know what that is. What's an IP thing? Code can't be opened up and understood by another coder: is that it?

    The code itself absolutely can be viewed and analysed (though it gets mighty tedious if the coder didn't use nice formatting, comments etc). But what people are trying to tell you is that it might be impossible to actually make this happen - because the rights to do anything with it belong to Ralf Sesseler's heirs (supposing he had any). Moreover, I suspect that it's not DAZ3D who compile the code but the PA (those who actually sell plugins for DS here, would you please correct me if I'm wrong). So DAZ3D may not even have the code, and Mr Sesseler's heirs might not want to go through his archives in order to locate it (supposing those archives still survive).

    For a plug-in, like the GenX tools, there is no rtruly human-readable code - it's been turned into machine code. We have no idea whether the original source code is even available to the developer's heirs.

  • HavosHavos Posts: 5,362

    I recall reading a post at the time that Ralf Sesseler died from someone in contact with his heirs. They said that the heirs did not know how to get the code off of Ralf's PC and were reluctant to hand over the PC to a third party to try and retrieve it. As such we can only assume that the codebase is now lost. 

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