Help to Fix a really annoying "pose bug" in unreal from daz, if anyone know a good way to fix it
Ellessarr
Posts: 1,390
ok hello guys, i'm here because after so much time i've decided which this bug is really annoying and i can't keep ignoring it and need to some help to fix it, well the bug happens whenever you place the daz character in a "sit pose", while maybe for a "male character it's ok for a female it's looks really, really out of place specially if i do want my female to be a real woman and not a "dick girl" or futa girl or whetever you want to call, i know which part of the bug can be the lack of dual quartening skinning stuff but also maybe some "jcm" fixing?? or any trick??
here the issue in in a pose and not animation on unreal:
now in a crouch animation:
inside unreal this error/bug don't happens, here:
anyone had tried to fix or know any trick to fix this annoying stuff?
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You need to build a modified version of UE from source code for the "glitch" to go away. (key word: Dual Quaternion Skinning support)
Discussion here: https://www.daz3d.com/forums/discussion/134926/adding-dual-quaternion-support-to-unrealengine4-images-inside/p9
Modified source (most recent one): https://github.com/AlienRenders/UnrealEngine/tree/4.26-mod
For the modified source to be visible you are supposed to link your epic account with your github account:
https://www.epicgames.com/help/en-US/epic-accounts-c74/connect-accounts-c110/how-do-i-link-my-unreal-engine-account-with-my-github-account-a3618
thanks, i do know about the dual quartenion stuff, but i was hopping someone could come with a "alternative way to fix like a sort of "jcm" or corrective morph or anything like that to be usable to fix this glitch or at last make it less bug, my issue is which since the creator don't have time to keep updating the stuff it could ending being troublesome specially if it don't work with "updated versions of the engine like only work on the 4.26 and not 4.26.2 and stuffs like that, if it was actually a full valid plugging for unreal would be better but since you have to build the unreal from the ground using it make things even more troublesome, i means i want to avoid "too much work time wasting", i'm not saying which the mod is not good just is a lot of "extra work" and time which i would love to avoid to loose, then i really want something different another work around would be good.
ok after some tests today i've found a possible "fix" or work around aboust this, i was playing with daz pose controls and decided to expor the knee up control to unreal and found out which while it don't work in the same way it work in daz i means in daz it actually move the legs while in unreal it just "deform" the legs but it lead to the "butt" and crouch to actually looks good here:
as you can see it's looks much better and natural than when you bend the legs with animation or manually, then i would love to know if is possible to get the "the hip" part of the knee and create a "jcm(corrective morph) of it to be applied using the animation bp post processing like the others joints if it would be possible to use the "hip part" of this control then it would be perfect to fix this pose issue.
anyone with knowledge about "corrective morphs" to know if can be possible do it????
I think part of the problem is that when I made the JCM Animation Blueprint, I did that before I had made the Fix Rotations setting. So if you're using Fixed Rotations, the JCMs might not be driven by the correct Axis. I'm working on a fix for that.
i'm not using the jcm rotation fix because whenever i do that in the unreal the character come totally broken and distorted when i choose to allow those options.
ok David Vodhanel i've made some tests and indeed don't really matter your "rotation fix" it's not really what causing the bug, since all the exemples i've used so far didn't use your "rotation fix" they where exported with this option not marked on unreal now today i've tested with one of then marked the first one to fix rotation e not root rotation because the second one bug the character specially combined with the first one at last for me.
now here the results, first the character when you just "move the bones to put the character in a pose:
now i've exported the "knee up" pose control as a morph and when i apply it to the character here it's what happens:
the kneel up pose works as a "morph instead of a pose control and actually fix it in a so perfect and awesome way, which does shows which if it could be turned in a "corrective morph or jcm it would be a perfect way of fix the issue, basically if you could look at all or most of the "pose controls" and turn then in "jcm they could really helps fix a lot of the bad bends, because without any doubts the issue is really the DQ stuff and lack of proper jcm's if you could talk with daz team and ask then to create jcms based on the controls or at last based on the morphs which are created when exported to unreal it would be a great improviment because really for what i'm looking at again it's really looks like just the need of some more extra jcm to make daz characters even better than many others characters in unreal which normally don't have jcm and most of the times don't looks good as those ones, because without any doubts it's a issue related to DQ and the best way to "fix it without use the DQ is really making more JCM's to fix those really bad bends.
just make a test yourself.
the only issue which those "pose controls" have and i don't know if it's pluging fault which is not proper exporting then right is which they work only "one side" i means which some controls have both "positive and negative" but then pluging only export the "positive" which means controls which make the character rise the arms like the arms up also can make him low down the arms but the exported version don't have it and just "crazy deform the character like that for exemple:>
when you go up it's work normal but when you go "down" it's totally broken the same for arms front and back, some negative-positve morphs are really not proper being exported as they should be.
Right, morphs and poses like to go from 0 to 1. You can't really export a negative version. I see what you're doing now I think. Rather than bending the skeleton to bend a knee, you're applying a morph of the character with the knee bent. I guess that would work, but I think it would have pretty limited applications. Need to think on that a bit.
i'm was more like testing because i wanted to see if i could use the "controls" to fix the issue but i found out which it can't since the control not really make the character flex the legs but "deform it to the final look like a regular morph,they are working just like regular morphs where you morph the legs to "knee up" instead of "rotate then, you need to test yourself it to see, then i think it would be a good way to talk to daz team to create a sort of jcm from this control then like the others jcm you just have to apply the jcm into the animation blueprint then it will "fix" the bad deformation because the issue is more related to bad deformation than actually "rotation", the best fix here which i can see is by creating a jcm to fix it like the others jcm do, if you can create new jcm's to fix those specific places, like the hips or the knee which where normally the places with the worst deform then it could make a huge difference it's just adding more "new jcms".
you can actually export the negative but it's a little trick, you need to export it like a "animation" without use the pluging" it allow you to set both "negative and positive" morphs i just don't remember if they ending being exported as 2 morphs or a single one it's a really old trick, for wha i saw in unreal while you can't export the "negative value" it actually create the "negative value" it's soo which unreal allow you set it bot -1 and 1, you can go from -1 to 0 to 1, when using the bars, it's propally unreal just create himself the "negative version by trying to "reverse the positive".
we are missing jcms for the "crouch" and for the knee" for when a character "flex" or crouch or just "sit", also for arms when up down or front and back, you only are exporting some "basic jcms" which really only fix in the end the feet and few parts of the leg, fix for crouch for arms for tighs are missing.
here's the "old way to export morphs it's animation based:
it can work to export both negative and positive too, to do that you must create with 3 key frames, (i really don't recall right this part it's a long time and its not more used) first frame i don't recall if you set the "negative, then second frame the 0 then third frame the positive, then you set to export animation., it will save the morph and export with the animation, if not that then first frame is the neutral 0 then second frame negative and third frame positive, then set to export with animtion it used to export the morph, don't recall if still working" but on that way you could actually proper export the "morph" in the right way which allow to get both "positve and negative when they have it, i really don't know what could be trick to translate it to the pluging.
i really hope the "fix" you are trying to apply really works, because it's really a annoying bug in some cases it is small based on the mesh model like meshes with "big" crouch suffer more than the ones with small ones and to be fair the issue is not just the crouch but overal it's really feel like some improviments in others places like the knee and arms deservers some improviments, be jcm or maybe the fix you are trying to go.
ok i've made some tests today and found out which "part of the issue" is coming from the jcms themselfs, it's seens which they are making the "mesh bend "more than what was supposed to do", today i've exported the character with and without the morphs and here the results:
kneel up still the best morph eve it bend perfect the legs as the others images showed it would be awesome be able to make corrective joints based on it!! it would make the perfect bend
now just using the regular jcms, you have a "jcm" group and type related to the thigh, in this case the thigh foward, which deforms too much the glut area making it looks really bad, maybe it looks "normal if peoples are sitting" and part of the "soft body" goes there however when the character is croaching or doing others related moviments it will create really weird deforms,
as you can see this thigh jcm is being applied and it's seens which big part of bad deform comes from him ( we still have some small bad deform from the mesh itself but those jcm are really playing a big role here.
now let me show the same result by "disabling some of the morphs, let's disable the 115 from both legs.
as you can see by "disabling" those jcms the glut already looks a lot better than with it applied.
by full disabling this thigh foward jcm you have almost perfect result, the kneel still being the perfect results but by disabling those morphs already is a big improviment,
then for now what i feel would be the "best temporary fix or band-aid for peoples with the same issue is by not exporting this morphs or editing the animation bp to disable those morphs because they are making a really huge bad deform in the mesh, they could be interesting for a "siting animation or pose but you still have the "crouch/pu*** issue to deal, but if you want a more "natural animation watch over then, it means which we must becarefull and look at all the "jcms" because others jcms can do the same issue because the way they where made can make things looks, more bad than it already is.