What tool in Vertex Modeller in Carrara Pro mimics the Swift Loop tool in 3D Studio Max ??

oandr88

I really need this tool in order to prepare a Keytar model that I recently acquired on the Internet for anti-aliasing by Subdivision. (the model is low poly and very ribbed, and it is very dreary to process it with the Fillet tool).

 

I promise that I will not resell the model and will not post it as my own - you just need to edit it for a specific render. I tried to simulate the Swift Loop using a large Plane and the Boolean function, but the model is all cracked (holes appeared that could not be closed by the Fill Polygon command, and many extra polygons appeared inside it, disfiguring it).

 

Who does not know what Swift Loop in 3D Studio is, here is a very clear and intuitive video.

 

Unfortunately. there is no money at all on 3D Studio Max, I can't even take a loan - and a render with a smoothed Keytar model is needed for the cover of a commercial album.

Diomede

Carrara's vertex modeler does not have that same tool.  I would use the filet tools despite being dreary.  Alternatively, I would use Hexagon or another modeler.

WendyLuvsCatz

would this work?

Dartanbeck

Another quick option might be to simply use the Bevel Shader within Shaders Plus plugin, free from DCG.

Bevel

The Bevel shader can trick the renderer into believing there is a chamfered or beveled edge where there is not.

1. Size controls how far away from the edge the bevel extends.
2. Use Space to control in which coordinates the Size parameter works.
3. The Bevel popup lists several preset bevels or you can select Custom to build your own.
4. Custom Bevel is used to make your own style bevel.
5. Anything Grows safe mode prevents infinite loops, when the Anything Grows modifier is used, by only checking edges of the unmodified mesh. You can safely turn this off if you are not using Bevel in any of the Anything Grows shader selections.
6. Edges determines which types of edges are beveled. Inner edges are creases. Outer edges are ridges. The Degrees slide controls how sharp an edge needs to be before it is considered an inner or outer edge.

Dartanbeck

Even if all of the keys share the same material zone, we can quickly change that in Carrara without changing their position on the UV Mapping.

 

Simply select the polygons you need beveled (in the vertex model room) and give them a new zone. The UV Mapping will remain the same, but that or those polygons will now have their own Shading Domain/ Material Zone. That way we can still use the map provided, if that's an issue.

McGuiver

fix one key the way you want it, then duplicate, or replicate. Should be much faster that beveling every key.

Dartanbeck

McGuiver said:

fix one key the way you want it, then duplicate, or replicate. Should be much faster that beveling every key.

Right. And in that case, just get rid of what's there, make a new key and duplicate it. Bam!

Hi McGuiver! Long time!

DesertDude

Diomede said:

Carrara's vertex modeler does not have that same tool.  I would use the filet tools despite being dreary.  Alternatively, I would use Hexagon or another modeler.

But...I think it does...the Extract Along tool? Third one down. This is what I did to re-create the cube example in oandr88's video:

Insert a cube, then for example in the first screen grab, I selected the top polygon, selcted the Extract Along tool, then one can drag a loop in either direction. The yellow loop is what I got after using the tool.

I did that for all six sides, working in opposites, top / bottom, left / right front / back.

 

I converted all edges to smooth using Model > Smooth edges, then turned on smoothing to level 1.

 

Lastly, I hit the 'convert' button and turned on smoothing level 1 again.

 

DesertDude

In Wendy's video (clever demo Wendy! ) she uses the Extract Around tool found in the same menu, second icon down. You can try that on your stair step example where two planes meet:  select the edge, use the Extract Around tool and you will get 2 loops, one on either side of the edge. Then you can mix and match Extract Around and Extract Along as you see fit.

Diomede

These tools are very similar, but they are not quite the same.  To use the 'Extract Along' tool, you first have to select a the full loop next to where you want the edge loop.  Then extract along from it to one side or the other.  A related tool would allow you to simply click anywhere on the interior of a line and create an edge loop perpendicular to where you tapped, extended in both directions for as long as there is an opposing parallel line to be cut.  In many cases it works out the same, but consider when the lengths of the edges to be bisected are not the same.  Does the new edge loop extend inwards for all of the edges to be bisected the same distance from a previously looped edge?  Or, does the new edge loop bisect each edge to be bisected the same proportion from each end point?  

 

It doesn't make that much of a difference for simple cubes, but if you have a complex model or a flowing organic model it can make a difference.

EDIT - here is the 'Tessalate by slice' tool in Hexagon.  Very similar to extract along, but not quite the same. 

Stezza

I just do what DD said and modelled a wacky one from scratch... starting from a polygon and using extract around tool 

mschack

Stezza escaped from his thread, someone grab him!

Diomede

Stezza said:

I just do what DD said and modelled a wacky one from scratch... starting from a polygon and using extract around tool 

Great stuff

Headwax

great to see al the modellers coming to the fore

DesertDude

Diomede said:

These tools are very similar, but they are not quite the same.  To use the 'Extract Along' tool, you first have to select a the full loop next to where you want the edge loop.  Then extract along from it to one side or the other.  A related tool would allow you to simply click anywhere on the interior of a line and create an edge loop perpendicular to where you tapped, extended in both directions for as long as there is an opposing parallel line to be cut.  In many cases it works out the same, but consider when the lengths of the edges to be bisected are not the same.  Does the new edge loop extend inwards for all of the edges to be bisected the same distance from a previously looped edge?  Or, does the new edge loop bisect each edge to be bisected the same proportion from each end point?  

 

It doesn't make that much of a difference for simple cubes, but if you have a complex model or a flowing organic model it can make a difference.

EDIT - here is the 'Tessalate by slice' tool in Hexagon.  Very similar to extract along, but not quite the same. 

 

Ah - yes I think I understand the difference, thank you. I've seen that type of edge loop creation in videos for other software, and it always appears to cut so nice and proper. I have made catastrophic 'cuts' countless times without realizing it until many steps down the modeling road using Extract Along or Extract Around on organic or uneven models. 

Often in those situations if I foresee a possible issue I will instead use the Add Vertex tool and just cut point by point. At least Carrara gives helpful quick calculations to assist in placing the point at the 1/2 mark, or 1/3 and 1/4 mark.

DesertDude

Diomede said:

Stezza said:

I just do what DD said and modelled a wacky one from scratch... starting from a polygon and using extract around tool 

Great stuff

Agree! 
Out of thin air...

DesertDude

Dartanbeck said:

Another quick option might be to simply use the Bevel Shader within Shaders Plus plugin, free from DCG.

Bevel

The Bevel shader can trick the renderer into believing there is a chamfered or beveled edge where there is not.

1. Size controls how far away from the edge the bevel extends.
2. Use Space to control in which coordinates the Size parameter works.
3. The Bevel popup lists several preset bevels or you can select Custom to build your own.
4. Custom Bevel is used to make your own style bevel.
5. Anything Grows safe mode prevents infinite loops, when the Anything Grows modifier is used, by only checking edges of the unmodified mesh. You can safely turn this off if you are not using Bevel in any of the Anything Grows shader selections.
6. Edges determines which types of edges are beveled. Inner edges are creases. Outer edges are ridges. The Degrees slide controls how sharp an edge needs to be before it is considered an inner or outer edge.

 

Headwax said:

great to see al the modellers coming to the fore

And clever Shader solutions as well!

DesertDude

OMG I successfully multi-quoted!

edited to add:

Not sure if there is an easier work around but I clicked on the Dartanbeck quote first, opened a new window and opened the thread again, clicked the quote from Headwax, then clicked the 'Source' button, copied the HTML, went to the first quote, clicked Source, and pasted the HTML below, then clicked Source again to return to normal view and sent comment.

edited again: Removed the screen grab

 

Stezza

DesertDude said:

OMG I successfully multi-quoted!

edited to add:

Not sure if there is an easier work around 

 

I multi-quote with the use of notepad..

like you I copy/paste the source into notepad, refresh the page then reply to another post copy/paste into notepad again and then so on till I'm done then copy the source from notepad and paste into a new post in source mode then revert to normal and reply to the individual quotes... 

mschack said:

Stezza escaped from his thread, someone grab him!

that made me laugh ... thanks  ... I think! 

Diomede

There is a tip from Mike Moir that helps.

- first, select an edge that you want to do the equivelant of swift loop

- use 'ring' to select parallel edges

- check to make sure you got the edges you want and adjust if necessary

- then use the menu for model : subdivide to bisect the selected edges

- check for any strange bending

- select an edge next to the array of bisection points

- use loop to select the edges next to the bisection points

- check to make sure you have the edges you want and adjust if necessary

- use extract along and it will stop on top of the bisection points the whole way.

oandr88

Diomede said:

Carrara's vertex modeler does not have that same tool.  I would use the filet tools despite being dreary.  Alternatively, I would use Hexagon or another modeler.

Hello!

Thank you for attention...

Yes, there is a fillet in 3DS, but in Carrara it is terribly buggy on ready-made, monolithic models (the edges are created with distortion, obliquely, they part at an angle - and this is terribly infuriating, because then they cannot be smoothed out with the SubDivision tool, which is also borrowed from 3DS modifier list)

PGre

oandre88, is the keytar model that your using a commecial product that you paid for or is it freely downloadable? What format was it? Either way I suspect that some of the issues your having are being compounded by the construction of the original model. You may need to spend some time cleaning up geometry in order for the vertex modeler to deal with it properly.

Edit: It looks like this model is available on 3d warehouse. Depending on how you bring it in your mileage may vary, but I was able to clean this end up enough to get the quick fillet to work as expected.