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DAZ Studio Pro BETA [Project Iradium] - version 4.8.0.4!

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  • DAZ_SpookyDAZ_Spooky Posts: 3,100
    edited December 1969

    Kyoto Kid said:

    ...yes, but what changes in Daz 4.8 may possibly cause conflicts with Reality4?

    None that we are aware of.
  • DAZ_SpookyDAZ_Spooky Posts: 3,100
    edited December 1969

    RAMWolff said:
    So in order to avoid all that extra set up stuff you mentioned in your post below just stick with the CPU render side of things with this new render engine? My card is about the same as barbult's and surely don't have money to spend on a high end card or a bridged set of cards. Tis what it tis.

    DAZ_Spooky said:
    barbult said:
    Thank you all for the responses on the AoA Advanced Lights. I've never used an unbiased render engine before, so it is all new to me! Thanks for the tips on adding the appropriate lights for Iray. I only have a 2GB Nvidia Geforce GTX 760, so I wonder if I will benefit much from the GPU render.
    When I first started testing this it was on a 2GB GTX 770 (on one machine.)

    If you remember the following, The scene must fit on the 2GB available to the card in order to use it. Texture atlas is your friend. Close your web browser, turn off aero, turn off second monitors, and your scene must be fairly simple, then your card will help. If you want to do something a bit more complex, then you will be rendering CPU only. You will still get the same great results, it just won't be as fast as it could be with better hardware.

    I didn't say that. I said keep in mind the limitations of your card, and that if you stay within those limitations the card will work.

    Also note that a GT 740 with 4GB of RAM is in the $100 range and will improve your render times.

  • legarclegarc Posts: 45
    edited December 1969

    sgreco1970 said:
    Vaskania said:
    sgreco1970 said:
    what IS the preferred lighting for Iray? UberEnv? Spotlights? Special sets?

    You should have 2 new lights on your upper bar, photo real point and something else. You can use those with irays render lighting, or the render lighting by itself. There are settings in the environment section of the render settings tab when set to nvidia iray. Dome + scene will use environment map and scene lights, dome only uses what's plugged into the environment map, or sunlight can be uses to mimic the sun at different times of day.

    Forgive me, I'm not at my PC so the answer is a little crude.

    /edited a couple times lol

    Yes, i tried the new lights and my scene was black :( Only sun/sky works for me so far.

    You have to really crank up the lumens for the photometric light, point or spot, really crank it.

  • DAZ_SpookyDAZ_Spooky Posts: 3,100
    edited December 1969

    jakiblue said:
    DAZ_KatBriggs said:
    barbult said:
    How well do the AoA Advanced Lights work with the Nvidia Iray rendering?

    You won't use the AoA lights with Iray. All the wonderful features he has added are fantastic for 3delight, but un-needed. They are shader lights so will not work with Iray. It has it's own lighting environment using HDRI, Sun-Sky and/or photometric Spot and Point lights. It also will allow you to turn surfaces into light emitting surfaces. (i.e. lightbulbs, area lights etc....) The pointlight can use an IES profile, as can a mesh surface used as an emittor.

    Remember, this is a photoreal renderer so you won't be using all the lighting trickes and fudges you had to learn for 3Delight. They won't work here. :)

    Kat, so it's all new lights with Iray - can people create light sets for it as well ? (for sale in store or giveaways etc)
    Yes. You can also buy a decent photographic lighting book, what I did, which will show you the principals of setting up real world lighting.

  • JoelLovellJoelLovell Posts: 112
    edited December 1969

    In the iRAY rendering options, are there any checkboxes for OpenCL instead of CUDA by chance? :)

  • DAZ_SpookyDAZ_Spooky Posts: 3,100
    edited December 1969

    stevenyang0430 said:
    Quick question:
    Is there anyway to both do the beta testing AND using the old version of DAZ?
    I want to beta test it so bad but I'm working on a project...
    Any suggestions?
    They work side by side.
  • DAZ_SpookyDAZ_Spooky Posts: 3,100
    edited December 1969

    sgreco1970 said:
    well shoot, why can't I?

    If you have public beta checked in the filter and show hidden files checked, it could be that you have never gotten a public beta before. You could try "purchasing" it (free).

  • EcVh0EcVh0 Posts: 535
    edited December 1969

    Did a test render using Iray.... I have to say it's pretty impressive!
    However since the skin method used in Octane won't work in iray (Completely different set ups) then I guess it will take some time to fully built up...

    Anyways is there any chance to have a online database just like Octane render?

    Iray_Test_Render_Official_1.jpg
    1920 x 1080 - 2M
  • DAZ_SpookyDAZ_Spooky Posts: 3,100
    edited December 1969

    DarwinsMishap said:
    HellcatF6F said:
    Dumb question. Does IRay have a CPU mode? I don't have an Nvidia video card and cannot buy one right now. But I welcome a new unbiased engine, especially one built right into DAZ.

    I did forget to mention- he is rendered in CPU mode. It took five minutes.

    I did notice that the displacement maps are not working- I went and set them to 80% strength with a positive dial of .4 and still nothing. They are grayscale black background with white/gray so I don't need a negative value. Never had that happen before in Studio, but it's been a while since I used it on a regular. Hm.Two things. Displacement will usually require adding additional tessalation. Apply the Iray shader to the surfaces (it will translate what you have) then under displacement there is a setting for subdivision. Use it sparingly remember each level quadruple the number of Poly's.

    Also note that there is now a render time sub-d setting which should be set to 3, or so, to see HD morphs.

  • DAZ_SpookyDAZ_Spooky Posts: 3,100
    edited March 2015

    Rogerbee said:

    Ok, I've been through this thread and can't seem to see what benefit all this is going to be for anyone that doesn't have an Nvidia card. I have an AMD, so what's in it for me!? So far all I seem to have seen is how good it is for Nvidia users, but, what about others that aren't!?

    I love DS, but, I don't want to feel penalised because I don't have 'the right graphics card'

    CHEERS!

    This is NVIDIA's render engine. :)

    No video card required at all, well other than needing the proper level of OpenGL. You won't get any advantage from your AMD graphics card but you aren't penalized either.

    The render quality is the same.

    Post edited by DAZ_Spooky on
  • DAZ_SpookyDAZ_Spooky Posts: 3,100
    edited December 1969

    sgreco1970 said:
    ug, it just crashed and upon restarting has re-docked all of my tabs that I'd just moved to my second monitor. I guess I should have hit save somewhere lol. Also, I had tried rendering a sky dome (scene only setting, using Predatron's skies) with Urban Sprawl and it just came out black and then crashed lol
    Sky domes cast shadows. You can light the dome by making it an emissive surface, or remove it.
  • SerpentSerpent Posts: 4,075
    edited December 1969

    Richard Haseltine said:
    Robert Freise said:
    Appears that you will need an NVIDIA card
    Compatible cards listed here
    http://www.nvidia.com/object/cuda_home_new.html

    Look at the Advanced tab of Render Settings (with Iray set as the engine) - you can turn your GPU(s) and CPU on and off. It's not that impressed with my 1GB card - it managed a naked G2F, but failed with a slightly more complex scene, but I cans till run in CPU-only mode (which is of course slower).

    Good news because I now have to buy a new laptop with an NVidia GTX in it.. well, it was in my lans for this year anyway.. :blank:

  • legarclegarc Posts: 45
    edited December 1969

    not seeing where to make skin changes for iray render. trying to change specular for instance not showing up. wonder what needs to be done. are iray materials available yet?

  • SerpentSerpent Posts: 4,075
    edited December 1969

    DAZ_Spooky said:
    Kyoto Kid said:
    ...and how much GPU horsepower will it need?
    None.(Yes that is right, none.)

    If you can run 64 bit DAZ Studio, you can use the Iray render engine. If you want the most performance out of it then NVIDIA cards (we recommend a minimum of 4GB of Video RAM on the card) will increase your performance significantly. And it scales, the more hardware you throw at it, the better it performs, but even if you get no hardware you get the same great renders.

    Thanks! That'll keep me going until my laptop fund is full! :coolsmile:

  • barbultbarbult Posts: 24,012
    edited December 1969

    DAZ_Spooky said:
    Two things. Displacement will usually require adding additional tessalation. Apply the Iray shader to the surfaces (it will translate what you have) then under displacement there is a setting for subdivision. Use it sparingly remember each level quadruple the number of Poly's.

    Also note that there is now a render time sub-d setting which should be set to 3, or so, to see HD morphs.


    Where do we find the render time sub-d setting? I haven't stumbled across that one yet. that would be great. I have been setting the viewport sub-d to 3 to get the HD morphs to render, but of course that slows down the viewport a lot.
  • KeryaKerya Posts: 10,943
    edited December 1969

    User812 said:
    not seeing where to make skin changes for iray render. trying to change specular for instance not showing up. wonder what needs to be done. are iray materials available yet?

    You need the "Public Beta Iray Support Content"
    There are materials for at least the Genesis 2 Female there - ctrl+click to retain your texture ...

  • DAZ_SpookyDAZ_Spooky Posts: 3,100
    edited December 1969

    User812 said:
    sgreco1970 said:
    Vaskania said:
    sgreco1970 said:
    what IS the preferred lighting for Iray? UberEnv? Spotlights? Special sets?

    You should have 2 new lights on your upper bar, photo real point and something else. You can use those with irays render lighting, or the render lighting by itself. There are settings in the environment section of the render settings tab when set to nvidia iray. Dome + scene will use environment map and scene lights, dome only uses what's plugged into the environment map, or sunlight can be uses to mimic the sun at different times of day.

    Forgive me, I'm not at my PC so the answer is a little crude.

    /edited a couple times lol

    Yes, i tried the new lights and my scene was black :( Only sun/sky works for me so far.

    You have to really crank up the lumens for the photometric light, point or spot, really crank it. Or adjust your tone mapper. You are not going to shoot a scene lit by a couple of 100 watt bulbs with ISO 100 film. :)

  • DAZ_SpookyDAZ_Spooky Posts: 3,100
    edited December 1969

    barbult said:
    DAZ_Spooky said:
    Two things. Displacement will usually require adding additional tessalation. Apply the Iray shader to the surfaces (it will translate what you have) then under displacement there is a setting for subdivision. Use it sparingly remember each level quadruple the number of Poly's.

    Also note that there is now a render time sub-d setting which should be set to 3, or so, to see HD morphs.


    Where do we find the render time sub-d setting? I haven't stumbled across that one yet. that would be great. I have been setting the viewport sub-d to 3 to get the HD morphs to render, but of course that slows down the viewport a lot.
    Due to the nature of the forums, I am going to answer in two responses.

    Set the render time Sub-D (right under the viewport Sub-D) to 3 instead. (Do not use more than you need.)

    RendertimeSub-D.png
    530 x 445 - 53K
  • DAZ_SpookyDAZ_Spooky Posts: 3,100
    edited December 1969

    XoechZ said:
    Cypherfox said:
    Greetings,
    XoechZ said:
    The only thing I hope is that DAZ will not neglect 3Delight support at any time, due to this new "Nvidia only" render engine. 3Delight has to stay the main render engine in DAZ Studio. Most of the content is optimised for it, or only works with it. The new engine may be nice for some users who have the supported hardware, but for the majority of users and available content (especially shaders and light sets) 3Delight is the way to go.Just to reiterate what's been said before, supported hardware absolutely includes your 64-bit CPU.

    This is nVidia accelerated not nVidia exclusive.

    It's also in beta, so give it some time to settle... :)

    -- Morgan

    Yes, I have read that. But I have also read this:

    DAZ_Spooky - 09 March 2015 05:52 PM

    Note you can still use 3Delight, and in fact this beta does include a new build of 3Delight as well.

    The words "can" and "still" could mean that someday you cannot any more. And I simply hope that this never will become true.


    Well we just extended our contract for 3Delight. It is not our intention to drop 3Delight support in the foreseeable future, but we can't guarantee they will still be in business at some point far in the future, or that their paths and ours won't diverge at some point in the future. So don't read into that any more than we do not have a crystal ball, and can not predict the future.

  • Mustakettu85Mustakettu85 Posts: 2,933
    edited December 1969

    My questions got lost in the fast-moving thread... I'm posting again, hope that's okay.

    DAZ_Spooky said:

    Note you can still use 3Delight, and in fact this beta does include a new build of 3Delight as well. :)

    Two questions...
    1) Could you please specify the new 3Delight build number? I can't find it anywhere...
    2) The new sunsky - it's Iray only, is that correct?

  • IvyIvy Posts: 7,164
    edited March 2015

    Hey folks I keep getting the error message when i try to up load the bata version . it says it can't find the scene builder public build. and the install stops
    but all the other content installs just not the 4.8 program
    I never had any trouble with daz 4..7 any suggestions

    I should menetion that my content folder are on a different drive than the studio program thats on my main drive does that have anything to do with it.. you guys really need to give us a stand alone install

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    Post edited by Ivy on
  • larsmidnattlarsmidnatt Posts: 4,511
    edited March 2015

    Sorry if this was already mentioned, but is there a way to see how much VRam is needed for the current scene(rendering with Iray)? I tend to optimize my scenes when they are eating up too much Vram and I would like to know if there is a way to get this information.

    Cuda cores only matter if they are being used, and typically if everything does not fit into Vram it won't use GPU. I'd only want to use this for the GPU benefits...so the Vram issue is very important to me.

    I don't need 4GB of Vram with Octane because I know when to optimize my scene to fit in my allotted space. You can use Texture Atlas to help reduce texture sizes for background objects when needed...etc etc. So the one size fits all statement about 4gb of Vram isn't going to really work. I'm sure lots of people will easily fill up 4gb of vram and force the renderer into cpu mode...

    Post edited by larsmidnatt on
  • DAZ_JoshDAZ_Josh Posts: 1,367
    edited December 1969

    Kerya said:
    User812 said:
    not seeing where to make skin changes for iray render. trying to change specular for instance not showing up. wonder what needs to be done. are iray materials available yet?

    You need the "Public Beta Iray Support Content"
    There are materials for at least the Genesis 2 Female there - ctrl+click to retain your texture ...

    No need to ctrl+click to retain your texture. The preset was saved without references to images so that you simply apply it after you have applied the desired MAT preset.

  • DAZ_SpookyDAZ_Spooky Posts: 3,100
    edited March 2015

    Displacement: (Now that I am at a computer, and not on my phone on the train on the way in. LOL.)

    I am using the Starship Crew uniform Jacket, though this works for everything.
    Note that the displacement in the before image doesn't look so good.
    Select the surface (rankAwards and double click the !Iray Uber Base from your Content or Smart Content Tab.
    Scroll down to the displacement section of the shader.
    Increase the SubD Displacement Level to a number that makes sense without increasing it too much.

    Note that the render time Sub-D, if any, is applied first and what is applied due to this setting is the difference between the two. The more intricate the displacement the higher you will need to set this value, but remember each level quadruples the polys from the level before. (You will both increase calculation time and memory usage at an exponential rate.)

    Note that the images are in reverse order.

    DisplacememtSubD.png
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    ApplyIrayUber.png
    1917 x 536 - 798K
    Displacement-Before.png
    710 x 681 - 577K
    Post edited by DAZ_Spooky on
  • DAZ_SpookyDAZ_Spooky Posts: 3,100
    edited December 1969

    Ivy said:
    Hey folks I keep getting the error message when i try to up load the bata version . it says it can't find the scene builder public build. and the install stops
    but all the other content installs just not the 4.8 program
    I never had any trouble with daz 4..7 any suggestions

    I should menetion that my content folder are on a different drive than the studio program thats on my main drive does that have anything to do with it.. you guys really need to give us a stand alone install

    You tried to install scene builder before installing the Public Beta for DS. Once DS Public Beta is installed it should install correctly.
  • IvyIvy Posts: 7,164
    edited December 1969

    DAZ_Spooky said:
    Ivy said:
    Hey folks I keep getting the error message when i try to up load the bata version . it says it can't find the scene builder public build. and the install stops
    but all the other content installs just not the 4.8 program
    I never had any trouble with daz 4..7 any suggestions

    I should menetion that my content folder are on a different drive than the studio program thats on my main drive does that have anything to do with it.. you guys really need to give us a stand alone install

    You tried to install scene builder before installing the Public Beta for DS. Once DS Public Beta is installed it should install correctly.

    thanks I'm trying that right now I'll let you know in a few minutes

  • DAZ_SpookyDAZ_Spooky Posts: 3,100
    edited March 2015

    larsmidnatt said:
    Sorry if this was already mentioned, but is there a way to see how much VRam is needed for the current scene(rendering with Iray)? I tend to optimize my scenes when they are eating up too much Vram and I would like to know if there is a way to get this information. Not without loading the scene into Vram and trying to render, according to NVIDIA.

    Cuda cores only matter if they are being used, and typically if everything does not fit into Vram it won't use GPU. I'd only want to use this for the GPU benefits...so the Vram issue is very important to me.

    I don't need 4GB of Vram with Octane because I know when to optimize my scene to fit in my allotted space. You can use Texture Atlas to help reduce texture sizes for background objects when needed...etc etc. So the one size fits all statement about 4gb of Vram isn't going to really work. I'm sure lots of people will easily fill up 4gb of vram and force the renderer into cpu mode...

    The 4GB of ram was not pulled out of thin air, it was the point where most scenes render on the Card's VRAM, and doesn't cause too many conflicts with the OpenGL/drawing requirements of the viewport. Yes, you are going to run into scenes that will not fit into 4GB, but 4 people, with clothes and hair in an environment fit into 4GB with most scenes. 2GB will generally hold one person, a simple environment, and hair without exceeding the card.

    Using the Iray viewport will generally run into conflicts with other things your OS is doing and crash the Video card driver if you only have 2GB of RAM and appears to be quite stable, in most circumstances with 4GB. This is not to say you can't get by with 2GB of Video Ram, if you are careful, or that you can't crash 4GB of RAM if you try, or if you build big scenes.

    We chose to recommend 4GB for general stability and ease of use.

    Post edited by DAZ_Spooky on
  • IvyIvy Posts: 7,164
    edited December 1969

    well daz 4.8 installed but the scenebuildr still failed..
    do I need it or can i still use 4.8 with otu it?

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  • larsmidnattlarsmidnatt Posts: 4,511
    edited March 2015

    Daz_Spooky, thanks for trying but...I know most of the Daz crowd is ultra casual and avoid knowing what is actually going on, but I think the software needs to have tools/information what more experienced users expect to see.

    If you open some stone mason scenes, or Alex P Jungle scenes those will eat up more than 4GB of vram easy. Unless Iray is automatically compressing textures..which I think I see a setting for.

    The amount of Vram needed varies a LOT based on many factors. So saying 4gb is a magic number doesn't fly for those of us who know what we are doing. What if I told you from experience I could get 6 people in a scene with clothes and use less than 3 GB of Vram? With sub d set to 2 for each character?

    I want to know how much Vram Iray thinks it needs based on the current scene to render. Is that available? My testing suggests there is no such monitor for Vram usage. This will be an important feature for those of us who actually plan to focus on GPU rendering.

    Post edited by larsmidnatt on
  • RogerbeeRogerbee Posts: 4,460
    edited December 1969

    DAZ_Spooky said:
    Rogerbee said:

    Ok, I've been through this thread and can't seem to see what benefit all this is going to be for anyone that doesn't have an Nvidia card. I have an AMD, so what's in it for me!? So far all I seem to have seen is how good it is for Nvidia users, but, what about others that aren't!?

    I love DS, but, I don't want to feel penalised because I don't have 'the right graphics card'

    CHEERS!

    This is NVIDIA's render engine. :)

    No video card required at all, well other than needing the proper level of OpenGL. You won't get any advantage from your AMD graphics card but you aren't penalized either.

    The render quality is the same.

    I see, back when I built this machine last year, I made sure I got the best setup I could within the budget I had. The 2GB AMD 7790 that I went for seemed ideal for running DS in the state it was in at the time and it is still good for 4.7. I really can't afford to lay out for another graphics card just to use a feature that I may seldom use. It was the same with the CMS, all the 4.X versions of DS have all run pretty much trouble free because I haven't used it. I don't use the DIM either so I will wait and see what the full version of 4.8 will do and take it from there. (I keep all my installers, so, if I don't like one version I can go back to one I do like.)

    When it comes to technology, all too often, assumptions are made by companies and they never consult the users, it's why Windows 8 was such a flop. If you stay in line with what the user wants and don't foist things upon them that they have no knowledge of or desire to use, then things run smoothly. DS is what it is and there is no point trying to compete with the big boys (3DS Max et al) because then we'll end up paying for it which I think would destroy the Daz ethos.

    CHEERS!

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