Morph Loader Pro makes morph turn model inside-out [Solved]

lukon100lukon100 Posts: 562

Morph gets created without any error messages.

When I test the morph, it just turns my model inside-out.

The scale of the morph file got imported at the same scale as the original model. (Both are made in Blender.)

What's up with this?

Post edited by lukon100 on

Comments

  • You probably have a different preset selected in the OBJ export adn Morph import dialogues, in this case with scales correctly inverted but with different axis systems.

  • lukon100lukon100 Posts: 562

    Thanks for your help, Richard.

    But how exactly do I make the parameters exactly the same in both dialog windows when the same parameters do not appear in both dialog windows?

    Are the parameters labled differently in the dialog boxes?

    I do see that the "Scale" and the "Axis Conversions" are labled the same. But I don't see anything else the same.

    So here is a screenshot of both dialog boxes as I see them. If you could point out how to equalize any more relevant import parameters, that would be a big help.

     

    Morph Problem.jpg
    1280 x 2050 - 1M
  • The From button in the moprh import dialogue should be the same as the one in the OBJ export dialogue (you show the inmport dialiogue). If the exporter is not using one of the presets then use the Save Preset button to save the settings, and pick those in the morph import dialogue.

  • lukon100lukon100 Posts: 562

    Richard Haseltine said:

    The From button in the moprh import dialogue should be the same as the one in the OBJ export dialogue (you show the inmport dialiogue). If the exporter is not using one of the presets then use the Save Preset button to save the settings, and pick those in the morph import dialogue

    Thanks again, Richard.

    Unfortunately, when using the exact same "From" button settings, the problem persists.

  • lukon100lukon100 Posts: 562
    edited December 2021

    Also, my modeling program is Blender 2.79 and the export to .obj settings are check-marked as follows:

    Checked - Selection Only
    Not Checked - Animation
    Checked - Apply Modifiers
    Not Checked - Smooth Groups
    Not Checked - Bitflag Smooth Groups
    Checked - Write Normals
    Checked - Include UVs
    Checked - Write Materials
    Not Checked - Triangulate Faces
    Not Checked - Write Nurbs
    Not Checked - Polygroups
    Checked - Objects as OBJ Objects
    Not Checked - Objects as OBJ Groups
    Not Cheked - Material Groups
    Checked - Keep Vertex Order

    Post edited by lukon100 on
  • They should be the same, the scale for example needs to be inverted (if you export at 10% then you need to import at 1,000%). Using (or saving) a preset lets Daz Studio handle that for you.

  • lukon100lukon100 Posts: 562
    edited December 2021

    Richard Haseltine said:

    They should be the same, the scale for example needs to be inverted (if you export at 10% then you need to import at 1,000%). Using (or saving) a preset lets Daz Studio handle that for you.

    There was no exporting from Daz to Blender. The models originate in Blender and are transferred from Blender to Daz only. So ther is no scale difference as a result of such transfers.

    Everything else IS the same.

    But I see from posts like this one that Morph Loader Pro is not quite ready for prime time, as it produces such mysterious inconsistent behavior for several people, like this person who posted here: https://www.daz3d.com/forums/discussion/32417/morph-loader-is-giving-me-inconsistent-results-and-i-don-t-understand-why

    ... and that issue for them was not resolved.

    I also read another post in which someone suggested that a mesh with triangles in it will produce errors in Morph Loader Pro. Can someone confirm this?

    On that other post I read the solution for them was to reduce vertex count and not use close parallel surfaces, as in, get rid of the inner surface of the hat they were trying to morph.

    Things like this give me the impression that there's a lot of booby traps in Morph Loader Pro that few people know how to avoid.

    Is there a document that covers how to avoid these booby traps, for the rest of us regular users?

     

    Post edited by lukon100 on
  • Ok, if you are importing an OBJ from Blender and a morph then yes, the two importers need to match - though I'm not actually seeing a difference in your screen shots. Are you sure the export settings from Blender were consistent?

  • lukon100lukon100 Posts: 562
    edited December 2021

    Richard Haseltine said:

    Ok, if you are importing an OBJ from Blender and a morph then yes, the two importers need to match - though I'm not actually seeing a difference in your screen shots. Are you sure the export settings from Blender were consistent?

    Well, anything is possible. I could have unconsciously had a finger twitch on my mouse and thus change an export setting between exporting my model and exporting the morph for the model. But that seems way unlikely.

    But what about this?:

    Maybe the morph file contains vertices that are identical to some vertices used in a morph that I had already made, thus creating a "vertice identy collision" in Daz.

    Consider this:

    The morph I'm trying to make is to open a door, a door for a hut.

    I have already successfully made and saved a version of this door-opening morph, but for a model of just the door in it's door frame.
    Now, I am doing the same thing for a model of the entire hut, including the door and it's frame. The model of the entire hut with door and frame includes the same verticies as that comprise just the door and frame, and likwise with the corresponding morph versions. Exact same verticies moving along the exact same deltas. Just a different model that has additional static mesh.

    So maybe the repeated verticies clash with the existing morph that already involves them.

    Is this possible?

    Post edited by lukon100 on
  • Moprhs move in straight lines, if the door is sliding that will work but if it's switnging then it will, for fully open, just shrinmk down to a line at the hinges and then grow out again.

  • lukon100lukon100 Posts: 562

    Richard Haseltine said:

    Moprhs move in straight lines, if the door is sliding that will work but if it's switnging then it will, for fully open, just shrinmk down to a line at the hinges and then grow out again.

    Ya the doors do not swing on hinges. They shrink to open and re-grow to close, and do so in straight paths resembing the movement of doors that slide into wall cavities. So straight line motion is what I want. And it all works perfeclty on the version of it for the door with just the frame. It only turns the model inside-out on the bigger version that includes the entire hut.

  • lukon100lukon100 Posts: 562
    edited December 2021

    A visual of the problem:

     

    Door Morph Problem.jpg
    1220 x 1657 - 1M
    Post edited by lukon100 on
  • That's the vertex order not being preserved - check the Blender export dialogue as there is a setting to make sure that order is preserved (which you'd need to use with both base model and morph).

  • lukon100lukon100 Posts: 562

    Richard Haseltine said:

    That's the vertex order not being preserved - check the Blender export dialogue as there is a setting to make sure that order is preserved (which you'd need to use with both base model and morph).

    I don't think that's the problem at all.

    I have been exporting my model and morph files from Blender with the option to preserve vertex order checked, i.e., turned on.

  • lukon100 said:

    Richard Haseltine said:

    That's the vertex order not being preserved - check the Blender export dialogue as there is a setting to make sure that order is preserved (which you'd need to use with both base model and morph).

    I don't think that's the problem at all.

    I have been exporting my model and morph files from Blender with the option to preserve vertex order checked, i.e., turned on.

    Do you preserve vertex order on import and export as well?

  • lukon100lukon100 Posts: 562

    TheMysteryIsThePoint said:

    lukon100 said:

    Richard Haseltine said:

    That's the vertex order not being preserved - check the Blender export dialogue as there is a setting to make sure that order is preserved (which you'd need to use with both base model and morph).

    I don't think that's the problem at all.

    I have been exporting my model and morph files from Blender with the option to preserve vertex order checked, i.e., turned on.

    Do you preserve vertex order on import and export as well?

    Good question. My answer is that I don't know. I can only vouch for exporting from Blender. I don't even know how to check whether Morph Loader Pro preserves vertex order. If you happen to know how to check, please do let me know.

  • lukon100 said:

    TheMysteryIsThePoint said:

    lukon100 said:

    Richard Haseltine said:

    That's the vertex order not being preserved - check the Blender export dialogue as there is a setting to make sure that order is preserved (which you'd need to use with both base model and morph).

    I don't think that's the problem at all.

    I have been exporting my model and morph files from Blender with the option to preserve vertex order checked, i.e., turned on.

    Do you preserve vertex order on import and export as well?

    Good question. My answer is that I don't know. I can only vouch for exporting from Blender. I don't even know how to check whether Morph Loader Pro preserves vertex order. If you happen to know how to check, please do let me know.

    I'm sorry, I meant both in Blender; when you import into Blender and when you export back out.

  • lukon100lukon100 Posts: 562

    TheMysteryIsThePoint said:

    lukon100 said:

    TheMysteryIsThePoint said:

    lukon100 said:

    Richard Haseltine said:

    That's the vertex order not being preserved - check the Blender export dialogue as there is a setting to make sure that order is preserved (which you'd need to use with both base model and morph).

    I don't think that's the problem at all.

    I have been exporting my model and morph files from Blender with the option to preserve vertex order checked, i.e., turned on.

    Do you preserve vertex order on import and export as well?

    Good question. My answer is that I don't know. I can only vouch for exporting from Blender. I don't even know how to check whether Morph Loader Pro preserves vertex order. If you happen to know how to check, please do let me know.

    I'm sorry, I meant both in Blender; when you import into Blender and when you export back out.

    Oh. Well that's easy to address. I don't import anything into Blender. Both the model to be morphed and the morph file originate in Blender. Both are exported from Blender to Daz. So both of them got exported from Blender with the exact same export settings, including the setting to preserve vertex order.

  • lukon100lukon100 Posts: 562
    edited January 2

    This problem is solved.

    The fix:

    Combine the separate objects comprising my model, and morph version of my model, prior to exporting from Blender.

    Do not rely on the fact that Blender will automatically combine all highlighted objects into one model when it exports to .obj. Blender will do that automatic combining, but may do so in a way that produces different vertex ordering for models that are otherwise very similar, such as a model and it’s corresponding morph version.

    I suspect models comprising just two objects might be ok. But for 3 or more, Blender will likely build differing vertex orders.

    When I began to suspect this was the problem, I first simply tried to select my objects in a consistent order before exporting. That failed. Then I did a full combining of the constituent objects before exporting. And that, for whatever glorious reason, worked.

    I suspect it probably also matters how one joins the constituent objects.

    I had 3 constituent objects, only one of which has a morph version.

    To prevent Blender from shuffling the vertex order of the 2 non-morphed objects, I made sure to combine them first. Then I made a duplicate of that combined object so I could subsequently combine one of them with the non-morphed version of the 3rd object, and combine the other with the morphed version of the 3rd object.

    Post edited by lukon100 on
  • stem_athomestem_athome Posts: 434

    lukon100 said:

    Do not rely on the fact that Blender will automatically combine all highlighted objects into one model when it exports to .obj. Blender will do that automatic combining, but may do so in a way that produces different vertex ordering for models that are otherwise very similar, such as a model and it’s corresponding morph version.

    You had set (in blender export setting) Objects as -> Obj objects. Blender will not combine objects on export with that setting. It is DS that combines them on import.

  • lukon100lukon100 Posts: 562
    edited January 3

    stem_athome said:

    lukon100 said:

    Do not rely on the fact that Blender will automatically combine all highlighted objects into one model when it exports to .obj. Blender will do that automatic combining, but may do so in a way that produces different vertex ordering for models that are otherwise very similar, such as a model and it’s corresponding morph version.

    You had set (in blender export setting) Objects as -> Obj objects. Blender will not combine objects on export with that setting. It is DS that combines them on import.

    Osum! Thanks, stem_athome, for the insight here. Now I know a little more about how Blender works and how to avoid my problem in the future.

    Post edited by lukon100 on
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