Blatant Postwork Cheating
JoeMamma2000
Posts: 2,615
I want to turn myself in, and beg forgiveness for an episode of BLATANT postwork (and implied cheating) on what was a Carrara render. :) :) :)
I realize it's wrong, in many ways, but I did it, and I have no excuse... :) :) :)
Anyway, somewhere in there is a Carrara render of a duck-diving surfer dude-ette. Oh, and the surfboard was modelled in Hex, not Carrara, so yet another infraction I'm guilty of... :) :)
And to make things worse, I forgot to model the skeg of the surfboard and had to later composite one in.
Oh, and I really don't like Carrara hair, so I found a nice foto of flowing hair and composited that too. A lot quicker and easier and with much better results, IMO.
And the bikini top was drawn in, poorly, cuz I ran out of time.
The image has something like 15 or 20 layers in it. Oh, and the sand is a texture-mapped plane in Carrara. But the wave, and bubbles, and all the other stuff is just manipulated fotos I grabbed off the internet.
Anyway, the point is that compositing gives you infinite control over every tiny aspect of your image, and if done right (unlike this one), it can do things that straight renders will NEVER even come close to.
I realize it's blasphemy to some here, and I apologize, but for others it might be a fun exercise to see what you can accomplish using cheats like this.
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Comments
Thanks for posting, Joe. Looks great! Hope you post more. RE: attempts to restrict your render posts (which I was not aware of), warning, I am ascending the soap box.
Not sure what the row is concerning blasphemy and rules against postwork. I wasn't aware of those rules. Unfortunately, some artists have for thousands of years promulgated conventions and rules and then tried to shame those that don't follow them. I would not let such artists restrict myself. Don't let them restrict you - please post more renders.
Don't let anyone on this forum restrict your render postings (within the TOS), even if what they say has been the convention or rule among artists for thousands of years - even if in their vast experience as an expert in the field they try to tell you that your render annoys what they and the other experts expect.
See
http://www.shira.net/culture/kemetic-2d-art.htm
Some experts for thousands of years had a convention that the head in profile was to present the eye from the frontal view. Now the convention is different. Both are welcome on the Carrara forum, according to the only rules I know. Don't even bother to point me to where restrictive Carrara forum rules and Carrara forum conventions are (again, except the TOS), I won't be bound by them.
I hope everyone on the forum welcomes renders with postwork, and renders without postwork. If there is a convention regarding postwork, to use it or not to use it, feel free to break that convention when you attach a render. I am confident that Mama Chohole will not swat you with a club and take down the render as long as it is otherwise within the TOS. Naturally, if someone starts a thread entitled WITH POSTWORK or a thread entitled WITHOUT POSTWORK, or if a thread expects to compare the version WITH AND WITHOUT postwork, it is fine to have rules and conventions limited for that thread and it would be good manners to abide by the rule within the thread - but not if it is intended to shame or restrict people from posting with or without postwork in other threads.
To everyone, use postwork, or don't, as you wish. Don't let anyone attempt to shame you into changing your choice regarding posting an image just because the image doesn't conform to the conventions they were taught in their art classes (or include in art classes that they teach) as long as you abide by the TOS. Why, it would be like trying to make everyone show the head in profile with a frontal eye just because artists did that for thousands of years. Up with that we should not put! (Last line is a variation on Churchill).
Love the render Joe. Don't let the b@$tards get you down! Not sure who the bastards are that won't let you attach a render with postwork, but I support you posting it 100%. Setting aside any artistic concerns, such attempts to restrict your render attachments (attempts that I was not aware of) offend me in more important ways.
We are Charlie.
Some people are "purist" some are not. Some just want to produce the best image that they can, some produce a 3d render and then postwork it to look non 3d, it's horses for courses.
In the Bryce forum on another site the Moderator is a purist and had a habit of threatening Heretics (non purists) with the comfy chair. He gained the nickname of "The Cardinal"
Incidentally I have been threatened with that comfy chair many times. :coolsmile:
For still images artists, I think the post-work is essential, very nice image Joe !
If it was me, I would add some rough with the sand down the surf and a few bubbles wich come out the mouth of the woman.
Diomede I was merely poking a little fun at what seems to be a fairly common perception here, and that is that compositing is, at the least, not really high on most people's priorities, and at the most, some sort of cheating, and that you should do most or all of your work in Carrara for some reason.
In the years I've been here I can't recall ever hearing a deep discussion of the tools and methods and skills involved in compositing, other than some folks doing some very simple and basic compositing by, say, adding a video texture on a billboard or something like that.
In the professional world, compositing is at the heart of virtually every feature film you've ever seen, as well as most other stuff you watch. So I'm poking a little fun at folks who think it's somehow not cool to do much compositing.
It's not poking fun Joe, despite your claims to the contrary. It's you mocking people here for whatever reason only you and a trusted professional would understand.
How many times do you need to hear it? When someone posts that they have done no postwork, it is usually meant for informational purposes and not as a brag. Look at any of the challenge WIP threads and you will see heavy use of of post-work, and not just levels adjustments- I mean actual compositing using layer passes and everything. Sometimes the challenge hosts will require a straight render to be posted along with the post-worked render to illustrate what was done.
I will also occasionally post that I use GI, no GI or partial GI. That is also meant as information.
An example of compositing and the WIP showing my layers:
http://www.daz3d.com/forums/discussion/47148/P390/#697243
http://www.daz3d.com/forums/discussion/47148/P390/#697248
Oh, and here are some links where I actually explain what I did with lighting and shading to actually try and help people on the forum without also trying to insul- I mean "poke fun" at them:
http://www.daz3d.com/forums/discussion/47148/P450/#698881
http://www.daz3d.com/forums/discussion/47148/P450/#698885
And to prove that I'm not a one trick pony, here's another one that needed compositing to get the effect that I wanted:
http://www.daz3d.com/forums/discussion/29066/P60/#434559
There are others that use post-work regularly. Instead of assuming, poke through the WIP threads, you may be surprised.
I mostly say no postwork by way of apology as not finished
I thought that is what most actually meant by it
Even then, it's still information. ;-)
LOL. Me too.
I tend to post-work my images heavily, including compositing in photographic elements and just plain painting over things but I'm still learning Carrara so a lot of my Carrara images have very little done to them after the render just because I am trying to figure out how to do things in Carrara so I know what it is capable of. I've used DAZ Studio for years and there are plenty of things I know how to do in it that I never actually do in the program because it's faster and easier to do in Photoshop - but to find that out I first had to learn to do them.
So when I say "no postwork" or "very little postwork" what I usually mean is "sorry about the quality of some of this, it's not what I'd call a complete image, just showing something I did/learned with this program."
Mark
Not that it matters but Evil Producer's examples of post work here would get me more interested in post work than Joe's image which I find very dull and unattractive.....:lol: (poking fun!)
P.S. in case it matters, I am not one of the evil ones (pun not intended E.P.....or maybe it should be? :coolsmirk:) Joe, I actually got P.D. Howler (with all of Dartanbeck's posts on Howler, you mean you never noticed that he was talking about post work there?) and actually use Fusion as well. I also remember Steve K has shared his work using Particle Illusion often in this forum. So given that you often ask people to apologize for not appreciating your work sharing from your knowledge on this forum, I think you should apologize to the good people of this forum :lol:....(poking fun!) who you have discredited in this post but who actually not only use postwork but have also taken time in the past to share how they do it. I for one would benefit more from your obsession with post work if you shared some of the tips and tricks you would recommend for using Fusion for example, and of course, more inspiring images. :lol: (poking fun again!)
Given that this is the Carrara Forum, most conversations will revolve around getting something done IN Carrara. Just as you won't expect the Fusion forum to have a high number of 3d modelling questions / threads. But you know that Joe, people have pointed that out in the past when you raised this post work matter.....oh sorry I remember, you're just poking fun!
Evil, I wasn't talking about you personally. I realize you tend to take any "not so positive" comments made in this forum personally, even if they are not directed at you, but it is merely my heavy handed way of trying to encourage people here to try new things. Granted, it is out of frustration that I tend to use what you see as a "mocking" tone, but that's due to so many here constantly digging their heels in and protecting their egos rather than just accepting a challenge to try and learn new things. Instead of constantly trying to prove you're right (and I don't mean anyone in particular), just try something new, or learn something new. Yes, this is a Carrara forum, but that doesn't mean you can't explore new worlds while still using Carrara.
I apologize to those who got offended. But geez people, just relax and try new things and learn new things. The world doesn't revolve around Carrara.
Nonsense!
If it can't be created in a first-pass render, it should not be permitted to be seen at all! :ahhh:
Yeah, good point, Joe. It's amazing what can be done with a bit of search-engine work, image gathering... a snip here, a fade there, perhaps apply a filter or three... not only is it amazing what can be done, but it is incredibly fun as well! I did that for my album covers long before I got into 3d, and then I'd use magazines and other items to get images and text back before I had a computer. Then I'd paint onto collages of this and that to come up with all manner of fun pictures. Then I'd run them to my local printer and have them merge it all into a full-sized color poster as well as shrunk versions that I could further edit for the cassette tape jewel box covers. Loads of fun, and local folks thought I was some sort of artistic genius! LOL (but we all know better than that! LOL)
Just to add to this thread:
Using Carrara as a Layer Editor
As we've seen hint of many times over, the Texture Room has a powerful assortment of assignments, filters, and tweaks that we can apply to a surface. Using png with alpha, alpha maps, or any other of many, unlimited ideas we can use planes over Backdrops, Backgrounds, and/or Atmospheres to do things not normally done by the masses in a 3d rendering suite. I mentioned png (or BMP or 32 bit tga) with alpha because we can use such images without a mask to show only the image we want to be seen on something ridiculously simple, like a primitive plane. That same plane can then even be seen as a three-dimensional object via displacement, bump and/or normal maps, as well as the many procedural functions available, etc.,
"Oh man... It's too clean looking! I should have added some fog!"
Volumetric Clouds can help to slow down a render to a real crawl - especially in a busy scene. As a quick example of one of my experiments, I've made a nice backdrop scene - an outdoor landscape with v-clouds and an Realistic Sky atmosphere and then shot the render. If I'd have used that scene as it was in an animation, it would have really slowed down the entire production. I knew that I would want to have the ability to pan the camera around, rotate it, whatever... so I made it into a spherical map for the Background channel.
I needed to add some moving fog to the animation that I had set up. Since I've already designed the animation, I've already put several cameras in motion to follow the action from various dramatic perspectives and saved the scene. During some test renders, I've realized that I really needed to have some moving fog that the characters were a midst. One character's hair uses transmaps, so I knew that I would have ghosting aberrations wherever the hair and the fog would intersect. So I added the fog and put it in motion. Then I made the characters invisible and rendered the scene through each camera.
Opening the scene again using the save before I've added the fog, I left the background image for reflection information, and added one of the animated renders from one of the cameras into the backdrop and rendered the character's animation through the camera whose backdrop is being used - repeat for each camera, using the respective avi in the backdrop.
Now I open the save 'after' adding the fog and, while the characters are still invisible, set the fog to be much less dense, keeping the rest of the settings the same and rendered again, using the latest animated render avi files for each respective camera.
That's one simple example, but we can do the same thing without characters, without natural scenes, just using planes or other primitives, particles, etc., and it's actually pretty amazing what can be done just using scene settings alone.
Howler uses the alpha channel as a place to store the selection. So what is selected is actually what Howler considers to be Alpha, and it has many things that can be done with the alpha. I just wanted to explain that so that you know that if I say "Alpha" when talking about Howler, I'm talking about what is currently selected as the active area for editing. We can also blur the edges of the selection, grow it, shrink it, and apply effects to it. Well now, as of one of the latest versions of Howler, like 8.2 or so, we can use animations in the alpha! this is huge! So we can load in a clip, either avi or sequenced image animation (or just build a new animation) and use it as a selection. If such a thing isn't suitable as a selection, we can turn it into one easy enough. Apply filters, use rotoscoping tools, or some other method... Howler is loaded with ways to manipulate the pixels!
I don't know how much of this stuff is available in Photoshop. I have attended a seminar a while back, where Philip Staiger conducted examples of how to use Howler along with Photoshop - which was very informative to me - and was mostly about showing PS users some of what Howler can do... since it was never designed to compete with PS, but be something else, entirely. I cannot yet afford (or justify the expense?) of PS, so to me Howler IS direct competition with PS - and I don't even think I need to look into it anymore. But I didn't come to talk about that! LOL I just meant that I bet there are wonderful ways to interact, back and forth between PS and Carrara as well - making even more fun and interesting ways to create the images that we want to see - and have others see.
It is cool to see some Joe-art! Looks cool! ;)
I wasn't assuming you were talking about me. You were clearly trying to insult the community at large. I posted my examples because, one, they are representative of the fact that other people use postwork here, and two, I knew where to find my WIPs and images. You're a smart guy, so I can only assume you knew that already and are trying to deflect- again.
As to learning and trying new things, I would suggest that for many, many months, folks here have been trying new things and learning new things through the Challenges and WIP threads, and in a fun, non-combative, non-sarcastic manner which tends to better foster a sense of community and a healthy learning environment.
Just a quick example of using the Texture Room:
Just for kicks, after you map the image onto a plane or whatever, you can control its brightness by using the color map in the glow channel, and use the image brightness slider in the glow channel to adjust the brightness or add a modifier to make it brighter. Now copy thhat same image into the bump channel. See what happens when you crank the slider all the way up to 250 - or type in the maximum of 500. Does it look cool? do you need more? Try a multiplier in the bump. Try copying that same image into the highlight channel. See what happens when you invert the color or tell it to be only black and white. Try it in the Transparency > Intensity channel. Try it in the Reflection > Shader channel. Try it as a displacement map. We can also use maps in the shininess channel, which can change how sharply the light reacts on the model, even if the model is actually just a 2d plane!
Play around with stuff like this. Does it totally screw stuff up? Undo it and try something else - or try inverting the image in that channel - or multiply it by a set of wires, a noise, a fractal pattern... Play around in the Texture Room as you would try new things in PS or whatever image editor you use. And since Carrara 8.5 we now have the ability to Add Layers to our channels, making the fun (and power) just that much more intense! :ahhh:
Hey Dart, did you mean to upload examples? If so, you forgot.
Ah. The mention of an example through me off. Noting to see here...!
Joe,
This is a 2d skills vs 3d skills discussion. You're treating them as if they are the same thing because they both relate to editing of pixels, but they are distinctly different entities.
I think it unfair to assume that all renders free of postwork are somehow unfinished. Postwork should be applied on a case by case basis.
In the first place, it is a mistake to assume that everyone out there already knows how to apply corrective and flattering postwork to their images. Some people just don't know any better. I am a perfect example of an artist who can jump in there with both hands with 3d manipulation, but I am clueless about 2d manipulation and I don't think I should feel bad about it. Do I apply a Dodge filter here, or a Burn? Do I use a Multiply filter or do I use a Luminance filter? Do I adjust the Histogram, or do I simply lower the overall saturation? Heck if I know!! Maybe, I should adjust my lights and re-render. Ah, yeah, that's it!!!
2D manipulation is a completely separate class set of skills unrelated to 3d manipulation, and not everyone is interested in 2d manipulation which is probably WHY they got started in 3d in the first place. Duh.
Imagine I log into the forums today and see an awesome image in a Carrara thread. The original poster simply states that the image was rendered in Carrara, and as a newbie to Carrara, I am extremely impressed with the cumulus clouds. I make a comment to the poster saying, "Wow, those clouds are amazing. I've never been able to generate clouds that realistic from Carrara. Do you mind sharing your settings, tips, because that level of control is exactly what I want from Carrara?" That's when the poster eventually comes back and says, "Oh, sorry, I forgot to mention that the clouds are photoshopped in as postwork. I downloaded the clouds from the internet. But Good luck with Carrara." That is when one starts considering the postwork as misleading, because it is hard to gauge the value of postwork unless you have the original unprocessed render right next to it.
Isn't it nice to see for yourself what the software can do without that impression being in some way clouded and possibly "corrected" by the intangible skills of some clever photoshopper who's skills in photoshop might far exceed your own? Because that is how a person like me with limited 2d manipulation skills might look at this.
"No postwork" in my own case means "This is the true output of the software you paid hard earned cash for, with no distracting corrections from my clever 2d manipulation skills. You can expect to achieve these same results or better with this software."
Look at my Daz3d gallery. Every single render I produce is an advertisement for the software I rendered them with. I always include not only my name and the date, but the application I used for the render. I want people to see what I can do with Bryce, so I mention that it is a Bryce render there on the image itself so people know what they could expect if they buy into it. These types of "advertisements" help to spread awareness about these niche applications we keep saying are dying here at Daz3d. We should be using our work to help sell more copies of Carrara is what I'm saying and that cannot happen if the original Carrara renders are being buried in postwork.
To add: Just because postworking is easier for some people sometimes doesn't mean we should always take the easiest route.
If you resort to postworking every time you encounter a difficulty with the raw render, then one is not pushed very hard to find solutions within the application itself. And more often than not, there probably is a solution available within Carrara itself if you take the time to find and optimize it. In my opinion, relying on postwork stunts one's growth within the given app by giving them an easy way out.
In Bryce, there are a million effects I've produced natively that people swore to me could only be done in postwork. I proved them wrong every single time.
If the render is too dark, sure I can brighten it in post, but I could also increase my lights and re-render. If I was doing an animation, I'd want to limit in every way the amount of postworking I was applying, the more often I could use the raw render the faster I'll get the project completed.
While I do care how awesome an artist overall may be, I'm much more concerned with what they can do in Carrara. Yeah, you might be a whiz with photoshop, but that doesn't guarantee one knows how to get it done any other way.
There is nothing wrong with being proud that you stuck with it and didn't rely on postwork. Chances are by not using postwork you learned more about Carrara than the person who postworked all their problems away.
This is after-all, a Carrara forum, not a Gimp forum.
Rashad,
Thanks for the great explanation. And it clearly outlines the differences in perspectives and approaches, depending on one's background.
For some in a professional environment, software is virtually irrelevant. Professionals are solely interested in the product, the quality of the product, and the efficiency with which they can generate the product. They have an idea that they want to convey to an audience, and as artists they, right or wrong, come up with their approach on how to best convey that idea or emotion or story. And software is merely a tool. And whether you use Carrara or Maya or Photoshop or a photo that someone else took, it's all fairly irrelevant.
As is, for many, the issue of "what Carrara can do". Most 3D software does virtually the same thing. Carrara does the same as Maya which does the same as Blender which does the same as DAZ Studio. Yeah, there are exceptions, but basically it comes down to the artist, not the software. Few here will accept or believe that, but for most professionals it's what they believe. Yeah, some knock anything that isn't Maya, for example, but that's just childish game playing and ego stroking... :) :) :)
Everything in the real world is postworked. And for those interested in the quality of their product, and the efficiency of obtaining that result, postworking is the way to go. It can greatly improve quality, gives far more control, improves efficiency, and as a result saves a lot of money in the production pipeline.
As always, I only suggest to people here that they open their eyes and minds to other opportunities for learning and enjoyment. I'm not promoting postwork or anything else. I don't care what anyone does. I'm merely encouraging people to stop saying NO !! to everything I suggest or challenge solely because they don't like the person suggesting it, and TRY it. The responses I generally receive to any suggestions or recommendations is either "No, you're wrong, and I'm not going to do what you suggest", or "No, you're wrong, I'm already doing that", or "No, you're wrong, and I'll spend the next week trying to find proof that anything you said can be even slightly misinterpreted to be incorrect". But generally the response begins with NO !!!, as opposed to an open minded, willing to learn attitude of "Hey, maybe even though I hate you you have a good point and I'll consider it".
Anyway, people are people and you'll never change them, so I guess I'll continue to offer my best suggestions and comments and, as Evil says, it will be more of the "same old, same old" arguments and negative responses.
And by the way, your distinction between 2D and 3D skills is a bit puzzling to me. Not sure I understand it. Yeah, you need to learn more skills as you expand your abilities, but like I mentioned, it's not a bad thing, it's a good thing. 2D/compositing software doesn't have cooties or anything... :) :) :) :)
Like I described, *IF* your goal is to produce a certain image that tells your story or conveys your emotion, then you do what you need to do to accomplish that goal. And if it's a lot more difficult to do it using only one application, or maybe will cost you more time or money or hassle, then you consider doing it some other way. So maybe you need to learn some more skills, or pass it off to someone else who can do it for you.
But should we not even discuss it in a Carrara forum if it isn't solely a Carrara issue? Personally, I think that's kind of silly, and frustrating. We discuss Christmas lights, why not discuss issues that are related to the stuff everyone is producing?
Personally, I think that expanding your horizons and learning more stuff is a good thing. Now if your only interest is in playing with 3D software cuz that's what you find fun, then fine, do what you want. I just encourage people to step outside their comfort zone and try new things, because one thing I've learned in life is that when you do that you often encounter some cool, wonderful things you never expected.
Oh, and one more point I want to make... :) :) :)
In the example I posted at the top of this thread, one aspect of the image I posted is a composited photo of a woman's hair. It took me all of 15 minutes to find a photo of flowing hair on the internet, tweak it a bit, and composite it on top of a rendered Carrara character. Now, that approach may not be for everyone, but it is a clear example of how you can get some decent looking hair in your rendered image with very little time and effort.
And for someone who will spend hours or days trying to figure out how to get a decent render of Carrara dynamic hair, this is a REASONABLE option, as long as that person is willing to step outside his world and try something new. But it takes someone who is open minded and wants to try new things.
OTOH, if that person enjoys spending days figuring out how to use Carrara's dynamic hair, then there's nothing wrong with that if that's what you want. But at least be a bit open minded and allow that it is a reasonable option for those whose goal is a nice image that is done quickly and efficiently. And no, I'm not referring to anyone in particular, just to general perceptions I've noticed over the years.
Although I'm sure I'm wrong about those perceptions too. Right Evil? :) :) :) :)
Joe, since you like exercises, why don't you try a little critical self examination and re-read your initial post in this thread. Did it start out with, I would like to introduce you to some concepts in compositing, or something similar? Did it offer any practical advice on how to actually, you know, composite? No?
Instead, we were treated to yet another misconception about the folks that come here. You can sarcastically embellish the post with all the smiley emoticons you want, but those of us that have been here the longest know better.
I realize I will come off to you as the thin-skinned chump that gets all riled up over what you perceive as imagined slights, but in reality, I am probably one of the very few, if not the only person here that actually owns bovines, so I can well and truly say, thank you, no, I already have enough B.S. You can keep your own.
If you want to offer compositing advice or tutorials without the digs, insults and sarcasm, then that would be truly awesome, but as you say, people don't change. Personally, I hope you're wrong.
And just a little point about mining the internet for images... It's great if it is for your own use, but start publishing it on websites (even if no money is exchanged), or entering it in challenges or selling it, then you start running into legal issues. Read the TOS or EULAs for sites such as FB, and you'll realize what you put up, they can use for advertisements and promotions, which starts getting into commercial use...
I personally don't have any experience with big production firms and ad agencies, but I would imagine they wouldn't look kindly on someone trying to get a job that presented a portfolio of ripped off images. I would hope they would look down on it, but then again, you're the professional Joe. You would know. Was it common practice to rip stuff off from on-line sources where you worked?
Hey Joe, while your talking about having an open mind ...... :-) ...... aaaa ,,,,,,,, uummm .... :-) .. often when I read your posts, a saying that I've found to be quite true comes to mind, "You can catch a lot more flies with honey than with vinegar." :) Often it seems like your trying to catch flies with vinegar, which can make both you and the flies a bit agitated. :roll: I think possibly a lot of the negative reactions you receive could just possibly be how you deliver the message, rather than the message it's self. Just sayin ....:-) ;-)
I'm a pretty mellow person, and initially I found your post more than a bit offensive. After re-reading it a few times, and focusing on the smiley faces, I came to the conclusion that maybe you were trying to be a bit light hearted with your post, and not put down others who post here (or at least that is how I decided to interpret your original post). But it often is not obvious if you are trying to make a point by joking, or just insulting people. Just sayin ,,,,, :-)
Like Rashad, I enjoy trying to get the the most I can out of the render engine. I'm not a professional, and not an artist, and can't draw worth a crap, So unfortunately some of your ideas simply won't work for me as a time saver, as they will take me a lot longer to accomplish in post than to do it in what ever 3D application I decide to use. That doesn't mean I'm against post-work, I just means for me doing it in the 3D application is often easier, plus I enjoy learning how to fix things in Carrara, DS, Poser, or whatever, rather than showing my horrible drawing and 2D skills with Gimp.
Just keep in mind that something which may be extremely easy/simple for someone like you with great artistic talent and years of experience, can be extremely difficult for someone like me with little or no artistic talent. It literally would take me longer to draw the swimsuit on the rendered girl than to model it myself and render it in 3D.
Should I work on my post-work skills more? Probably - but then again I just do this for fun and to relax a bit, so I tend to do what I find enjoyable. I tend to avoid what I find difficult and un-enjoyable. It's kinda funny though, I get the impression that I'm in the minority here, as It seems like most everyone else uses post-work much more than I do. I guess that just shows how to different people can get totally opposite impressions from the same forum?
Like others have mentioned I like to add in what I've done to the image in the description, if I didn't do any post work, just a couple a simple adjustments, or if I did a lot of post work. I'm not trying to be a render "purist", I just hope it helps others to understand what was done to the image to get to it's final stage.
PS: The hair idea can be a great way to get realistic hair quickly . You should probably also mention that you need to use images where the owner has given you permission to use all or part of the photo in your own art work.
Edit: Late again - EP already mentioned the IP issue with images :red:
Very interesting...just recently I expressed my, well, disgust at someone for posting an animation that, while well done, was animating the audio from a skit done by professionals in a TV show that he had downloaded. And as a result my post got deleted by the mods, and folks were jumping over themselves to present me in a bad light for commenting on the obvious copyright issues, as well as the issue of intending to make others believe the he had written the entire thing.
But now when it's me, the script is flipped, and now I'm the bad guy.
Yes, I'm fully aware of copyright issues, and using stuff in this forum for "educational" purposes is fine. But while I'm sure everyone here knows that, I doubt anyone would be raising the issue to trip me up, right? ... :) :) :)
I didn't delete the post. I didn't even report it. Plus, the OP correctly pointed out that he did credit the audio source in the video credits, In response to your comment. He also clarified that he even sought out the permission of the recording artists, or did you forget that part?
Edited to add, that for my part, yes, it was a little dig, but mostly because you seem to play a little fast and loose with telling people to use all these on-line images without cautioning them to be aware of how they use them. In my opinion, it's a bit irresponsible.
Nope - I'm well aware of the slight leniency toward the use of IP for educational purposes (though that won't keep you from getting a very stern and unpleasant nastygram from ... ohhh ... say Disney's lawers for example), I just thought it might be appropriate to mention it as often people who have never dealt with any IP issues would have no idea that they couldn't use the hair off of an image of Jennifer Lopez for their own image without permission. ;-)
Forget the hair, have you seen her kiester? Now that's some imagery I could put to some good use. :coolgrin: :red:
I very rarely do postwork because (a) I don't think of it and (b) my photoshop skills are rubbish. Add to that, I'm much happier making stuff than rendering it (especially when renders tie up the machine for hours if not days), and my "artistic eye" is somewhat undeveloped.
So as not to offend the suddenly acute legal sensibilities of those in this forum, I will post the pertinent fair use wording from the Copyright Act:
"....for purposes such as criticism, comment, news reporting, teaching (including multiple copies for classroom use), scholarship, or research, is not an infringement of copyright."
Presumably, though I'm not a lawyer, it seems clear that is done here can easily be described as either teaching, scholarship, or research.
Although I believe there IS a section in there which allows you to use copyright infringement to trip someone up and prove him wrong, no matter if it's fair use or not (just a joke...) :) :)