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I went ahead and submitted a ticket as well.
I encourage everyone who is a Carrara user to follow suit.
It's for ALL our benefit
Perhaps they view it more as an annoying ripple of opinion... :) :)
Um, that just links to submiting a new helpdesk ticket... ;)
If you use this link: https://helpdaz.zendesk.com/requests/
and put your request number# directly after the "/requests/" it'll take you to your personal help ticket...
Shouldn't we also be filing one for the Carrara bug tracker? then we all can chime in there too!
Perhaps they view it more as an annoying ripple of opinion... :) :)
Of course you are also welcome to put in a ticket Joe. I am assuming that you still use Carrara ? Of course, some might say we should never make assumptions...
Perhaps they view it more as an annoying ripple of opinion... :) :)
ripples can be annoying and ignored...
Lets massage this ripple into a wave... a sizable tsunamie wave ;)
Um, that just links to submiting a new helpdesk ticket... ;)
If you use this link: https://helpdaz.zendesk.com/requests/
and put your request number# directly after the "/requests/" it'll take you to your personal help ticket...
Shouldn't we also be filing one for the Carrara bug tracker? then we all can chime in there too!
thanks :)
Hi Phil. you say you regularly use Gen2 figures and do not have any issues. Do you have any issues adding Gen2 clothing to the figures. I recently tried to add clothing(Wildenlander HD for Genenis2 male) to a Gen2 figure(Michael6) with and without body builder morphs added and the clothing would not fit. It would fit the basic Gen2 figure. I also tried to fit the Storm Queen outfit to Mei Lin 6 and it would not fit. The outfit did how-ever fit the basic Gen2 figure. Are there issues with adding the surface materials. I tried adding one of the Mei Lin 6 surface face materials and it showed up black on the figure. Are these just compatability issues where Carrara 8.5 Pro only support certain things. Is there any information out there that I can use to figure out which Gen2 figures, morphs, surface materials and clothing are compatable.
Thanks for any help you can provide.
Heya spmwc,
I can't answer for philw, however this is my experiance sofar:
I know with previous releases up until the last 2 releases, Carrara would have issues loading clothing onto Gen2 figures. Once loading say a shirt and pants, anything else like shoes, gloves, other arm and leg armor once past the 2nd item would lock and freeze Carrara until I end it in Windows Task Manager.
The common work around I used would be cloth and morph the Gen2 figure in Studio, then Save-As -> Scene subset , then import into Carrara.
The last 2 builds Beta and Public release, I can seem to load all the clothing / equipment / gear I need onto the Gen2 figure.
Ine thing I have come across is sometimes i'd have to change the parent of one item say a vest or jacket fitting over a shirt would give erronous collision / clothing poke-thru, until i changed the "Parented to" from Gen2 figure to the Shirt its fitting over. The Jacket would then just conform to fitting over the shirt.
I've also had a couple snags, say loading or importing Michael 6 fully clothed from a Daz Studio scene subset, getting a funny error message about not locating some morphs etc. but would work upon trying it again , a second time. This is kinda redundant now, since I just load M6 freshly / natively in Carrara and morph and cloth him there...
There is also RingoMonfort's Carrara line of optimized SSS Skin and hair shaders for Genesis 1 & 2 figures http://www.daz3d.com/ringomonfort
Those work amazing btw! Same idea as the M4 / V4 Carrara Elite shaders that come with Carrara Pro, you load from the Shaders Browser tab.
I just tried Loading Mei Lin 6, and then tried one of the face mats from the Smart Content -> Default -> Materials -> Mei Lin 6 -> Faces .... yeah I also get the black face too. Iooked in the Materials room, and yeah, its just a black color shader for the Nostrils, Face, Lips...
That being said, RingoMonfort is already ontop of this, having done the tedious work for us and produced the Mei Lin 6 Carrara Skin Shader package. Easy Drag and Drop from your Shaders browser onto the figure, with Carrara optimised Highlight, Shininess, Bump, and SubSurfaceScattering presets , essentally the daz studio equivilant. You can get them here: http://www.daz3d.com/dp-mei-lin-6-carrara-shaders
Carrara Browser: Shaders -> Skin -> Genesis 2 -> Mei Lin 6
I just tried it, works like it should. (Due to my custom install and runtime folders locations, i had to manually copy any of the base skin textures folders for the figures from the installed Genesis folder over into Carrara's own "\Carrara\runtime\textures\" folder for any of Ringo's skin shaders to work but thats just me.
I do buy all of Ringo's Carrara stuff. It both helps support Ringo (and for the time and effort he puts into these packages making our carrara experiance easier), as well as show Daz i'm buying for and supporting Carrara.
Of course you are also welcome to put in a ticket Joe. I am assuming that you still use Carrara ? Of course, some might say we should never make assumptions...
I am always a strong proponent of making your voice heard. That's how stuff happens.
But I also think it's obvious that DAZ knows exactly what direction they want to take the company, and they have far more information to base that decision on than we do. They are betting the future of their company on content and DAZ Studio. That's obvious. And they don't see that Carrara will be a strong player (ie, revenue generator) in that future.
I respect that decision. I'm sure they put a great deal of money and effort and worry into that decision. But they're probably right, and that's probably the best future for DAZ as a company.
So while it's good to make your voice heard, at some point you need to recognize you ain't gonna win.
I like Carrara, it's good for some stuff, and I use it for that stuff, but ultimately I'm not expecting it to improve or be developed in any meaningful way. So I've accepted that reality and won't waste time in stuff that won't be fruitful. But that's just me.
The only way I'd ever abandon Carrara is if Daz Studio stepped up to the plate, and had built in full Sun / Sky & Atmosphere / Volumetric Cloud / Volumetric Fire / Terrain Generation features.
I dislike being confined to limited camera angles, building interiors, or having to find photographs for use as picturesque backgrounds. If/when I want that scenic Ocean scape, or rolling hills, or cratered valley, or mountains and messas, I can generate all that and more with vegitation to exactly the way I want and need in Carrara (So can Vue users).
There is that Terra Dome set for the Poser community at the other store, and probably / possibly works with Daz Studio, however it's still a limited use item based on the morphs provided to shape the terrain. Nor do I want to have a sloud/skyphoto for use, that untold others have used the exact same photo (sky dome image). I want my own volumetric clouds and atmospheric effects that I generate and have control over. Vue users will share the exact same sentiment.
Worse case, I can always bite the bullet and switch over to Vue if Carrara's nolonger a viable option, although I don't like working in Poser, so again thats a real headache to ponder... Its also really sad considering I've invested over 7yrs using and learning Carrara. Carrara is a love affair that I don't want to end or part ways with.
Joe wroteth
Fair enough Joe.
I think in a few of these threads we are working on the assumption that Daz doesn't look into our living rooms (or wherever we use our computers) and think "Oh he is using Carrara, or he is using Daz Studio".
Many of us have downloaded Daz Studio but never use it. Many people have Carrara and never use it. Many of us have Hex and Bryce but never use it. I have all these programs but of them I only use Carrara.
It follows that Daz doesn't really know at all how many people actually use their products, or what products they do use.
Use being the important term.
For Daz to look at ownership as proof of use is something that they would be stupid to do.
As they seem to have blinkers on as far as being able to construct an unbiased questionnaire as to what their user base is, then it is up to make them sit up and take notice with the tools we have available.
There's several ways of looking at the situation. I am taking the optimistic one.
Personally I don't care if Daz shoots themselves in the foot. It's just when they shoot me in the foot I take notice ;)
Sure I have Daz Studio, downloaded the latest iteration 4.8.x with iRay built in, and the Genesis 3 Starter Essentials ...
Studio for me is just a tool box , with a variety of tools I can use if/when needed to aide working with Genesis 1 & 2, so I can continue using Genesis 1 & 2 in Carrara.
If I need some Gen4 morph shapes for use with Genesis 2, I can load Studio, and use the Generation X plugin i bought to accomplish exactly that, then use such morphs in Carrara for a Genesis 2 character.
Of ir need be (Hadn't tried this yet ), export a morphed Generation 4 character I made in Carrara as an obj , import to Studio and somehow make it into a usable custom Genesis 2 character shape morph in 1 slider. (yeah I still have to figure that one out, as I have Gen4 characters I want to use and benefit from the Genesis2 joint bends improvements).
Theres also the Gen4 batch skin converters to Genesis 1 & 2, Skin converters form Gen 1 to 2, studio materials to .duf conversion plugins...
Prior to the past 2 Carrara updates, Carrara wouldn't load more than 2 peices of Clothing onto Genesis 2 for me, so I'd pre-morph and pre-fit clothing in Studio, save out as a scene-subset duf and import with ease into Carrara and continue working.
Like I said, my use of Daz Studio is purely a Genesis Toolbox app for me.
Yes that is exactly how I use studio
as my Genesis set up tool box for both Carrara and iClone.
Not supporting even animated textures unless using unweildy plugins let alone all Carrara's other features rules it out as anything more than a model photographic studio for me.
Iray and Octane DS even those additional texture, hair etc plugins fail.
Spmwc load those mostly AoA DAZ shaders on a figure in DS, hold ctl and apply DzDefault to all surfaces keeping maps and resave as a new preset.
Turn down highlight on all while you are at it for Carrara.
Carrara can't handle the HD figures / morphs.
Ticket submitted, but response was the same as what Chickenman received.
"Unfortunately, at this time; Genesis 3 content will not work in Carrara. I am going to consult with the developers, and will let you know what I find out."
But at least DAZ knows I am interested in Vicy7 if they make her compatible.
Otherwise it looks like the obj method for me.
Will wait and see what Creature morphs are released for her before I invest.
Regards, Bunyip
Of course you are also welcome to put in a ticket Joe. I am assuming that you still use Carrara ? Of course, some might say we should never make assumptions...
I am always a strong proponent of making your voice heard. That's how stuff happens.
But I also think it's obvious that DAZ knows exactly what direction they want to take the company, and they have far more information to base that decision on than we do. They are betting the future of their company on content and DAZ Studio. That's obvious. And they don't see that Carrara will be a strong player (ie, revenue generator) in that future.
I respect that decision. I'm sure they put a great deal of money and effort and worry into that decision. But they're probably right, and that's probably the best future for DAZ as a company.
So while it's good to make your voice heard, at some point you need to recognize you ain't gonna win.
I like Carrara, it's good for some stuff, and I use it for that stuff, but ultimately I'm not expecting it to improve or be developed in any meaningful way. So I've accepted that reality and won't waste time in stuff that won't be fruitful. But that's just me.
I think you could be right, Joe. Not 100% sure but it certainly seems to be heading that way. I will still use Carrara a lot in the months and years to come, I know it better than any other software and Octane Render has given it a new lease of life for me. But part of me still wants to be proved wrong...
I'm not saying it is perfect, although I don't think I have those particular outfits. I usually adjust shaders anyway, so the odd error with surfaces isn't going to phase me and can easily be got around. I wish that Carrara had the smoothing feature in DS which is very good, but I also have the Poke Away sets for Genesis and G2 which can be very helpful in sorting out some poke through issues. And as Tim_A pointed out, the HD sets don't work, but in my eyes the improvements are pretty marginal unless you are doing particular close-ups.
I just get a little tired with seeing "Genesis (2) doesn't work in Carrara" type posts, which is simply not true. For many uses, these figures work fine. I agree they are not 100% but they are probably 90-95% and I can live without the few points that are missing. And as a workaround, you can set up the figures in DS and import them as others have said.
I am always a strong proponent of making your voice heard. That's how stuff happens.
But I also think it's obvious that DAZ knows exactly what direction they want to take the company, and they have far more information to base that decision on than we do. They are betting the future of their company on content and DAZ Studio. That's obvious. And they don't see that Carrara will be a strong player (ie, revenue generator) in that future.
I respect that decision. I'm sure they put a great deal of money and effort and worry into that decision. But they're probably right, and that's probably the best future for DAZ as a company.
So while it's good to make your voice heard, at some point you need to recognize you ain't gonna win.
I like Carrara, it's good for some stuff, and I use it for that stuff, but ultimately I'm not expecting it to improve or be developed in any meaningful way. So I've accepted that reality and won't waste time in stuff that won't be fruitful. But that's just me.
I think you could be right, Joe. Not 100% sure but it certainly seems to be heading that way. I will still use Carrara a lot in the months and years to come, I know it better than any other software and Octane Render has given it a new lease of life for me. But part of me still wants to be proved wrong...
You might 'like' this then .... A quote from an interview ....
Quote
We also bought other software packages, such as Bryce, Carrara, and Hexagon. I kid you not that in every conversation we had before purchasing one of these software packages, someone would say "Do you want these to end up in the hands of Curious Labs?" So a portion of the benefit to the purchase was to not let Curious Labs (or whoever owned Poser at the time) get an advantage. Again, I get it. That's how business works; gain an advantage and try to keep it. But it also means keeping those packages developing, and putting money and resources into them to keep them viable. It was a big, big challenge to grow each one of those products.
chris creek
End quote
There's a lot more that I have not read
If DAZ 3D doesn't have the resources to continue the development of Carrara for what ever reason it maybe. It would be good for them to sell it off to some other company that can continue the development. They should have done it 3 years ago. The more time passes the less value Carrara has as new technology is out there and Carrara would have to play catchup.
The price of Carrara has drop so much that even the Victoria 7 Pro bundle cost almost as much as the entire software package.
Actually, with PC discount, V7Pro costs $1.13 MORE than C8.5 Pro! :-/
You go ahead and sit back, the world choose your path for you, accept what is offered without question, don't make waves...
I'll be over here forging my own path, and making my own choices. Any company ultimately works for it's customers, we're the ones paying for it all. If enough of us speak up, they will listen.
Dr Who would never have come back if the fans didn't keep pestering the BBC, and now it's one of their biggest franchises.
Sit back and do nothing is always a self-fulfilling prophecy: for sure you won't get a new version if you don't push for it. Daz did what was obviously the minimum they could get away with in 8.5.1, to achieve their aim of dumping support for Valentina. But it does show that they are willing to brush the dust off the programmer. If we can show them there's enough demand to make a proper upgrade worth their while, I'm sure they would consider it.
I like the image of a dusty old Carrara programmer just sitting in the corner, waiting to be dusted off and put to work!
I like the image of a dusty old Carrara programmer just sitting in the corner, waiting to be dusted off and put to work!
Needs an image :coolsmirk:
Needs an image :coolsmirk:
Next month's challenge?!
Needs an image :coolsmirk:
Next month's challenge?!
Sounds like a plan
Hehe :)
Just got back from seeing the Minions movie. kept thinking "nice textures..." :bug:
(has anyone joined the dots where these smiley guys come from . . .?)
I sort of get tired of spending hours trying to do something in Carrara only to be told by Daz "We don't support that figure" when I ask them about it. I get tired of the eyeballs sometimes not resizing in Carrara when I change the head morphs on Gen2. I get tired of clothes that work fine in neutral pose, but that no longer fit Gen 2 characters when the character is animated.
When Daz's response to me asking for help with their figures is to point me to the Carrara Wiki page and say I should have known Gen 2 characters are not fully supported then that makes me want to give up on Carrara. I'm glad 95% of the things you try to do with them in Carrara work for you. I find about 50% of the things I try to do don't work.
Boojum
Somehow you converted my statements saying it's good to make your voice heard as "accept what is offered without question, don't make waves". Not sure what translator you're using, but it ain't working.. :) :)
Here's my point. Not that anyone cares, but anyway...
Let's say that Acme Software Company has two software products, and Product A results in profits of $1.3 million per year, and Product B results in profits of only $126,000 per year (after paying expensive software developers to develop for an outdated and complicated product).
And let's say you are the CEO of Acme Software, and you have a lot of employees and investors creditors who are relying on a healthy income so the company doesn't go belly up. What would you do? Would you re-consider investing a lot of money in Product B, and focus more on Product A (which gives far more profit for each $$ spent)? Any halfway intelligent person would at least re-evaluate whether their investment $$ are being used wisely. And if they decide that Carrara isn't the best investment, then all the ground swells of opinion aren't going to change the numbers.
I'm sorry guys, but when it comes down to it, businesses are in business to make money. And they look for the best "return on investment". Which means they look for the best way to get more income for each $$ they spend.
That's my point. IF DAZ has decided that they get far more profits for each $$ invested in D|S and related content, then it makes sense to re-consider future development of Carrara and Hex and whatever else. If you have a software guy on staff who you're paying $100k per year, and you have a choice whether you'll tell him to work on a product which returns $10 for every $1 spent, or $2 for every $1 spent, it's a pretty easy decision.
My other point is something I've mentioned before. Optimism.
There's rational optimism, and irrational optimism. If DAZ is losing big money each year by supporting/developing Carrara then it's irrational optimism to expect they will continue to do that solely because a group of Carrara users started filing support tickets.
Rational optimism is realizing that Carrara is a fairly/very/totally stagnant product, and is decades behind the times, and would take many years just to bring it up to where its competitors are today in terms of features. And then realizing that maybe now is the time to look elsewhere, to different software, with those features Carrara doesn't provide, and just using Carrara for those strengths it has and finding ways to integrate Carrara's output with other software's output. Use the best of all worlds. That's rational, and that's optimism.
Einstein defined insanity as "Doing the same thing, over and over again, and expecting different results". :) :) :)
Oh, and somebody mentioned that DAZ should sell Carrara.... :) :)
Well, let me ask you....would YOU buy Carrara? Do you have any idea what it would take to make it a relevant and up-to-date and marketable product that rivals what is out there in the market? Making features in 3D apps is HUGELY complicated and expensive and time consuming. It takes YEARS to develop cloth, or fluids, or flames, or most of the other cool 3D features. And Carrara is decades behind the times. And you'd also have to find developers who can dissect and understand the code just to be able to start work on it.
It's a HUGE, insurmountable task, IMO. The investment would be incredible. And considering there are free apps out there that blow the shorts off Carrara, it's a HUGE risk to expect you will be able to charge enough for the complete product to justify it all.