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Question about Weight mapping Genesis 3

PendraiaPendraia Posts: 3,598
edited December 1969 in Daz Studio Discussion

Hi, I hope this can be answered by someone.

I understand that the weight mapping on Genesis 3 is dual quaternion based.

Does that mean it's exactly the same as the dual quaternion mapping in Blender, Maya and Max?

If so does that mean that you can rig in any of those programs and have it work in DS and vice versa, rig in DS and have it work in them?

Sorry if this is a silly question...just trying to get my head around the new mapping and what it actually means in practice.

Comments

  • mjc1016mjc1016 Posts: 15,001
    edited December 1969

    Yes, it means the same.

    But what does it mean in terms of bringing stuff into DS?

    G3F does bend and move in Blender...haven't tried any morphs or anything fancy, but she comes in with a working rig.

  • PendraiaPendraia Posts: 3,598
    edited December 1969

    mjc1016 said:
    Yes, it means the same.

    But what does it mean in terms of bringing stuff into DS?

    G3F does bend and move in Blender...haven't tried any morphs or anything fancy, but she comes in with a working rig.

    Does this mean that if someone is more comfortable with rigging in blender(for example) that they could rig the clothing there and use it in DS?

    and

    Does it mean that if Poser had access to this type of rigging that Genesis 3 would work in it with no dramas?

    Nice to know that the rig works in Blender because that implies the answer might be yes at least to the first question...

    I notice that it still only mentions converting to triax or blended in the menu on the scene tab...?

    I'm assuming that when you use the transfer utility with Genesis 3 the rigging on the clothing is dual quaternion?

    It certainly looks different to the standard triax when you look at in the node weight map area...there's no rotations just something called general weights.

  • kitakoredazkitakoredaz Posts: 3,526
    edited June 2015

    http://www.daz3d.com/forums/discussion/58016/

    I hope so. it means if,,, we could rig figure with weigth map, in blender.
    and export it to daz stuido.

    but have not succeed. never.

    try with collada, or blender FBX , it never keep rig and mesh as same as blender amatrure .

    I hope to ask, if someone make daz fgiure with rigging in other aprication,(eg modo or cinema 4d etc)
    then could export it to daz stuido by FBX or etc,,
    after that,, he ccould save the figure,, as new daz general weight (or triax) figure.
    (dson compatible, figure.dsf)

    that means, we may not need to rig or weight in daz stuido, but we can make daz compatible
    general weight figure (with dobule quartanion defomation)

    but can not believe, untill someone show the real case as prodcut.

    then I hope to know, what daz means dual quartanion about new figure clear too.
    when it change as dual quartanion? I have seen daz general weight , in node weight map.
    but never seen rigging product colored by daz general weight before.
    and I have never seen any document which guide daz general weight .

    then now daz say g3female is dual quartanion figure with general weight.
    is there option we can change to dual quartanion?
    if I color general weight = it can deform as dual quartanion auto?

    I know,, dual quartanion is not new technology at all.
    but I do not know what is difference from daz general weighted figure.

    Post edited by kitakoredaz on
  • PendraiaPendraia Posts: 3,598
    edited December 1969

    kitakoredaz said:
    http://www.daz3d.com/forums/discussion/58016/

    I hope so. it means if,,, we could rig figure with weigth map, in blender.
    and export it to daz stuido.

    but have not succeed. never.

    try with collada, or blender FBX , it never keep rig and mesh as same as blender amatrure .

    I hope to ask, if someone make daz fgiure with rigging in other aprication,(eg modo or cinema 4d etc)
    then could export it to daz stuido by FBX or etc,,
    after that,, he ccould save the figure,, as new daz general weight (or triax) figure.
    (dson compatible, figure.dsf)

    that means, we may not need to rig or weight in daz stuido, but we can make daz compatible
    general weight figure (with dobule quartanion defomation)

    but can not believe, untill someone show the real case as prodcut.

    then I hope to know, what daz means dual quartanion about new figure clear too.
    when it change as dual quartanion? I have seen daz general weight , in node weight map.
    but never seen rigging product colored by daz general weight before.
    and I have never seen any document which guide daz general weight .

    then now daz say g3female is dual quartanion figure with general weight.
    is there option we can change to dual quartanion?
    if I color general weight = it can deform as dual quartanion auto?

    I know,, dual quartanion is not new technology at all.
    but I do not know what is difference from daz general weighted figure.

    Thanks for the link to the thread...it is definitely looking promising. I don't know enough about Blender to attempt converting between the two programs so I will have to wait and see what others manage to do. It would be great to have more info from Daz on how it can be used...
  • a-sennova-sennov Posts: 331
    edited December 1969

    Actually I don't understand why would one want to rig clothing to be used in Studio on DAZ figures in Blender. Studio has transfer utility, joint editor and weight map painter - more than enough for clothing rigging. And for me all of it is much more convienient and focused on the task than in Blender.

    All of this make sense when you export figure to Blender for animation, but in this case it will stay in Blender and clothes will stay in Blender too so again no need to bring them into Studio.

  • PendraiaPendraia Posts: 3,598
    edited December 1969

    a-sennov said:
    Actually I don't understand why would one want to rig clothing to be used in Studio on DAZ figures in Blender. Studio has transfer utility, joint editor and weight map painter - more than enough for clothing rigging. And for me all of it is much more convienient and focused on the task than in Blender.

    All of this make sense when you export figure to Blender for animation, but in this case it will stay in Blender and clothes will stay in Blender too so again no need to bring them into Studio.

    Not everyone uses DS for rendering but even if they do it could be useful. If someone already knows how to rig in Blender(or another program that uses dual quaternions) it saves them having to learn to do it in DS if they don't already know how. For me the conversation is about portability between programs and having more options more than anything and a desire to understand how the new mapping will impact on people creating things for Genesis 3. I wanted to know what was feasible...

  • DigiDotzDigiDotz Posts: 515
    edited December 1969

    being able to bring rigged figures from blender would be awsome, Low poly figures, make-human, mixamo figures all easy to rig in Blender, I cant get into daz rigging much, I got tutorials from Blondie and others but still find the weight mapping bit a total pain in Daz,

    Blender Weight painting seems much easier

  • mjc1016mjc1016 Posts: 15,001
    edited December 1969

    After a bit of playing around...

    There are still problems with bringing rigged figures in.

    I can get a real nice figure, imported, looking good (no exploded meshes, no wild rotations, etc)...with the rig, which, if I select a bone, I can pose...except the rig is not connected to the mesh.

    This is using the Collada import with a different Blender Collada exporter (Godot Better Collada Exporter http://www.godotengine.org/wp/better-collada-exporter/). And the FBX import, at least with model I'm playing with isn't exploded, either, but also has the disconnected rig.

    Which pretty much seems to be the same as before.

    Also bringing G3F back in...same thing.

  • Richard HaseltineRichard Haseltine Posts: 102,730
    edited December 1969

    Although G3 is the first DAZ figure to use general Weight mapping with Dual Quaternions, they aren't new features for DS. Please report the import issues, perhaps pointing out why they are more relevant now.

  • mjc1016mjc1016 Posts: 15,001
    edited December 1969

    That sounds like a plan...because it's 'almost there'.

    I do have to say, other than the EyeMoisture and Cornea coming into Blender not being transparent (but that's a simple fix...just actually turn transparency on for those two surfaces, in Blender), Collada export to Blender brings a fully rigged and textured model to the table.

  • PendraiaPendraia Posts: 3,598
    edited December 1969

    mjc1016 said:
    That sounds like a plan...because it's 'almost there'.

    I do have to say, other than the EyeMoisture and Cornea coming into Blender not being transparent (but that's a simple fix...just actually turn transparency on for those two surfaces, in Blender), Collada export to Blender brings a fully rigged and textured model to the table.

    that's good news...I'm with Richard on the bug report. It would be great to have it working both ways.

  • AlienRendersAlienRenders Posts: 793
    edited December 1969

    I find the weight map painter in Daz to be horrendous. Is there a way to do the weight maps in another application and import them? I know that when I export G2F, it exports a single weight map. I think internally, it uses one weight map for each axis. But I'm not sure on this. Anyone know?

  • PendraiaPendraia Posts: 3,598
    edited December 1969

    AlienRenders said:
    I find the weight map painter in Daz to be horrendous. Is there a way to do the weight maps in another application and import them? I know that when I export G2F, it exports a single weight map. I think internally, it uses one weight map for each axis. But I'm not sure on this. Anyone know?

    Hey AlienRenders, that's what we are trying to find out and why we were concerned that the import into DS wasn't as good as the export out of DS.

    The weight map painter in DS has had symmetry broken for a long time. Haven't tried it in the latest version so I don't know if it's working now though.

  • kitakoredazkitakoredaz Posts: 3,526
    edited December 1969

    Yes. as for me, last night I just tweaking and re-rig old clothing for gen3female.

    I think it is not difficult just adjust weight map which mostly transfered weight,
    and now we need only one general weight.

    but after I add some ghost bone, then start adjusting weight map, I rotate view, hide poligon etc,,
    again rotate,,, suddenly freeze cursor, then I need to re-boot PC.
    :down:
    when I edit rig, or weight, I often change view . (you must do it, I believe)to check all.

    I try again,, but about same point,, cursor stop , then freeze again.
    only what I can do is, just shut down my PC. no key access denied, my pc start crying.
    even though I wait , cursor should freeze everytime. I can not find any discribe in log file too.

    I do not plan to send report what I did all, but after that, ds always crash when I open the clothing.duf
    I test 5 or 6 times, but I can not find what is problem at all. check dsf , duf too.
    (which just add ghost bone, after auto fit, save it as figure, first, then transfer morph,,)

    finally I use view tool. by changing tool setting pane
    (you know,, if you use view port tool, to change view,, it means,, you can not use joint editor, or
    weight map tool at same time.)

    but after all, I rotate view quick,, cursor freeze ,,,,

    about DS, I often find these un-expected cursh when I tweak figure rig and weight.

    I keep video driver as recent, change mouse, serch google, "when cursol freeze" etc,
    but it only happen about ds,.. I do not lost my time any more just to re- wieight about old clothing.
    (it is transfered from V4 to genesis to genesis2female, then I hoped to use it, to check general weight,
    and ghost bone how work,,)

    maybe next version ds remove this problem or not.. but I do not know.

    even though I send report, untill suport check each file, and confirm there is problem,,
    it may take long time to solve it.

    then I know ds is at current free, and improve many time, but not stable for me.at least about rigging .

  • PendraiaPendraia Posts: 3,598
    edited December 1969

    So I'm attempting to weight map some clothing for genesis 3 using the transfer utility.

    Can someone explain why the skirt I modelled is shrinking when it is weightmapped using the dress knee length template?

    Images before weight mapping

    After weightmapping

    smoothing added

    Both together

    I would really like to understand why this happens...

    weightmapped_and_unweightmapped_in_same_scene.png
    1000 x 1500 - 962K
    skirt_after_weightmapviatu_with_smoothing.png
    1000 x 1500 - 909K
    skirt_after_weightmapviatu.png
    1000 x 1500 - 855K
    skirt_before_weightmapviatu.png
    1000 x 1500 - 874K
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