Daz Iray and Domes and HDRIs?
So is there a handy explanation for how Daz 4.8 Iray utilizes domes and HDRI's and so forth?
In Render Setting>Environment>Dome is this really referring to a Skydome or something else?
What I used to know as a dome can now block light from the set, so are Skydomes still usable?
HDRI's apparently are "domes" that emit light according to the random pattern and colors of the chosen image - which can be visible or inviside - so is this akin to a Skydome? And are these lighting effect only visible outside? If your character is in a room the effects will be blocked by the walls of that room?
And finally I selected a background cyclorama style image in one set and appled the Iray Emmisive shader to it…thinking it might work akin to an HDRI (emitting light)…but the image on the surface vanished and turns to white. Is there a way to make something an emitter and keep the photo map on its surface?
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First off, you can use a geometry based dome...IF...you set it to be an emitter, turn off the Iray dome and do a bunch of levels fiddling...in other words, a lot of work to recreate an inbuilt feature of the renderer. So, technically, yes, but for the amount of work involved, is it worth it?
The Iray dome, in all respects, is the 'world'. So plugging an HDR image into it sets the 'world' to that image. It can be an 'infinite' or a 'finite' dome...for an infinite dome, expansive panoramas, open skies, etc. work great. For a finite dome...city streets, enclosed spaces, etc..
Yes, if you have a room with walls/ceiling/etc the dome will light the 'outside'...just like real life. Doors, windows and other openings will let that light in. A finite dome, of a 'studio' or 'room' can be used...if there aren't walls in the way.
To do something like a cyclorama as an emitter will take a lot of playing around with the levels to prevent 'washout'. And you need to place the image in more than just the diffuse channel...
Thanks. I've seen some tutorial where the Iray "dome" magically appears in the render though you can't see it in the view pane. I deleted the old geometric sky dome, but I don't see anything out the window when I render. Not even a plane blue sky. So how can I "see" the sky in a project before rendering it? Is it a matter of picking "sun and sky" or "dome" in the environment pane? Or selecting the right HDRI in that panel?
You can't see the Iray environment dome before you render - it just doesn't show up until then. If you're still not seeing it once you've rendered then make sure you have either "Dome and Scene" "Dome Only" or "Sun-Sky" modes selected and make sure that the 'Draw Dome' box is set to 'On'.
Also, bear in mind that if you're looking right at the sun on the Iray dome when you render then the chances are that the sky will just appear white.
If you're doing an indoor scene with sunlight from the dome outside, then I'd say your best bet is the "Dome and Scene" mode so that your interior lights will render as well.
Thanks. I'm using Dome and Scene and the Draw Dome is set to on, but I see nothing out the windows.
It looks to me like you have an HDR loaded into the environment map and its all blurred. Have you tried removing the image in the environment map?
I assume you are using some sort of 'space' map...if it isn't a true high dynamic range image, it's probably not going to have enough 'range' to actually make enough 'light' to be seen over the lighting in the 'room'.
Also, you need to make sure your windows are set up properly, material-wise.
@dkutzera "Mode set to Dome and Scene. Set to Finite Sphere. Draw Dome On. Visualize Finite Dome on. Enviro Intensity at 1. And the stock Ruins 500 HDR loaded. and still no sky out the window.
Are all "sky domes" in Iray these invisible HDRI's?"
Hi dkutzera - I think you posted in the wrong thread by accident, but I know what you're talking about so its ok :)
The Ruins 500 HDR is for lighting only - its not meant for image. Thats why you're getting a blurred image on the dome. Remove it from the environment map and you should see blue sky instead.
Thanks for the suggestions.
Just how are we supposed to know which HDR are for lighting and which result in an actual dome?
And when I remove the HDR in the scene I winds up with a straight line (horizon?) outside the window. Above is white and below is gray. No side of blue anywhere.
There is no simple way to see which HDRis are going to be blurred/sharp, if your OS doesn't have the HDR support to view them as thumbnails, in the file manager.
But one general rule of thumb can help...file size. Small resolution/file size images will be lighting only. Large size (5000k x 2500k resolution and up...6k, 8k and even 15k) with a corresponding large files size (10s of MB...usually over 40MB) will be both usable for lighting AND as backdrops. Often though, there aren't corresponding HDR images for use as backdrops in many 'sets'...they substitute a small HDR image and a higher resolution jpg/png/other low range format image for the one large HDR image.
The grey is the Iray dome ground and the line is indeed the horizon. The white is the sky - its probably white due to your sun settings. You're probably looking right at the sun. Try changing the Latitude, Longitude, SS Time etc that sort of thing.
As far as HDRs go, I am no expert so I'd rather not fill your head with advice that might not be correct. What I've been told is that some HDR sets contain files only useful for lighting, whilst others are the complete deal with images for the background too. Determining which is which is an art I haven't yet mastered :)
Where do you find Latitude, Longitude at? I know it's one of those things where if one button in one area isn't clicked then those other buttons won't show up. I'm in Enviro…Dome…Sun-Sky…Sun…and only see
SS Sun Disk Intensity
SS Sun Disk Scale
SS SUn Glow INtensity
SS Physically Scalled Sun
Its under Enviro…Dome…Sun-Sky…Direction... (not sun)
The grey is the Iray dome ground and the line is indeed the horizon. The white is the sky - its probably white due to your sun settings. You're probably looking right at the sun. Try changing the Latitude, Longitude, SS Time etc that sort of thing.
As far as HDRs go, I am no expert so I'd rather not fill your head with advice that might not be correct. What I've been told is that some HDR sets contain files only useful for lighting, whilst others are the complete deal with images for the background too. Determining which is which is an art I haven't yet mastered :)
It's actually pretty simple...
(when one dimension is specified, assume it is image width, proper hdr panoramas are 2:1; w=2h)
A set that only has a 'small' (under 2k x 1k) hdr image will almost always be 'lighting' only. It's not really usable for reflections, unless blurred reflections are fine. It's definitely not usable as a 'scene element'/backdrop. Often as a set, it will come with one or more higher resolution low range maps...typically jpg images, of the same exact thing. These can be 'reflection maps'/backdrops.\
Mid-sized images, in the 2 to 4k may be usable for 'distant' backgrounds or if they are something like 'studio' or 'tight' cityscapes, but generally are for lighting/reflections.
Large size 5k+ are generally usable for lighting, reflections and backdrops...all at once (only need a single map).
These are just general guides. The best way is to install an image viewer that has hdr support
There are a couple of HDR image programs in the link in my sig...and a pretty good general image viewer that has at least read capabilities for hdr/exr formats is
http://www.irfanview.com/
Thanks. The files size tip is a give away. I will have to climb up this steep HDRI learning curse. Part of that is simply finding the images and then learning how to download them (without DIM I assume) in such a way that Daz will locate and import them.
And the sun settings aren't visible perhaps because I'm using the sun-dial gizmo. It may be that when that is in a scene it shuts off the other controls.
There is no 'locate and import' them...they are raw images and need to be manually plugged in. THEN you can save them as a preset...that's why I recommend setting up a folder in your Runtime/Textures folder to house them. By putting them into a folder in the Studio content structure, it makes it easy to keep track of them and less likely the presets made will break...plus, most of them can't be shared, but presets made for them, if you direct folks to the download links for each one, can be shared, if a 'sane' directory structure is maintained.
Thanks. I was able to find an image on my drive that was big enough and got that installed…so now there is a sky outside. Thanks for all the help. Great idea to set up a file in Texture.
So I read through this thread, and decided to go find some HDR Images, and try my hand at a scene or 3. I found quite a few free images, and settled on an interior scene. It's a small room in a house (somewhere in Poland, I think...)
I set the image as the environment map in render settings, set the environment mode to dome only, dome mode: finite sphere, and draw dome to on.
I dropped in Victoria 4 with no Iray adjustments, and no other lights at all; just the HDRI for lighhting. Then I panned around the model with the camera and took 5-6 shots from different angles around the room.
I think this is amazingly cool! Each render took less than 5 minutes. I'm sure settings could be tweaked to make it better, but this is pretty nice for a thrown together scene.
EDIT: to reattach photos
Here are 3 more...
hmm..seems they are out of order. I think the last one should be number 2...but whatever...
EDIT: reattached photos, and put in correct order around the room (hopefully...)
Hmmm...what happened to the attached images I posted here?
There was an error made by an admin and images were lost. Edit your post and re-attach them.
Not a Mod admin a DAZ_Admin
See post here http://www.daz3d.com/forums/discussion/59118/image-attachments-fix-and-error
Ok..thx!
"D"
I tried an outdoor scene using an HDR Image.
Looks amazingly realistic..like she's actually standing there.
The lighting seems correct...dim shadows, correct shading.
I like!
That parking lot is one of my 'workhorse' HDRIs. It is decent, not perfect, but renders nicely and has great reflections, for cars and stuff. Doesn't do too bad with people, either.
I assume you can't do any camera moves for animation in such an HDRI environment? Or can you?
I haven't done any Iray animation, so I don't know for sure...but there is no reason why you shouldn't be able to move the camera around. After all, HDRI lighting is one of the more common techniques in movie production (often they make the HDRIs from the set/location so the added CG stuff 'fits' right in).
What I need then is a way to make HDRI's from Daz Scenes so that I could just render the background once and then insert the foreground characters on a separate layer. Save on rendering time.
Why?
It doesn't take much, if any more time to render with the dome on as it does off...the draw dome on/off switch is what would give you the the HDRI as a backdrop or no backdrop. The lighting calculations are done either way and that's what would take the time anyway.
Think of it this way...it would probably take less time to render with the 'backdrop' on than it would to render it off and then composite everything later.
I was meaning the difference between rendering a character within a model of a room vs a character in a HDRI "dome" of that room. I'd assume it would be faster to render the HDRI image than a full model. I was also thinking it would be faster to render one frame of that image as a background plate than rendering it for every frame. Of course it depends on how the shot is composed and what the movement is.