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I would agree with the above, but add that if you want the flexibility to make a bodypart overweight, muscular, or emaciated, then it might need more polygons than the same bodypart in 'normal' condition. I guess that falls under "(1) The even grid makes it easier to completely reshape the base figure."
If somone want extra topology to represent muscles for a muscular character, then there is an equal case for adding topology for fat masses for overweight characters and topology for bone definition for emaciated characters.
Yes.
OK, even grid is more versatile and specialised grid is more efficient. I think I get that, but
In terms of geometry, a G9 at subD 3 will take up (very roughly) as much space while renderng as a G8 at subD 2?
How? I thought G9 had denser mesh (= more geometry?) than G8.
G8 and G9 do not match up exactly. For example, the mouth and eyes split from base mesh. Not sure if that is what is being referred to.
It is a good point to distinguish the computer resources used by the model mesh from the resources used by the textures applied to a model mesh. Technically, I can apply an 4,000 by 4,000 map to a simple 6-polygon cube and it will use more resources than my custom made toon horse model with a simple low res texture applied.
Th G9 model mesh will tend to be more efficient than G8 by splitting out the teeth, etc from the base mesh so the teeth need not be subdivided when the rest of the model is. On the other hand, G9 relies on more detailed textures and subdivision for a number of details (the nipple and navel issue).
Trade-offs again.
@Diomede Again nice examples and explanation.
@Hylas Subdivision is relative to the base mesh, in that it subdivides the base mesh. For a human figure, if you have a good topology the mesh will be already dense where needed because of the topology so you have to subdivide less. That's what I mean.
A dense figure without topology is good for a general shape, for example if you want to sculpt an outfit on the figure. This is common in video games where they use a single mesh with a single texture and in that case a HD based figure makes sense. In daz studio with genesis it doesn't, at all.
I just saw these in the gallery,...competition for G9 you think?
I'm more interested in making my own images rather than having the computer do it for me ;). I did try AI and it's weird and quirky, but I got bored with it pretty fast...
Competition in what way exactly? It's just a face swap via AI that you can do with a free mobile app in 2 seconds. You could actually probably get better result swapping faces using photoshop and some manual attention to detail, on the artists page all of them are terrible resolution if you look at each of them closely.
I'm never gonna understand why people get so mesmerized by this, it's just lazy work and requires no artistic skill.
I think it's fascinating and controversial technology that can be used for good, ill, and everything in between... and is unrelated to the G9 discussion.
I do not want to turn this in a pure AI conversation, as there is another thread about that subject, but I do wonder if it can be seen as competitive with G9 as it are both current Gen technologies.
I do not have interest in using AI myself in the way is done above, I think using another persons likeness is morally grey at the least (unless your practicing sculpting/drawing or something like that) especially considering how some Daz users would use that likeness, and the satisfaction of getting the light just right is one of the things I enjoy the most.
No, as you can efficiently do only portrait shots with that technique, while G3/8/9 and be used for continual pictures, as needed for different tasks... Games, Comics, Animated Stories etc. Good luck using your described method for any of these without spending way more time than needed. That's all that I will post concerning anything AI in this thread, which isn't made to discuss about AI.
I was thinking the same thing. I spent more time installing Stable Diffusion than playing with it to see what it could do. Maybe it is my Attention Deficiency but I quickly became bored with the results the AI was producing. Much more fun to make and render my own characters.
LOL, You got farther than me, I don't see this as a replacement for analogue artists, so while I'm not threatened by it, I do not care to use it for my work as the tech is right now…
OT: There's an issue that I have with G9, and the cast/self shadows cause some serious aliasing unless you bump up the division, thank F I have a 3090, as that 24Gb is worth its weight in gold!
Well oranges haven't replaced apples, so the answer is no, they are different mediums and not mutually exclusive. Proper question that drives this thread is is Genesis 9 replacing Genesis 8 in the terms of customer interest, and that's what this thread is about. In the manner of software, Daz hasn't replaced other 3D softwares, it has found its customer base somewhere between modeling and rendering, and so will AI when it finds its feet and its purpose and place in the ether, with all proper regulations and refinements that are yet to follow.
It is true that the portion of Daz artists are those interested only in the result and AI is new and shiny and attracting attention, but many still appreciate the 3D journey as well, to learn and understand the concept of it, to give it a breath of personality unique to human idea, rather than gluing randomized things together hoping they don't fall apart, which a lot of AI does at the moment.
May get on the train eventually, but as things are now no. I just don't see the point unless Daz actually releases models for G9 (clothing for example) that are actually realistic. I think it's time to have normal outfits around especially for history periods. So, no 10 inch heels or more exposed then covered outfits. That's my degree in desing of clothing talking through, so don't come after me lol
i'm sure there are PAs who have the ability but is it gonna be worth the extra effort?... especially when most customers have less to spend.
I resize all the time too, really saves on vram. As for JPEG saving more space at the same size, that would be because of image bit depth. Jpeg are limited to 24bit where as TIFF and PNG can up up to 64bit. And I have seen 4K PNG that are 64bit take up way more vram then a 24bit version.
Ahh k I never knew about the bit depth difference between the three file types thank you for the info.
The only time I want to use PNG or TIFF is when I need to add a texture that goes over the top of another such as liquid stains. But yeah the difference I have had with resizing texture files, and when I can make them jpg I have been able to knock off quite a bit of vram usage.
Here we go: Great for portraits, like Meta Humans and Victoria 4, but not that great for posing and animations as someone here before just nailed it.
For a quality model I dare say it would be more than worth the extra effort. I got a figure bundle for G9 that comes in two genders for 30 dollars over at sharecg. Everything is high quality,from morphs to the materials, so if they did it I'd be the first to throw the money at PA, because realistic period pieces is something we need. Then again, I suppose many go after what sells well and outfits with heels in which your character is likely to break an ankle as she does her job is popular among buyers.
I think time will solve many of the perceived difficulties with G9. Or possibly in a year, we'll get G10 and the cycle will start again. There are historical precedents for either outcome.
This is true, and why I don't early adopt anymore.
...well as I feared pretty much al the new releases cheracter/clothing/pose wise are now for G9 save for a couple G8/G9 ones.
I'm just speculating, but I think PAs are given incentive to drop the old like a hot potato.
I like Mike 9...
lol!
I'm sure it's the customers that give the PA's a huge incentive to drop G8/8.1 like a hot potato. My guess, which is also speculation, is that PA's have a choice Option 1- release stuff for G8/8.1 and have lack luster sales numbers (selling mostly to the minority who aren't jumping on the G9 train), or Option 2 - release stuff for G9 and have good sales numbers because most customers are are eager to get stuff designed for the new figure (that's the way it's been for the last 20 years, no reason for it to suddenly change now).
I feel sorry for the PA's that are releasing new G8/8.1 content because I'm pretty sure the sales are not what they would have been before the release of G9.
What little new character stuff I've been buying from the Daz Store has been for G8/8.1.
So far, all I've got from the G9 lineup is V9(pre-purchase), starter essentials, and essential shapes. Not to forget the free items that were included in those packages.
I don't really like V9's looks and shape. So I've not used her much. Actually only 1 scene, and a couple times to look at some feature I read about here on the forums. Her skin and eyes look good though.
I've not seen anything for G9 that I like.
None of the characters are attractive or interesting to me, and none of the clothes/pose sets appeal to me either.
I'm actually starting to think I'm not the target audience for this G9 figure series anyway.
G10 isn't out yet, so I guess I'll wait and see if G9 has anything for me or not.
So far, it's been a big nothing, and that's not what I was hoping for.
...I'm still disappointed that happened with G3. G8 was around for twice as long.
I skipped right over G3 myself. Everything about it felt like a huge downgrade from what came before.