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I'm going to chime in for a second about G8 characters getting released means that G9 is not selling. That is not correct - how many people here say they only want G8 and then when vendors oblige its seen as meaning G9 is struggling lol ... at this point in time G9 is outperforming G8 at the same point of its lifetime as well as with current sales. No matter what Daz says about it some people refuse to believe - but its been like that with every new generation. It takes time to create for figures, and its up to the vendors on which one they support.
I would be more active around here but the nature of my work being the "adult" kind... well.. kinda difficult, heh. Of course, everything I make doesn't have to be full on "adult" sfuff, but going by the overall feeling I've had the times I've tried to be more active I think I'd probably get annoying comments about the figures proportions and whatnot. Having said that, I actually wanted to participate in the Lawrence 9/Kiri 9 challenge contest but I just didn't have the time. Since csaa mentioned it I'll probably try and see how is it around the Daz Plus forums.
The thing about it always been the same with each figure release, meeting resistance and whatnot, is the same thing I've been saying. Heck, I read plenty of people complaining about G8 even though they could keep using G3 textures, plenty of people saying they would stay at G3 and so on, but it's still nice to get confirmation from long time PAs like Mada
I started with Poser in 2004 and switched to the Daz Studio world, when Poser stopped moving forward.
I really loved V4/M4, but couldn't find benefits in the Genesis characters first. This changed with Genesis 3, which looked great to me. I still wonder, why V7/M7 had to use a different UV layout. I didn't see the benefit.
Regarding G8, I was a bit sceptical at first, but started to get into it, especially as I could transfer G3 skins and morphs to G8. G8.1 provided a better support for facial expressions in the first place, but changes in the UV layout were a kind of drawback. Still I use G8 and G8.1 on a regular base now. Besides Daz Studio, I use them more often in Blender.
G9 is very different regarding the mesh concept and I still do not see the benefit of the unisex figure. We have new UV layout and morphs, but I still don't see how this will provide better characters to me in my workflow. I have to admit that the renders of G9 look good, but this may be achieved with G8 as well. So, I will be looking at the further development of G9 and what comes next. Maybe I'll jump on the train later...
Working on it... pretty pleased with the set I'm finishing up right now
I started playing with Daz Studio when G3 was new and there was still a strong G2 user base. I too remember the excitement surrounding the release of every new G3 core character. Each one seemed to bring something new and expand peoples' ideas about what they could render.
Now, the reaction seems to be more "meh". Maybe we've reached that stage where the previous generation is simply viewed as good enough for most purposes, and it's not worth the effort to switch to a new one.
Hopefully I'm not viewing the past through rose-tinted glasses. ;-)
I fully admit I'm not terribly good at producing images. I enjoy doing it though. My main images are more distance type images, where the portrait image benefits of G9 don't show up well and the somewhat less good noodle bends do become visible.
Unfortunately, to my view, only one G9 character has come in as a character I want. The rest are a bit 'meh' for my purposes, I'm not really inspired by them. I must admit, V3 based characters can meet a fair proportion of my character requirements; Shame about the bends, lack of clothing & characters, but.. it does almost enough for my needs. Like I said, I'm not good at producing images and as a result I can't stretch the boundaries of what G8 can do. G9. Hmm. I think G9 needs more user skill to get G8 quality images and needs additional skill to get the best from G9. I cannot claim to be remotely in that league.
I do hear the benefits of G9 being extolled for PA's in terms of wider applicability of clothing etc due to the common male/female base. That may be the case, but as a user, I have yet to have the benefits demonstrated to me of G9. My experience of real life is that it's rare for men to wear skirts, dresses, negligee's or fetching little tanga knickers, and male clothing frequently looks wrong on women because the body shape is very different, so the cut is different and it hangs differently. This experiece is as valid in DS as it is in real life. I honestly can't see how the combined base benefits users much in terms of cross dressing because clothes cuts are different. Commonality of textures doesn't seem to work well either. Shading on the body is different, and beard shadow on a petite woman looks.. peculiar, so having a common texture doesn't seem to help. Men's skin is often rougher, putting that on a female looks wrong. As a user, how does that benefit my making nice images? It doesn't really. No, I'll rephrase. It really doesn't.
So, let's assume the common base benefits PA's more than users by enhancing the character and clothing generation process.
I work in a manufacturing industry. When we develop a new process, that helps us do things faster, better & cheaper (it does happen every now & again, just not as often as we'd wish!), we look at our pricing and basically share the benefit of the new process between us & our customers. That way we sell more product and make more money than if we raise the price for the better product or keep the price the same. It works out that by sharing the saving, we get more money than if we didn't, because of increased sales. Better product + lower price = disproportionately more sales.
I know it's dodgy to compare between industries, but summat's a bit odd. There are, apparently, savings for the PA's in hours and therefore cost when making characters and clothing. The shop prices of the goods have gone up, and we're told sales have increased. Something doesn't sound quite right. That's not often how economics work. It does in some luxury goods, but it's rare that the price demand curve is not inversely proportional. I am unconvinced because what I'm being told doesn't agree with previous experience, but there could be other factors coming in to play I haven't been considering 'til now. It is possible that the supply of G9 characters and clothing from third party vendors is not as great as with previous base figures, while the demand for the 'new, latest, up-to-date' character is still there, and consumers are buying from the DAZ store.instead of their previous suppliers. That might make up for the disconnect in what I see.
So, I'd like to be convinced by G9, but I cannot be convinced by what I've seen so far.
Regards,
Richard
Inflation is a killer. My electric bill is double. My gas bill is double. Food, lets not even talk about it. It's a sign of the times and the majority of us are living paycheck to paycheck. Trust me, we aren't millionaires asking you for a dollar or two more.
Genesis 3 and Iray have been my reasons to switch from Poser to DAZStudio. Genesis 9 feels like falling back to Genesis (1).
I'm well aware of that. If anything I'd like you to be making pots of money & have a significant financial incentive to add to your creative incentive to make more items.
I'm just a bit confused by the situation. I freely admit that I'm not in a software/digital content industry and things can be quite different in different industries, instead making something as exciting and inspiring as boxes. But it does seem contrary to my experience - which is in the last year we saved 20% on our prices with a manufacturing improvement and material substitution, dropped prices last August by 10% and then this April lifted by 7% for inflation and.. we have more sales and more profit yet have a [slightly] cheaper product than last year despite massive utility cost hikes (we are in an energy intensive business, and it has hurt us too).
Regards,
Richard.
One thing that makes me sad is that most of the G9 clothes are clearly for G9 feminine and nowhere androgynous enough for G9 masculine, which almost kills the claim that clothes can be shared across multiple genders. I know PAs have to create what sells to pay their bills, but at least I want to rant a little bit.
So far the major benefit of G9's multi gender base to me is that boys can use girls' makeup without the problem of different UVs.
Yes, people seem to forget we are people too with the same problems except we have added costs to produce content that is ongoing now that we are pretty much forced to go to subscriptions on every program we use. Most people also aren't dropping $5000-$10,000 a year in just operating expenses, but we are to be able to make content and stay current with the apps and equipment needed for it.
It is most difficult to deal with inflation. As a buyer, and on fixed income, the rising prices are really creating a necessry slow down of purchases. Now I'm pretty much forced to wait until something is on discount, and fairly deep discount at that. That only reduces the income for the PAs. I'm sure there are many of us here in DAZland.
Things I like about Unisex base:
Easier to make relatives across genders.
Male outfits on female characters.
Uniforms can be unisex, and you don't have to wait around hoping there's a version made for the other gender or to wrangle with autofit or conversion.
Female skins often make for good youthful masculine characters (or otherwise particularly smooth-skinned characters).
Masculine poses for feminine characters. I don't often want pinup shots of feminine characters, and having either more every day or action poses for them is such a relief.
For monsters or aliens or otherwise odd characters, I have a lot more 'room' to reimagine. Do I want to give the demon breasts and put her in a slinky red dress? Maybe!
And with all of it, again, you don't have to wait and hope the market is viable enough for content to be made for both genders.
Like I said, maybe I'm missing something. Here is G8F, no morphs, just straight, with a set of G9 clothing. I used autofit and this is the result. This is what I get. Now, it appears the default pose is wrong for G8 maybe to accept the G9 clothing? I put a bra on afterwards so the render wouldn;t get bounced.
"it does seem contrary to my experience - which is in the last year we saved 20% on our prices with a manufacturing improvement and material substitution, dropped prices last August by 10% and then this April lifted by 7% for inflation and.. we have more sales and more profit yet have a [slightly] cheaper product than last year despite massive utility cost hikes (we are in an energy intensive business, and it has hurt us too)."
I think there are some misconceptions here. My production hasn't gone up, its actually declined. Because now I make everything to fit both sexes. Is it easier than doing separate G8 and G9? Yes, but I very rarely made stuff for the boys before. On the plus side, it possibly increases the pool of buyers, and gives you guys more bang for your buck. However, my prices havent gone up, yet the cost of time, energy, and production has. Im not complaining. Im just stating, this is how it is.
I was going to say the same thing as CHWT. This is very good news!
While I think some old timers that have dipped their toes into the creation and selling side of things might be aware of that many are completely oblivious to that. It's like years back I heard that there were certain people that thought I had such an easy job being a hairdresser. I laughed and laughed and laughed. Try standing on your feet 8 to 10 hours a day, cutting, curling and hilighting hair all the while listening to all their problems and having to deal with others working talking, blow dryers going constantly. Folks just don't know the ins and outs of many industries but have unfounded opinions allot of the times.
Fully agreed.
Additionally, G8 came with separate eyelashes and dForce clothes and hair, G 8.1 added additional tear mats and PBR skins. G9 - 8K mats.
Fully agreed.
Additionally, G8 came with separate eyelashes and dForce clothes and hair, G 8.1 added additional tear mats and PBR skins. G9 - 8K mats.
So you are wanting to use Genesis 9 content on Genesis 8, that is different - and except where things happened to converge has always required add-ons to handle, Daz has never included a back-conversion tool for older gerenations with the new.
yea. Really on never? Maybe I've never tried to go backward. That's possible I guess.
I'm really so sorry to read how at least some of the PAs here are struggling (and buyers as well), times are just so messed up everywhere, for everyone. I'm buying less items atm but am trying to buy more on release than before, since this seems to be the time when vendors make their actual money, or most of it anyway. So I'm actually spending a bit more, financially, and on less items, but I get to buy what I really want, without having to wait for a killer sale.
Concerning G9, I haven't played with the characters much for lack of time, but to me personally, quite a few of the releases so far have been very nice and inspiring - like Thimor, Santa and Minerva, also V9 and M9. They seem to me to be real 'characters' in the true sense of the word, figures with some personality instead of generic dolls for playing dress-up. I also like the fact that the file sizes for the clothes have gone waaaay down with G9. Overall, I feel it's a useful and interesting addition to my character pool. I would never give up my trusted G8 characters though, but I don't see any need to, wither.
Someone made a product for that, it lets you use G9 clothes on all the past Genesis figures. I can't remember the name, though.
There's probably a complex way to save the shapes yourself using the Clone shapes under the hidden G9 properties.
This is the product that lets you use G9 clothes on other figures like G8, etc. https://www.daz3d.com/mmx-genesis-9-clones-for-all
Of course you can't have one size fits all scenarios, and personally I don't like my males to be wearing sexy skirts and lingerie either :) but it was never meant to be that overly feminine items should fit males and vice versa. However there ARE plenty of items that will cross fit - enough to make it worthwhile for most people. And bonus that if you do like lingerie on your men, its more than possible :D
Male clothing on females work well, especially if you're looking for more coverage and less overly sexualised clothing - for example if you render some kids. If you don't like the textures that comes with the clothing, there's a ton of shaders out there that works really good too.
My criteria for rigging is that if its going to be overly feminine like a bra etc, I will make it fit on the base masculine shape, and make it look good if its worn flat for a more adrogynous look too. But making it fit Timor or Ghenghis Khan etc? That's just a waste of my time and the auto follow shape is good enough to work for it.
Here's some renders to show what I mean.
A tracksuit works great for both genders
In fact any kind of sports clothing can fit both genders easily
but wait... there's more :D
A monk outfit can be a sorceress outfit for a female
Fantasy outfits work particularly well for both genders... I did add a top to the female but I think it works fine - and with both genders available kitbashing is vastly expanded
I have more but not released so can't show them yet :)
Thanks. that looking great
Thank you, Mada. That was enlightening. I really appreciate that you have taken the time to show the comparisons.
Regards,
Richard.
Might be, might not be... The target base of DAZ imho works with with female figures compared to male figures at about a 5 to 1 ratio. So producing something that works for female and male figures alike, is only an advantage for 1 of 6 customers. And only if their fashion sense accepts the style used for both genders, which often isn't possible when the design is complicated and the customer is of a more tradional mindset.
So for me, as an example, having a piece of clothes to be used with male, female and all the inbetweens possible with G9 would rarely be an advantage. Maybe if it was some kind of uniform, or something from the "jeans & T-shirt" clothing style department... But with PAs probably having to invest more work and having to raise the prices of that, my inclination to buy such products is extremely limited.
It's more like a 2:1 ratio according to my sales over the years. Ive had some good performers, and I feel like it adequately represents the average user. So there is a decent possibility of extra sales. The prices haven't really gone up much, so again, it's good value for the average customer. There have also been some pleasant surprises, like Genghis looking rather good in a feather bun ;) Something I wouldn't have even bothered trying before G9.