New to Carrara, confused as hell
Herald of Fire
Posts: 3,504
For a very long time I've been soley using Daz Studio and Poser, so it's no surprise Carrara is a bit alien to me. I was under the impression that it supported a lot of DS features out of the box, and that doesn't appear to be the case.
Immediately the first thing I noticed is that... um.. it seems a bit unstable. I've barely owned it for 30 minutes and it's already managed to crash 3 times with very simple scenes or even no scene at all! I have no idea what causes the crashes. Carrara just grinds my HDD all of a sudden and the software locks up.
That aside, I'm also confused as to how you fit clothing and the like as you would in DS. Normally I could right-click the object and select 'fit to', but there doesn't seem to be an option for that here, nor does it automatically fit to the figure.
So, consider me as fresh-faced as a newborn when offering tips and advice. It's all uncharted territory as far as I'm concerned.
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Comments
some info for you -
http://www.daz3d.com/forums/discussion/15970/carrara-information-manual/p1
good tutorials here -
http://www.daz3d.com/forums/discussion/1454/cripeman-tutorials#latest
Hi!
Carrara is very different from DS so a lot of the features from DS you will not find in Carrara, on the other hand you will find lots of things that you cannot do with DS instead.
Physics, real hair, a renderer with easy to setup shaders without the shader mixer madness, pretty good animation tools and tons of other cool features.
In terms of crashes, yes it can crash now and then, but I am not sure that is what you are seeing.
When you save files and have the compression option set it can take looooong time to save a file with lots of stuff in it, next time it happens leave it for a while and see if it come back to life again, the problem is that you save everything in one file, so all geometry go there, it's not like DS that save every object in it's own file, so the .car files can be huge, and with compression (you see the option when you save a file) it will slow down the saving even more, and rumor say it can even corrupt the files with compression on.
You say it happen with a very simple scene, but a simple scene for DS may not be a simple scene for Carrara, a simple DS scene with a G2 character and a tree in the background is a lot of geometry for Carrara as all goes in one file.
I do not know if that is the problem but you said it grinds your HD and not actually crash, and when that happen with Carrara it is almost always ok, things just take very long time now and then, get some pain killers and get back to work
Carrara has a nasty bug that happen sometimes when you close Carrara and it ask if you want to save the changes, if you say yes it can crash sometimes, so save before you close Carrara.
G/G2 characters can cause it to "hang" for a long while, typical is that you see a message at the top like "Projecting morphs" and that it can sit there for a long time doing nothing at all, but just wait it will come back from the dead...
But yes, it will crash on you now and then, Carrara can do a lot of cool things but it is coming of age and a lack of TLC so you need to learn to live with the quirks if you are going to use it.
Hope that help a little.
The halts were quite lengthy, and left Carrara completely unresponsive during that time. This is usually followed by the usual Windows message of 'Carrara has stopped responding' even with an empty scene, so it doesn't seem to be a saving issue. Further, since I've only had it for a short while, I've not really tried to save any scenes anyway.
It freezes when I switch tabs, and freezes when I select objects. I can handle a bit of quirkyness, but it's definitely a bit OTT at the moment, and very hard to work with even if I knew what I was doing. On the upside, I did at least find the 'fit to' option.
It sounds like you have some problem there, you should not have that kind of crashes.
I am not sure what to look for, could be some OpenGL driver problem possibly but if DS works fine I don't think so.
There has been problems with Valentina/Postgres but that was at startup it crashed so i don't think that is the problem either.
What version of Carrara are you using ?
I only purchased it recently, so I would assume it's the latest version. It's version 8.5.1 Pro, (Build 19).
Here is a video for getting started
https://video.search.yahoo.com/search/video;_ylt=A0LEVwhZtbhVylQAybNXNyoA;_ylu=X3oDMTEyaHJtYTdyBGNvbG8DYmYxBHBvcwMxBHZ0aWQDQjAyNDVfMQRzZWMDc2M-?p=Youtube+Getting+Stated+In+Carrara+8+Pro&fr=tightropetb#id=1&vid=fd5342cd6c248bc0fea5fa7c401ccd72&action=view
I will say that my Carrara 8.5 Pro experience is much more stable than you report. So, it is definitely worth figuring out what is causing your problems. Also, there is slower response time for the first two genesis-tech figures (genesis and genesis 2), but I have gotten them to work in Carrara. There is a thread dedicated to addressing some of the common issues that occur for genesis and genesis 2.
http://www.daz3d.com/forums/discussion/45361/%3C/div%3E%3C/blockquote%3E
At this time, Carrara does not natively support Genesis 3 at all, although the figure can be brought in as an obj file or collada export after being posed in Daz Studio.
Also, Carrara natively supports figures that have the original Poser rigging, such as Victoria 4, Michael 4, and earlier.
are you using smart content or the content browser
I never use the smart content tab myself it is crashy for me
I dislike it even in in studio as it can do odd things and not always find the right items for a figure anyway, certainly not any without megadata
I load legacy stuff from the runtime and genesis and later stuff from my library which I have manually added to the content tab, the smart content tab has to think about everything it does whereas that is just click and load or drag and drop, do the later adding figures and props to the scene tab for zero co-ordinates or top view to place elsewhere and former for poses, conforming items etc with figure selected.
Yes, I agree. I never use smart content. Its references to its database could be responsible for some of your slow response time. I prefer to load everything from the content tab within the content browser. If you did a default install, you should have folders for "My Daz3D Library" and "My Daz3D Library Runtime" with the key difference being the word "runtime." You will find Poser-style content (CR2, PP2, etc, but think in terms of Victoria 4 and earlier) in the "Runtime" folder. You will find the DUF-style content (genesis, Victoria5 and above) in the subfolder without the word "Runtime." I did a custom install so my names are a little different, but the key difference remains the word "Runtime."
To get started with a new purchase of Carrara 8.5, I believe that you have genesis, Michael 5, the Pure Hair Classic, and the Michael 5 casual clothes by Bobbie25. You will find the Michael 5 figure based on genesis in the My Daz3D Library folder, genesis subfolder, character subfolder. Click and drag the Michael 5 icon from the browser folder to the instances tray. This will load the figure at the zero position. Notice that the figure structure has "Michael 5" at the highest level, then "Genesis" one level below, then the next level has 2 items, including "actor" and "hip." I prefer to load har, clothes, etc. to the top folder level (Michael 5 in this case) without using "fit to" yet. So, the hair and clothes are on the same folder leel as Genesis and all are within the same larger group. Then I use the "fit to" function. You can select the genesis level to apply poses, expressions, hands, etc. from the content browser (again, not smart content). You will find shape morphs for genesis by selecting the "actor" level and clicking on the "parameters" tab in the upper right.
I do manage to use the Smart content tab but it takes a few minutes to come up and does apear to freeze Carrara. but other than that I follow the above advice, it does sometimes miss content though.
I have a new top of the line I7 computer with 16 gig of ram and the file I saved for the Carrara challenge took 4 hours to save as I acidentally left the compress option checked. in the mean time it appeared that Carrara just froze up. I left it and it did come back to life.
I do have issues with the smart content tabe not always being populated because it did not start the DataBase correctly in which case I just exit and restart. i have fewer issues if I start the DIM and have it up when I start Carrara.
It seems Smart Content might have proven to be my biggest downfall with Carrara so far then. It seems to crash when I have the tab selected and I swap between figures or other objects. It seems odd that Daz designed both DS and Carrara to use smart content, but only DS can do this with any reliability.
Using the content menu has solved some issues, though it does make finding some of my content an absolute nightmare now (there's no search function ala DS to fall back on). At the very least it's a lot more stable as a result.
One thing I am noticing though, and one thing that's apparent even in the pictures you displayed above, is the torso seems to be off-color compared to the rest of the limbs and head. During render, there are visible seams along those same limbs and the neckline. Any ideas on how best to curb this, or better still remove it entirely?
Click on the globe shaped icon along the top at far right, currently it's on the next to the right end position. Then the assembly room view will show textures on your objects vs gourad view. That catches me unawares if I load a new item, as the size of my window tends to hide behind the right side panel.
If you have a lot of DAZ store content, the slower Smart Content performs I have found.
Be patient, Carrara will do a lot. I am not a high-level user, as these experts are, but I enjoy working with it.
@Herald of Fire - If you installed your Daz content using the DIM, you can use DIM to find it. For frequently used figures, you will want to make some adjustments to the component shaders and then save the global shader for future use. Although the M5 review appears inconsistent, the default shaders do work OK when rendered (again, you will want to make your own adjustments anyway). I think there is a sale on Carrara shaders by Ringomontfort. He has shaders for most frequently used Daz figures. You could learn a lot just by examining how he sets his up in the shader tree,
The geometry is saved in Carrara, and isn't referenced in an external file, which can make files much larger, but I have had more luck getting more figures in Carrara than I have in Studio (pre-64 bit days). If you save a scene using the Local option, any image maps are referenced from their original location. Doing so will reduce the file size. If you save Internally, Carrara saves the file internally in a high quality loss-less format and it even up-converts files, so low res .jpg files will be larger than you would think. Personally, I save locally.
As mentioned, there is a bug that can sometimes crop up (not everytime) when you quit without saving and Carrara asks if you want to save first. If you do this, it is best to cancel out of the quit operation and Save or Save As before choosing quit. If you choose Quit, then Save, Carrara can get ahead of itself and close out the file before all the data is written which can lead to a corrupted file.
I found that C8.5 actually loaded all my figures, including Genesis and Genesis 2 rather quickly. Manipulation was responsive. I've heard about the slow load times before, so I expected the worst and was pleasantly surprised with how snappy it seemed.
Regarding the textures, Carrara used to default to Sampling for its image maps, but with C8.5 the default was changed to Fast Mip-Map, which I don't like. If you see seems between shading domains, this could be the cause. The fix is to change the texture maps to Sampling in the Texture room.
Regarding some other texture issues: Carrara, Poser, Studio, Lightwave, Cinema4D, etc. all have their own renderers (excluding for the moment, external renderers), which can lead to issues in how various functions are translated between applications. For example, textures set up for Poser work in Carrara with some tweaks. When Carrara translates the color channel it can add a color multiplier which causes a greenish or bluish color. The Highlight and Shininess can also be an issue. This isn't Carrara's fault, it's just a matter of different shader/render engine functions between the two programs.
Now that Carrara can use Genesis 1 and 2, it loads D|S ,duf files, which contain Studio shader functions. Carrara also has to convert them. I have found the conversion looks pretty good, when compared to a Poser-to-Carrara conversion. There are some features in Studio's shader system that are handled differently than in Carrara, such as SSS, so a direct translation is not always possible, even though both programs have SSS. Those are what will need fixing. Also strictly procedural shaders in Studio may not work correctly.
Don't let all this shader business freak you out though. Carrara's shading system is very powerful, flexible and fun when you learn it. Plus, it is super easy to save your multi-domain shaders for later drag-and-drop use on other figures that utilize the same shading domains. Not only that, but there are PAs that make Carrara specific skin shaders. There are also a few hi-res Genesis 1 (I think) skin shaders that come with the Pro version of Carrara.
Then there's using the Texture room to make a 99% procedural skin texture. This one is for a V4 (and derivative):
http://www.sharecg.com/v/77436/view/7/Material-and-Shader/Carrara-V4-Procedural-Skin-Shader-and-hair
Smart Content seems to be a lot better since 8.5.1 and Postgres. It's much faster, and rock solid on my system ( a 3 year old i5 Mac). I find it's a lot easier to find stuff in the Products list rather than the Categories list (which often just seems to be a scatterbomb collection of odd bits). I only really use the regular Content tab for stuff that came from other stores.
Sometimes I'll get a crash form Carrara if I Cmd-Z too many times in one of the modeller rooms, but generally it's pretty stable, I certainly wouldn't expect it to crash loading a figure or changing selection.
It seems the Windows version has some catching up to do then. It's definitely the smart content window which seems to be causing most of my crashes and halts. Simply having it open while selecting a different object can cause Carrara to seize up for a good minute or two.
As for the materials, I already knew that Carrara used a different shader set to the Daz materials I'm more used to. It was inevitable working with a new render engine that that would be the case. What's confusing me at the moment is that unlike Daz Studio, it doesn't seem to have any neat way of displaying which surfaces have which material, which can make it very difficult to judge which material I need to edit or copy without manually going into every one and checking the textures.
By way of an example, loading Skyler into an empty scene gives me dozens of shaders simply named 'AoA subsurface ##'. While I can go in and manually edit any one of these, since they're all given the exact same name it's next to impossible to differentiate between them.
I'm already sold on mastering Carrara, so you don't need to convince me it's worth keeping. There are certain features I bought it specifically for that I'm slowly learning how to use. It's a slow process, since I'm not at all used to the UI at the moment, but I'm sure given time I'll figure it all out.
Here's a thought: Changing selection probably runs a query against the CMS database for items that are "compatible". Maybe the problems you're experiencing are due to problems in that database. Unfortunately Carrara doesn't have database management tools, so you'll have to load DS to do it, but it could be worth doing a database reset and reimport. Other people have certainly reported improvements after doing that.
Another tip: On the Edit menu, you'll find options to remove unused objects & shaders, and consolidate duplicates. That'll go a long way towards decluttering your shader lists.
Oh, and you'll sometimes find that imported shaders have "barfed" (turned into a streaky blurred mess) - particularly on building typpe sets & props. That's actually a UV issue. To fix it, edit the object and go to the UV window, then untick "Map U Values". Fenric's Shader Doctor - http://www.daz3d.com/shader-power-tools-for-carrara is a great help here, since it fixes that and a bunch of other common issues in a single click.
Thanks, you're a lifesaver. Changing it to sampling cleared up all the seams perfectly. Everything is coming up roses now. There's still a lot for me to take in, but the bigger problems I had have all been solved. Now it's just a case of fine tuning and learning about all the new stuff I can play with! I also used one of the earlier tips of consolidating materials to clear up duplicates, which saved me a lot of work swapping them to use sampling.
I don't suppose there's a way to set it to sampling by default?
If there is, I haven't found it. It would be nice to have!
Forgive me if you are already aware of this:
If you have a shader you know you'll want to use on other figures, once you've tweaked it and corrected any errors, switched to sampling, etc. Then select the Shader tab in the browser, and either click the little black icon on the top right side of the browser window and add your own folder, or use one that is already in the shader browser, such as Skin, then select the figure's model or actor, and then the Shader tab at the top, and drag the multi-colored ball from the top of the shading domain list, and drop it into either an existing folder or one you have added. All the shading domains be saved. To use it, reverse the process and drag it from the browser and drop it onto the multi-colored ball above the shading domain list for another figure.
I've encountered this issue, but I can't seem to find a 'map U values' checkbox anywhere. When I go into edit mode, I see three icons in the right-hand bar which lets me swap between editing, animation and UV. I selected the UV option and according to the preview, the UV's seem fine. Either way there's nothing in either the file menus nor the sidebar which has the 'map U values' option you mentioned
You need to have the mesh selected...
Hi Herald of fire :)
perhaps this will help you get started in carrara,...
https://dl.dropboxusercontent.com/u/7907045/Carrara_first_steps.zip
For the Crashing issues your'e experiencing,.
Q: what type of object are you trying to use physics on,. and have you set it's defaul motion type from "keyframe" to Physics" before trying to run a physics simulation.
Some objects cannot use physics, and some objects would require significant calculations to me made before even beginning to try to simulate physics.
and that would appear as "nothing happening".
Q: what type of objects are you trying to apply Glow or Aura to.
As far as "Smart Conttent" and the database integration with Carrara,.
Smart Content was developed in Daz3D Studio, to be used by Daz3D Studio. from the ground up.
The ability to access "Smart Content" has been added to Carrara, but it's not a native part of Carrara's core application, it has to communicate with a database to search and provide the results,. so there s some lagging when compared to DS
Take it slower while you're loading figurs and clothing,. and change back to the sequencer view,.. away from smart content when you're working in a scene,. to avoid unnecessary searching.