Shaders

odinmtg

Hello, I've been trying to find something that adequetely explains what shaders are and what they do, could someone explain to me what they do? Or at least provide me with a link to where I could read about it? Thank you :)

patience55

As far as useage goes: a material file applies to only the item it was created for.

A Shader can be applied to "any" surface. Item needs to be selected in the scene AND the desired surfaces selected via the Surfaces Tab, then click on the Shader to have it apply. Shaders often look odd until "rendered".

Richard Haseltine

A shader is what describes the behaviour of a surface, light, or camera to the render engine(3delight or Iray, for example). Different shaders have different properties, in the case of 3Delight shaders sometimes very different - toon shaders for example, or special effects shaders like those from PoseWorks. The Material Presets and Shader Presets that patience55 describes usually specify the shader to use and its settings (though some will specify only a subset of the possible values, so that they can be used to modify another setting - for example, changing the bump strength so that a surface looks good in close up or from a distance).

odinmtg

Awesome, so what would be some ways I could use shaders? I mean, why would I want to use a shader other than the ones that already come with the prop, or hair, or figure, etc.? If I put a metallic shader on say a Genesis 2 Male, will it make him look metallic?

sriesch

  Note that some shaders completely replace the original image-based material, and others attempt to modify it, it depends on the shader.

  There are a number of reasons one might choose to use shaders.  In no particular order, here are some I can think of offhand:

.  Ability to apply the identical material to a large number of objects.  So for example I could take a human figure, a column, and some clothing, then use a shader to make them all look like a single carved stone statue, then have some rocks and a cliff face in the scene made from the same stone material, even though none of these items looked either similar nor like stone to start with.

.  Ability to easily change the material.  For example, maybe I have a shiny new car, but I can use a shader to make it an old rusty beater in seconds without having to be an expert in photoshoping the original image.  Or, maybe I have a fantastic model but the original texture is horrible and looks like plastic, but there's a shader out there that would make it look great.

.  Ability to create an effect I otherwise couldn't have, or quickly create, like using the grass shader on a terrain to create a field, or a variation of it on clothing to make it fuzzy.  There's a rock shader that also modifies the shape somewhat, which can be quite interesting.  I also often use the chrome shader (one of the free shader mixer shaders somewhere in the store, maybe with a tutorial) to quickly replace the default chrome that comes with some vehicles.

.  It's also handy if I'm rendering in Bryce, which can't handle a lot of large image-based textures without running out of memory, since I can use procedural shaders in many cases instead to cram more objects into the application than I would otherwise be able to.

odinmtg

Oh so awesome! I didn't know I could do all that! Can you or anyone recommend some basic started shader packs I could get? I don't mind if I have to buy them but if there are free ones that'd be cool too. I use 3Delight right now, but eventually when I upgrade my video card I'm going to use Iray

sriesch

It probably depends on what you want to do.  (I'm assuming you want shaders for DAZ Studio, but I'm not sure if you wanted shaders for Iray, or for 3Delight, or both.)  What do you intend to shade?  Clothing? architecture?  metals? glass? ghosts? rocks? people?  etc.

odinmtg

Both. Mostly people, some metal, glass would be cool, architecture. And yes I do use Daz Studio :)

sriesch

I have barely touched on the shaders available in DAZ Studio (I need to do something about that), so somebody else will need to provide in-depth reviews and suggestions.  Here are one or two to get you started though (all 3DL shaders):

http://www.daz3d.com/shader-mixer-tutorial-i ; (free, has a small variety of shaders.)

http://www.daz3d.com/nature-s-variance-shaders-and-props-for-daz-studio (marketed for foliage, but with minor tweaks to color it makes great rusty metal.)

http://www.daz3d.com/daz-studio-dirt-shaders (grungy metal)

http://www.daz3d.com/gemologica (has very smooth metals, and gemstones that could work as glass materials, and other items)

http://www.daz3d.com/subsurface-shader-base ; (I've not used it for people yet, although I'm under the impression this is the way to go for that.  Note that some figures come with SSS settings for it.)

but like I said, this is just the tip of the iceberg, there's a zillion really cool looking products out there.  Search for "shaders" in the store or forums.

odinmtg

Awesome, thank you so much!

Richard Haseltine

sriesch said:

http://www.daz3d.com/subsurface-shader-base ; (I've not used it for people yet, although I'm under the impression this is the way to go for that.  Note that some figures come with SSS settings for it.)

This is included with the DAZ Studio  Default Lights and Shaders pack.

mjc1016

sriesch said:

I have barely touched on the shaders available in DAZ Studio (I need to do something about that), so somebody else will need to provide in-depth reviews and suggestions.  Here are one or two to get you started though (all 3DL shaders):

http://www.daz3d.com/shader-mixer-tutorial-i ; (free, has a small variety of shaders.)

http://www.daz3d.com/nature-s-variance-shaders-and-props-for-daz-studio (marketed for foliage, but with minor tweaks to color it makes great rusty metal.)

http://www.daz3d.com/daz-studio-dirt-shaders (grungy metal)

http://www.daz3d.com/gemologica (has very smooth metals, and gemstones that could work as glass materials, and other items)

http://www.daz3d.com/subsurface-shader-base ; (I've not used it for people yet, although I'm under the impression this is the way to go for that.  Note that some figures come with SSS settings for it.)

but like I said, this is just the tip of the iceberg, there's a zillion really cool looking products out there.  Search for "shaders" in the store or forums.

 Unfortunately most of that list are not shaders.  They are just presets for existing shaders.

Simply put shaders are additional code that adds new or extends functions of the render engine.  One of the biggest differences between 3Delight and Iray is that most of what 3DL does by way of shaders, Iray has hard coded into the renderer, itself.

sriesch

mjc1016 said:

 Unfortunately most of that list are not shaders.  They are just presets for existing shaders.

Sorry, I should have clarified that post a bit.   When I said "shader", I was thinking "shaders or presets for them".

Subsurface shader base is a shader.   <-- I WAS WRONG, IT'S NOT.

I think Gemologica is it's own shader?

Subsurface shader base, shader mixer tutorial, nature's variance, and the dirt shaders are all for the shader mixer, which is either already built into DAZ Studio or part of one of the free content packages that goes with it.

sriesch

To add to mjc1016's comment: When you do something like copy materials from one object to apply to another, you aren't actually copying the material.  You are just copying the values of the parameters.  So if you copy the settings for an object1 that uses shader1 and paste them to an object2 that uses shader2, it's not going to work.  It will copy I think parameters that have the same names, so you might even think it worked if you weren't paying close attention, but it's still using shader2.   You actually have to select object2's surface(s) and apply shader1 to it, THEN copy the material (settings).

sometimes when you double-click a content thumbnail it is applying just the settings so this is a 2-part prodedure (apply the shader, then apply the settings), but other times they are combined into one content thumbnail that does both at once.

sriesch

One more thing to add:  You can also use the Shader Mixer pane to create and modify your own shader mixer networks, if you have the desire to learn how.  I've been a huge slacker on using it, it's on my list of stuff to master someday, I've only dabbled briefly.

mjc1016

Shader Mixer itself could be considered a shader...and that's where it gets a bit confusing, because it's 'modular'/node based.   So while anything built in it isn't really a stand alone, complied (yes, that's another thing that can be used to separate what is/isn't a shader) shader, what it's built with, as a whole is.

The way they are applied is dependent upon how they are saved...as a material or shader preset.

All the surfaces in that image, the 'atmosphere' and even most of the lights are all compiled shaders, from sources outside of Studio.  The fog is a standard 3DL shader, the armor is a suface shader I've been working on, the environment light is on made by Mustakettu, the goggles and part of the gun have an emissive shader, that I've been working on (looks like it needs more samples, as it should be smooth, not dots, on the illuminated area of the chest).  The only one (unless I missed a surface or two) that is not external the shadow catcher on the 'floor'.   Oh, and it renders in about an hour...on a low to mid powered system (about 35 minutes in the standalone 3DL).

ronnibear_a939cc46b4

sriesch said:

To add to mjc1016's comment: When you do something like copy materials from one object to apply to another, you aren't actually copying the material.  You are just copying the values of the parameters.  So if you copy the settings for an object1 that uses shader1 and paste them to an object2 that uses shader2, it's not going to work.  It will copy I think parameters that have the same names, so you might even think it worked if you weren't paying close attention, but it's still using shader2.   You actually have to select object2's surface(s) and apply shader1 to it, THEN copy the material (settings).

sometimes when you double-click a content thumbnail it is applying just the settings so this is a 2-part prodedure (apply the shader, then apply the settings), but other times they are combined into one content thumbnail that does both at once.

Please correct me if I'm wrong, but are the "nature's variance" shaders only designed to work in 3DL renders? I get pretty decent renders in Iray so long as the trees are green, but when I apply the autumn shaders or try to mix the variations and render it in IRAY, the leaves still render green. Is there a fix, parameter setting or some kind of workaround that I may be missing? From the Shader editor, I can see the 4 colors of oranges, reds, and yellows have actually been applied, but the tree itseld is still green in the preview window, and renders green, still, in Iray. The only time it comes out the correct colors is when I render in 3DL. :\ Any help woulf be greatly appreciated, since the documentation doesn't cover this. -_-

Bright Shadow

ronnibear_a939cc46b4 said:

Please correct me if I'm wrong, but are the "nature's variance" shaders only designed to work in 3DL renders? I get pretty decent renders in Iray so long as the trees are green, but when I apply the autumn shaders or try to mix the variations and render it in IRAY, the leaves still render green.

I've been messing with Nature's Varience and iRay a good bit, and I haven't been able to get any of the shaders to work. Seems to be 3DL only.

Nature's Variance was released pre-iRay, so I can understand why it doesn't work. Still, it'd be awesome if DimensionTheory put out an iRay version, even if it were a separate paid package.