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Just about had enough now.....

jontaylor99jontaylor99 Posts: 216
in New Users

Well, I've been trying out DAZ for a good couple of months or more now and still I'm getting nowhere at all with it.

I can 'build' people, I can make scenes I'm even pretty good at setting up poses.... But when it comes to the final stage I'm still bloody crap! I can not for the life of me get things to render to any state other than basic.

I've spent a small fortune in store buying products that 'should' help out or maybe simplify things... but they don't ! The trouble I'm having with add on products is as age old problem, these products are undoubtedly made by some very clever people, the problem is very clever people always assume you know what they are talking about so understanding 'tutorials', instructions and read me's is sometimes a nightmare in it's self.

Example - AoA 'Grass Shader' - I've had this product for some time now and still it (or I ) have failed to create a single blade of grass. I've tried to follow the tutorial to the letter, I've tried it in default, I've tried it with 1000 different sttings.... still not one blade of grass!

Example 2 - AoA 'Advanced Spotlight' - " even in default will give you great renders " ... No it won't, it gives me a black screen, I tried setting it up to some of the suggested settings in the instructions, it gave me a black screen, I adjusted each setting a little at a time, it gave me a black screen, in fact that's all I've had from the 'Advanced Spotlight', a black screen.

Lighting and Shaders are a nightmare for me too, I spend hour after hour building a scene, setting a pose etc and usually all for nothing, I hit render, the first thing I see is 'compiling 0/169 shaders' , I take it this means I should have 169 Shaders in the scene I'm trying to render ? If so, where the hell are they and how do I add them ? I've also spent hours searching 'My Library' for shaders that go with objects in my scences ...and guess what, there aren't any..... Grrrrrrrrrr!

I think my patience  has almost dried up with this software, surely to God there must be a more simple way of getting it to work

Comments

  • CO3DRCO3DR Posts: 159

    I'm even newer to this than you, and I've been through some of these already. The preview is always well lit, but the scene won't be lit unless there is light somewhere. One of the tutorials walked through Renderer selection, and I'm lucky that I can use Iray most of the time for final render. I'm not sure about the 0/169 shaders number you are seeing, but maybe that's akin to Iray's "iterations"??? I mean, the software is just telling you how much work it has to do.

    I do agree that the tutorials seem hit and miss. Some of them spend too much time telling you how easy it will be. Others, like the builtin one I have found very useful. I would love to have some sort of rating/review system on the tutorials so that you can choose better what others recommend. Other things like an explicit scale for level or pre-requisites would be helpful too.

    I'm only a few days in...so far, it's been more fun than drudge.

  • barbultbarbult Posts: 24,872
    Jontaylor99, the products you mentioned are specifically made for the 3delight render engine. They will not work with the Iray render engine. DAZ Studio didn't even have an Iray option when those AoA products were created. Which render engine are you using?
  • jag11jag11 Posts: 885

    Have patience. All things are difficult before they become easy. Saadi.

    First, I would make sure I'm using the desired render engine, there are two of them, 3Delight and Iray. The shaders mentioned only go with 3Delight and are accompanied with good documentation. Shaders only appear when you select a surface. Also DAZ Install Manager can show you package files or installed files.

    I'm no expert here, I've been using this cool software for a year and I started from Zero, I read a lot but when I think I'm stuck I use the forums. The community is great and there is always someone willing to help.

     

  • srieschsriesch Posts: 4,241
    jontaylor99 said:

    Well, I've been trying out DAZ for a good couple of months or more now and still I'm getting nowhere at all with it.

    I can 'build' people, I can make scenes I'm even pretty good at setting up poses.... But when it comes to the final stage I'm still bloody crap! I can not for the life of me get things to render to any state other than basic.

    I've spent a small fortune in store buying products that 'should' help out or maybe simplify things... but they don't ! The trouble I'm having with add on products is as age old problem, these products are undoubtedly made by some very clever people, the problem is very clever people always assume you know what they are talking about so understanding 'tutorials', instructions and read me's is sometimes a nightmare in it's self.

    Example - AoA 'Grass Shader' - I've had this product for some time now and still it (or I ) have failed to create a single blade of grass. I've tried to follow the tutorial to the letter, I've tried it in default, I've tried it with 1000 different sttings.... still not one blade of grass!

    Example 2 - AoA 'Advanced Spotlight' - " even in default will give you great renders " ... No it won't, it gives me a black screen, I tried setting it up to some of the suggested settings in the instructions, it gave me a black screen, I adjusted each setting a little at a time, it gave me a black screen, in fact that's all I've had from the 'Advanced Spotlight', a black screen.

    Lighting and Shaders are a nightmare for me too, I spend hour after hour building a scene, setting a pose etc and usually all for nothing, I hit render, the first thing I see is 'compiling 0/169 shaders' , I take it this means I should have 169 Shaders in the scene I'm trying to render ? If so, where the hell are they and how do I add them ? I've also spent hours searching 'My Library' for shaders that go with objects in my scences ...and guess what, there aren't any..... Grrrrrrrrrr!

    I think my patience  has almost dried up with this software, surely to God there must be a more simple way of getting it to work

    Can't help you with the AoA Advanced Spotlight or your patience, but I might be able to help you with the AOA grass shader.  Note that the AOA grass shader is not compatible with Iray, it is a 3Delight shader.  Try this simple test: 

    In the Render Settings pane, change the Render Engine dropdown to 3Delight if it isn't already. 

    From the menu, select Create > New Primitive, then select a Type plane and press the Accept button.

    In the Toolbar, click the Surface selection tool, then click on the plane to select it's surface.

    In the Content Library pane's search field, enter "!Grass Shader Base.duf" and double-click on the resulting content thumbnail.

    Render.  You should have a square patch of grass.  Does this work?

     

    For the 'compiling 0/169 shaders', it should just be showing you progress as it does whatever it does to prepare the render, it's not asking you to perform any action.  It should then proceed with the render, which probably won't be instanateous.  (if it NEVER renders, obviously something is wrong somewhere that you will need to identify and change, but you don't need to go hunting in your content for anything that's missing; nothing is missing, it should render the scene you gave it.)

  • jontaylor99jontaylor99 Posts: 216

    sriesch - I'll give that a try for sure, I didn't realise shaders would only work in one render engine and not the other, thank you.

    My renders always start, some are better results than others but none are great, another problem I'm having is that my GPU sometimes will not kick in and help out with the render even though it is set to do so, as you can imagine, without it's help some of my work is taking a life time to render. Have you any idea why this is happening ? Eg:- Will there be something set up that is stopping the GPU from joining in ?

     

    jag11 - I'm trying both 3Delight and iRay but so far I'm having little fun out of either. I totally agree with you about the forum, what little I have learned so far has come from advice received here and not from instruction manuals or read me's.

     

    barbutt - I use both/either engines.

     

    AllThatxAz - Yes, my first few weeks were fun too but now I'm trying to do something outside of default, it's a nightmare....lol

     

     

  • ToborTobor Posts: 2,300
    jontaylor99 said:

    another problem I'm having is that my GPU sometimes will not kick in and help out with the render even though it is set to do so, as you can imagine, without it's help some of my work is taking a life time to render. Have you any idea why this is happening ? Eg:- Will there be something set up that is stopping the GPU from joining in ?

    For Iray: Could be the scene is too big, or something else. After rendering, check the logs (Help->Troubleshooting->View Log File), and scroll all the way tpo the end, where the last render took place. Warnings and errors related to Iray are marked as such. If you're on a PC (similar apps are available for the Mac), download a copy of GPU-Z, and run it while you're rendering. In that program, click the Sensors tab, and it'll show you the memory used. If it reaches the available VRAM, the GPUs will kick out.

    Note that if you have one video card in your computer, it must hold the RAM for the display -- about 150-400MB depending on resolution -- plus the rendered scene. A 1 GB card can hold just a few simple objects. A 2GB card can hold a character with hair and clothes, and a basic setting. 

     

  • BeeMKayBeeMKay Posts: 7,019

    AOA lights only work in 3Delight. So using them in iray will give you a black screen, as they have nothing to render with.

    If the AOA lights don't render for you in 3Delight, have you installed manuall, or using DIM? AOA lights have some parts that need to be installed inside the program directory, and without them, you will get fantastic images of "black eagle on black background" ;-)

    What works very nice for me in 3Delight is using AOA ambient light at 20-30% strength, and AOA Distant light as main light source. That gives a very good light for most renders, and is fairly quick.

    AOA has some manuals, i.e. the spotlight one: http://docs.daz3d.com/lib/exe/fetch.php/public/read_me/index/17409/17409_advanced-spotlight.pdf

    If you haven't already, take a look at http://www.daz3d.com/help/help-daz-3d-video-tutorials/ They are for the previous version of DS, but will give you a pretty good idea about most things, i.e. the last video of that set which covers quite a bit ground.

    That said, please don't feel frustrated. Learning the ropes takes a long time. I'm here for 2 years now, and feel like I haven't even scratched the surface...

  • keithgkeithg Posts: 62

    Please don't lose patience with Daz. When you get to grips with it, it is a fantastic piece of software. I've only been using it 3 months but am very happy with what I can achieve now.

    My top tip would be not to buy shaders or anything until you've firmly got to grips with what is achievable with the stuff that ships with it. A little bit of time spent with ubersurface and uberenvironment can give some pretty fantastic results. Learn as much as you can about surfaces, lighting etc. from the many, many tutorials that are on the web.

    I tend to use 3Delight as my main render engine as I'm animating and need the speed. My best purchase recently was environmental domes (reflection maps from DimensionTheory). The attached is a very quick render with an environmental dome and the only light source being the camera headlight. Materials were using ubersurface with raytrace on the reflections.

    It's low resolution but the full car looks stunning in a high res render. It looks even better in iRay without any lights at all but takes hours to render.

    Good luck and don't give up.

    tr blue.jpg
    1076 x 769 - 404K
  • jontaylor99jontaylor99 Posts: 216
    Tobor said:
    jontaylor99 said:

    another problem I'm having is that my GPU sometimes will not kick in and help out with the render even though it is set to do so, as you can imagine, without it's help some of my work is taking a life time to render. Have you any idea why this is happening ? Eg:- Will there be something set up that is stopping the GPU from joining in ?

    For Iray: Could be the scene is too big, or something else. After rendering, check the logs (Help->Troubleshooting->View Log File), and scroll all the way tpo the end, where the last render took place. Warnings and errors related to Iray are marked as such. If you're on a PC (similar apps are available for the Mac), download a copy of GPU-Z, and run it while you're rendering. In that program, click the Sensors tab, and it'll show you the memory used. If it reaches the available VRAM, the GPUs will kick out.

    Note that if you have one video card in your computer, it must hold the RAM for the display -- about 150-400MB depending on resolution -- plus the rendered scene. A 1 GB card can hold just a few simple objects. A 2GB card can hold a character with hair and clothes, and a basic setting. 

     

    Thanks for that info Tobor, I didn't realize there was such a log, I'll check it out next time I render something. My card is a GTX 780 3Gb with double bios, do you think that should be big enough to cover most things, even with iRay or do I need to get a better one ?

    The scene I'm having the most trouble with is a pretty big one to be fair so that could be why my GPU is not kicking in.

  • jontaylor99jontaylor99 Posts: 216
    lee_lhs said:

    AOA lights only work in 3Delight. So using them in iray will give you a black screen, as they have nothing to render with.

    If the AOA lights don't render for you in 3Delight, have you installed manuall, or using DIM? AOA lights have some parts that need to be installed inside the program directory, and without them, you will get fantastic images of "black eagle on black background" ;-)

    What works very nice for me in 3Delight is using AOA ambient light at 20-30% strength, and AOA Distant light as main light source. That gives a very good light for most renders, and is fairly quick.

    AOA has some manuals, i.e. the spotlight one: http://docs.daz3d.com/lib/exe/fetch.php/public/read_me/index/17409/17409_advanced-spotlight.pdf

    If you haven't already, take a look at http://www.daz3d.com/help/help-daz-3d-video-tutorials/ They are for the previous version of DS, but will give you a pretty good idea about most things, i.e. the last video of that set which covers quite a bit ground.

    That said, please don't feel frustrated. Learning the ropes takes a long time. I'm here for 2 years now, and feel like I haven't even scratched the surface...

    Thanks Lee, I'll 'try' and read through those links... I'm not good with reading tutorials and 'read me's' , As soon as I start reading things that are as clear as mud I lose interest....lol

  • jontaylor99jontaylor99 Posts: 216
    keithg said:

    Please don't lose patience with Daz. When you get to grips with it, it is a fantastic piece of software. I've only been using it 3 months but am very happy with what I can achieve now.

    My top tip would be not to buy shaders or anything until you've firmly got to grips with what is achievable with the stuff that ships with it. A little bit of time spent with ubersurface and uberenvironment can give some pretty fantastic results. Learn as much as you can about surfaces, lighting etc. from the many, many tutorials that are on the web.

    I tend to use 3Delight as my main render engine as I'm animating and need the speed. My best purchase recently was environmental domes (reflection maps from DimensionTheory). The attached is a very quick render with an environmental dome and the only light source being the camera headlight. Materials were using ubersurface with raytrace on the reflections.

    It's low resolution but the full car looks stunning in a high res render. It looks even better in iRay without any lights at all but takes hours to render.

    Good luck and don't give up.

    That car looks fantastic Keith, I haven't been able to get anywhere near that kind of render from 3Delight, it always looks very basic and very uninspiring when I've used it so I tend to try and stick with iRay. Every now and then I get nice results with iRay but I just seem stuck now as to how to move on.

     

    Thanks for all your input guys, it's much appreciated I can assure you !

  • jontaylor99jontaylor99 Posts: 216

    Well, I've read through yet more tutorials and instructions and I'm still clueless....

    The trouble with tutorials is, as I mentioned before, they are always written by very clever people who seem to struggle a great deal in talking in a language that us simple folk understand.

    It's a bit like when you're lost and ask people for directions, some people will give you simple and clear directions on how to get where you need to be and some people will totally over elaborate to the point where you end up even more lost than you were in the first place. Even the DAZ user manual is guilty of this to a large degree, in my opinion it spends far too much time telling you what things are trying to do and why they work and people (me) end up bored ****less of reading stuff they don't understand before they even get to the bit where it explains how it all works.

    I think what I need is a complete idiots guide to setting things up.

  • Roman_K2Roman_K2 Posts: 1,252
    jontaylor99 said:
    I think what I need is a complete idiots guide to setting things up.

    Writing documentation - it's a bit of an art form in itself. One of the first computer books I ever bought was "How To Write A Usable User Manual" by Weiss... note that even in the wide open-market there are wrinkles and crinkles, for instance I've seen a "small" spiral bound (IIRC) copy of Windows 7 for Dummies as well as a large, "thick" edition of the same thing. Neither book mentions the existence of the other, I don't think.

    As I've mentioned recently, I've been doing this for a couple of years, not months, and I'm just getting around to finding shader resources that I didn't know I had. DIM has helped, although if you read threads about it, it is not without... variables, as in "results may vary".

    Be aware that even if you do make progress, say by trying everything on a new, scrap or "experimental" machine or machine-for-experimenting, there are a couple of things to learn about managing databases... also a real twist for me has been the cancellation of Norton Ghost, accompanied as it was by big shifts in Windows Backup... the reason I mention this is once you have everything more or less up and running to your liking it's important to consider TESTING YOUR BACKUP PROTOCOLS, to see if you are really and truly able to recover everything in the event of some unforeseen disaster. I think it's nice that DAZ seems to let you use their "cloud" by default, so at the very least you can get your products back and since DIM is sort of automated that type of file recovery is a bit easier than it was a few years ago say.

    Btw I bumped into this thread by typing "old documentation links?" into the search box. I have a really neat-looking shader called "PW Ghost" and when I clicked on the HTML readme file there is a link to http://artzone.daz3d.com/wiki/doku.php/azproduct/4345 that appears to be broken. As this readme was contained in a recent D/L, from the "cloud", using DIM I'm thinking it indicates a small problem.

    However the product manifest or packing slip (in the readme file) is more extensive than I expected... that was a bit of a surprise.

    I am very happy with DAZ 3-D even if all I can do is design story boards by positioning primitive shapes and then rotating the entire scene and sight lines... stuff like that. However I can do a lot more... for me it has been possible to achieve fairly complicated scenes.

    Roman

    "One must of course maintain a certain amount of contempt for the materials used, in order to achieve the purest realization of the idea." - Man Ray

  • ToborTobor Posts: 2,300
    jontaylor99 said:

    The scene I'm having the most trouble with is a pretty big one to be fair so that could be why my GPU is not kicking in.

    Yes, it's probably the case that the card lacks the memory for the bigger scene. A 780 is fine for me, as 90% of my scenes are under 2GB, and 98% are under 3GB. However, that's because I don't do naby full movie "settings," but individual objects rendered separately, then composited later.

  • NovicaNovica Posts: 23,905
    edited August 2015
    jontaylor99 said:

    barbutt - I use both/either engines.

     

    LOL- it's Barbult, not Barbutt! You made my Sunday! (And I'll never let Barbult forget this...I am laughing so hard right now!)  

    Post edited by Novica on
  • NovicaNovica Posts: 23,905

    Might I suggest starting your own Art Studio thread and when you get stuck, you can ask for specific help. It's hard to assist with general "I'm stuck, don't know what to do" as that can vary from product to product. The Art Studio is for works in progress and as you work your way along, you can say "I'm stuck with..."

    I started my first thread (am on thread 6) when I FIRST started, it goes from scratch, and before they became monster threads (1500 posts each) I used them to go back and read what to do. But people will be happy to help you!

  • ChoholeChohole Posts: 33,604

    The New Users Forum is designed for exactly the problems that this New Member has,  We are here to help and will do so without any of the problems that can plague the more general forums.  That is why we say  

     

    "These forums are going to be moderated a little more strictly than our general forums. As a community it will be important for us to cultivate an atmosphere of collaboration and encouragement that will allow for our newest additions to have fun and to learn in an environment that is conducive to both."

     I do agree that we need more specifics in order to be able to guide the OP, but The Art Studio is not the place for technical issues.

  • jontaylor99jontaylor99 Posts: 216
    Novica said:

    Might I suggest starting your own Art Studio thread and when you get stuck, you can ask for specific help. It's hard to assist with general "I'm stuck, don't know what to do" as that can vary from product to product. The Art Studio is for works in progress and as you work your way along, you can say "I'm stuck with..."

    I started my first thread (am on thread 6) when I FIRST started, it goes from scratch, and before they became monster threads (1500 posts each) I used them to go back and read what to do. But people will be happy to help you!

    I quite like this idea Novica and I might do something along those lines, once I can achieve something worth posting... Thanks for the idea.

    (SORRY- Barbult....lol)

     

  • NovicaNovica Posts: 23,905

    Sure! No problem.

  • barbultbarbult Posts: 24,872
    jontaylor99 said:
    Novica said:

    Might I suggest starting your own Art Studio thread and when you get stuck, you can ask for specific help. It's hard to assist with general "I'm stuck, don't know what to do" as that can vary from product to product. The Art Studio is for works in progress and as you work your way along, you can say "I'm stuck with..."

    I started my first thread (am on thread 6) when I FIRST started, it goes from scratch, and before they became monster threads (1500 posts each) I used them to go back and read what to do. But people will be happy to help you!

    I quite like this idea Novica and I might do something along those lines, once I can achieve something worth posting... Thanks for the idea.

    (SORRY- Barbult....lol)

     

    Actually, I hadn't noticed until Novica pointed it out! L and T look a lot alike on a tiny phone screen. You are forgiven ;)
  • SwanSwan Posts: 134
    edited August 2015

    Reality for DAZ and LuxRender will easily produce your renders with a minimum of fuss and maximum of control. What's more, the render works independent of DAZ so you can go on working while it is working assuming you either have a powerful enough machine or one dedicated to rendering. I've tried DAZ's built-in renderer, tried iRay. Reality to LuxRender beats the pants off either one.

    Get Reality here:

    <link removed>

    It costs just$30. The support you'll receive is nothing short of amazing.

    Get LuxRender for free here:

    http://www.luxrender.net/en_GB/index

    Your life and renders will be all the better for it.

    Post edited by fixmypcmike on
  • jontaylor99jontaylor99 Posts: 216
    Fuengirola said:

    Reality for DAZ and LuxRender will easily produce your renders with a minimum of fuss and maximum of control. What's more, the render works independent of DAZ so you can go on working while it is working assuming you either have a powerful enough machine or one dedicated to rendering. I've tried DAZ's built-in renderer, tried iRay. Reality to LuxRender beats the pants off either one.

    Get Reality here:

    <link removed>

    It costs just$30. The support you'll receive is nothing short of amazing.

    Get LuxRender for free here:

    http://www.luxrender.net/en_GB/index

    Your life and renders will be all the better for it.

    I've already got LuxRender Fuengirola but ever since I moved DAZ to a HD of it's own Luxrender has refused to show up no matter what I've tried. I'm not sure if DAZ is blocking it from showing or whether it can't find DAZ.

  • Richard HaseltineRichard Haseltine Posts: 102,839

    Have you set the path to LuxRender in the Reality/Luxus options? Is it the bridge plug-in that is missing? If so, did you reisntall when you moved DS?

  • dHandledHandle Posts: 617
    lee_lhs said:

    AOA lights only work in 3Delight.

    Do they?  Or are they "broken" in the newest version of DS, even in 3Dlight?

    How about the Atmospheric Effects Camera and, or so I hear, (I don't own) the Graphic Art Cameras? I haven't been able to get these to work for a while now.  I thought it was something I was doing.  I remember when I first started DS almost 2 years ago, everyone was raving about AoA's lights and cameras.  Now they're not working?

    If there are products that no longer function in the current version of DS, why are they still being sold in the store?

  • BeeMKayBeeMKay Posts: 7,019
    dHandle said:
    lee_lhs said:

    AOA lights only work in 3Delight.

    Do they?  Or are they "broken" in the newest version of DS, even in 3Dlight?

    How about the Atmospheric Effects Camera and, or so I hear, (I don't own) the Graphic Art Cameras? I haven't been able to get these to work for a while now.  I thought it was something I was doing.  I remember when I first started DS almost 2 years ago, everyone was raving about AoA's lights and cameras.  Now they're not working?

    If there are products that no longer function in the current version of DS, why are they still being sold in the store?

    AOA lights and the athmospheric cameras by AOA work fine in 4.8. I used both just this week.

    have you tried re-installing the AOA lights&cameras after installing 4.8? Bothe lights and cameras have files in the DS program folder itself, so reinstalling AOA might just cure your problem.

    as for the older stuff, there are still people who use the older versions of DS, for their own reasons.  

  • dHandledHandle Posts: 617
    lee_lhs said:
    dHandle said:
    lee_lhs said:

     

    AOA lights and the athmospheric cameras by AOA work fine in 4.8. I used both just this week.

    have you tried re-installing the AOA lights&cameras after installing 4.8? Bothe lights and cameras have files in the DS program folder itself, so reinstalling AOA might just cure your problem.

    as for the older stuff, there are still people who use the older versions of DS, for their own reasons.  

    Thanks Lee,

    I spent some time with the lights and atmospheric camera again last night, and searched the forums for help.  I saw where AOA himself mentioned that problems can stem from having progressive rendering on.  When I turned that off, and checked again, it seemed to be working somewhat....

    I am still getting errors...something about shaders and a brickyard folder?  I've seen where others have been plagued by that, too.  I haven't found an answer that works yet. I tried deleting the folder contents, and even the folder itself.  No joy. 

    The test renders look decent even with those errors, so...I'm not going to stress about it for now.

  • SzarkSzark Posts: 10,634

    jontaylor99 read this http://www.daz3d.com/forums/discussion/10835/somethings-to-consider-when-starting-to-learn-cg/p1 it may help with understanding that learning all this take a lot of time, dedication and patience.

    something about shaders and a brickyard folder

    That is normal as mentioned the Atmo Camera PDF manual that you get with the product.

  • mjc1016mjc1016 Posts: 15,001
    dHandle said:
    I am still getting errors...something about shaders and a brickyard folder?  I've seen where others have been plagued by that, too.  I haven't found an answer that works yet. I tried deleting the folder contents, and even the folder itself.  No joy. 

    The test renders look decent even with those errors, so...I'm not going to stress about it for now.

    What 'severity' level are the 'errors'?

    If they are Severity 1 it IS NOT an error...it's an informational/performance message.  Severity 2 means there may be a problem that could possibly impact rendering...but more often than not, it too is informational, but more of a 'this could be a problem' type info.  Severity 3 is when the real errors start.

     

  • dHandledHandle Posts: 617
    mjc1016 said:
    dHandle said:

     

    What 'severity' level are the 'errors'?

    If they are Severity 1 it IS NOT an error...it's an informational/performance message.  Severity 2 means there may be a problem that could possibly impact rendering...but more often than not, it too is informational, but more of a 'this could be a problem' type info.  Severity 3 is when the real errors start.

     

    Thanks mcj,

    That's good to know.  Errors have been level 1 and 2.

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