[Solved] How to rig and save new clothes for GF9 AND Victoria 9?
Pushee-Ri
Posts: 22
This is my first entry. Therefore a friendly "Hello" to all participants and the moderation.
I have created many dresses for GF8: modelled for GF8 Base, imported, Transfer Utility ... and the dresses fit any character: Base, Victoria 8, Amira 8, Chelsea 8, Girly Hana 8 etc.... without any problem.
But the G9 is driving me crazy.
I have read Mada's thread https://www.daz3d.com/forums/discussion/597726/genesis-9-clothing-questions-answers/p1 several times and watched J. Darling's video back and forth ... but I have not found the final solution.
If some of the experts here can help me on the subject of "How to rig and save new clothes that fit G9 Feminine Base (incl. dialed Characers based on it) and Victoria 9", I will write a step-by-step HTML / PDF tutorial on it. Guaranteed!
My steps so far:
1. Created a garment (loose-fitting jumper) for G9 Feminine Base in Blender and imported into DAZ. Fits perfectly on the GF9 Base.
2. Used "Create Follower" from the G9 Developer Tools with the garment object selected. Still fits perfectly and follows even extreme poses.
This is where the problems start - no matter how I save the garment, it is "destroyed" when I want to use it with Victoria 9: I get poke throughs and the chest area is pulled closer to the body and pulled down at the same time. I tried the following:
3 A) Just saved the garment right after "Create Follower" as usual as "Figure/Prop Asset". Ouch!
3 B) Used the "Transfer Utility" (Source Gf9 as "Current") after "Create Follower" and saved. Screech!
3 C) Just used the "Transfer Utility" (Source Gf9 as "Current") and saved. Ew!
It seems that I have overlooked or forgotten 1 or 2 steps. I hope the experts here can help me connecting the dots.
Some addtitional information:
DAZ Version 4.21.0.5
all Updates loaded
distributable project
Thanks in advance!
Update 02.01.22: Scroll down the page to my entry, which starts with a big "Solved", if you're curious about the solution
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Comments
Well, it might not be the right way, but for G9 clothing I just use transfer rigging right after import.
A) If the clothing is modelled to G9 base I just use transfer right away.
B) If the clothing is modelled to a shape, e.g. G9 female base, then in transfer rigging I use current, and in options tick 'Reverse Source Shape from Target'.
And then when saved, saved as a follower.
You may find useful information here https://www.daz3d.com/forums/discussion/597726/genesis-9-clothing-questions-answers#latest
Thank you felis, I'm just working on an other project and will try it tomorrow (it's 16.30 here in germany ;-)
Thank you Richard, but ...
.... as already mentioned, I have read Mada's thread several times. If I try hard, I could probably recite the texts by heart ... backwards
Nevertheless, thank you for your answer!
Hi Pushee-Ri,
The problem is the auto-generated shape for Victoria9 on your clothing. As you know, when you load your clothing and then change the character's shape (say to Victoria 9), DS automatically generates the Victoria 9 shape for the clothing. Often, this autogenerated shape has issues (such as those described by you). To get around this problem, you need to 'fix' the shape in an external modelling program and then use Morph Manager to import and overwrite the Victoria 9 morph with your corrected version. What is super important is that you must use the exact name of the morph/shape that your are trying to replace. In this case, it would be "Victoria9_body_bs_Body" (without the parentheses). You will often have to do this 'fix' for many of the other shaping morphs that are dramatically different (i.e. Large Breasts, Voluptous, etc...) from the base shape if you want your clothing to look good on other characters.
If you own zBrush, this fix is pretty easy to do. Basically,
(1) load Genesis 9 base,
(2) load your clothing,
(3) make sure both are set to base resolution.
(4) Change the shape of Genesis 9 base (to Victoria 9), so that the clothing also changes.
(5) "Send to zbrush" with deformation box checked (send both the figure and clothing at base resolution).
(6) in zbrush select the clothing (subtool) and make your corrections using a combination of the standard brush and smoothing brush. Note: I like to use the masking tool, so that I can have precise control over the regions that I change.
(7) GoZ back to Daz Studio where you will want to overwrite the original "Victoria9_body_bs_Body" shape in the clothing. Some of the tutorials you have watched should have the exact boxes to change on the import (Sorry, I am not in front of my Daz computer so I can't give you the specific details).
Note:
Once back in Daz Studio, I like to export out the corrected shape as an obj file (at base resolution). I do this step in case something goes wrong, or I want to make some additional small tweaks/corrections.
Make sure that no other morphs are active when you go to zbrush, otherwise these changes will be incorporated into that shape/morph and result in unexpected problems (i.e., weird shapes).
Here is my suggestion, which works for me:
Daz Studio will use Auto Follow (not to be confused with Auto Fit) to make the garment fit unique character shapes like Victoria 9. This will be fairly successful for shapes that are not too extreme, like Victoria 9. It it doesn't fit perfectly, your recourse is to create your own custom morph for the garment to fit that particular character shape.
Thank you very much for your suggestions - but I have not found a solution ... yet.
It's about 04.00 here in Germany and I like to start my working day with projects I still have to finish (I have to finish a new package today, test it and submit it to my provider). Therefore, just a few brief remarks. I will try to provide more information in the course of the day.
@felis:
Tried your suggestion, but it don't worked for me. Can You really use a saved clothing object the way you described with GF9 Base AND Victoria 9 and other G9 "dialed" characters? In this case I must have missed something.
@Rascal3D:
Thank you for your effort and the great explanation! Sounds like the good, old JCM stuff ... and that is something I have never needed for my GF8 projects. Is creating (or better: rigging) clothes for GF9, Victoria 9 etc. really that complicated? But maybe we are talking about different things. I will try to post some screenshots later today (via website link).
@barbult:
Thank you for your advice! I did a quick test - and the result was a little better (but the chest area still looks strange). Normally I try to avoid this "smoothing modifier" thing (or at least use very small values) because it slows down the programm / the display of a scene too much.
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As mentioned earlier, I will provide more information later today.
Often you have to exit Daz Studio and restart it and reload G9 and the garment before you can really evaluate the result of the saved asset. Don't give up on your result until you have tried that.
As promised, here is a link to a website with screenshots and additional information:
UPDATE 02.01.22: I deleted the temporary website because this thread is solved (scroll down a bit)
It seems I either have a thinking error (or two or three) .... or it really is much harder to rig garments for GF9 than for GF8.
@barbult:
Thank you! I often use that trick ... but in this case it didn't bring any improvement.
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Happy New Year to all! Maybe next year will reveal the secret of the GF9 clothing
Are you modelling towards G9 base or G9 female base?
If not G9 base you must use reverse source shape from target.
Hi felis,
I use the G9 female base for modelling and followed your suggestions from above. You mentioned that this simple way works well for you.
The only explanation I have at the moment as to why it doesn't work for me is: there must be a step that is so obvious that it is not mentioned or I do something (based on my experience with GF8) that is not recommended while dealing with GF9.
Here is a step-by-step explanation of how I implement your suggestion:
1) import the garment object made for G9 female base
2) Select Edit -> Object -> Transfer Utility ...
3) Select "Genesis 9" as source and set "Current" as Source Item Shape
4) Select the object as target and "Default" as Target Item Shape
5) Select "Bodysuit Loose Template" as Projektion Template
6) Under "Options" mark "reverse source shape from target", select "Fit to Source figure", "Parent to Source figure" and "Add Smoothing Modifier"
7) Put the Content Type to "Follower" and accept
8) Save the garment object as "Support Asset" -> "Figure / Prop Asset" with "Set Compatibilty Base" set to "Genesis 9" and "Set Compatible" with set to "Genesis 9 / Base" (thats the save preset for me)
And after all I get that botched garment from my Screenshots when I load it for Victoria 9
Happy New Year to you! I think this will be my last entry this year
@barbult:
At 0:46 J. Darling suggests in his video that it is better to use the G9 base instead of a GF9 shape for rigging new clothes. Other users here on the forum (not here in the thread) have pointed out that it does not matter which shape (G9 Base, G9 Masculine, G9 Feminine) is used to model the garment. After my experience with the GF8 - and based on that advices - I used the G9 Ferminine shape. Hmmm ... OK - no comment on that advices
Even though J. Darling uses a tight-fitting garment and my garment prototype is extremely loose, I followed his instructions. For those who haven't seen the video yet: It's about "converting" clothes modelled for G9 Feminie shape back to G9 Base.
Due to my extremely loose clothing, I didn't really get a perfect fit for the G9 Base ... but for testing it was OK. After some file savings, exporting, re-importing and "transfer utilities", I finally have something that seems to fit Victoria 9 (even though the garment is modelled for G9 Base). It's the 1st day of the new year and normally the brain is a bit sluggish on this day. That's why I forgot what steps I took to save the garment.
I will try later today or tomorrow to create a new test prototype based on the G9 Base shape to provide you with more and better information.
1st conclusion of this thread: It seems to be "easier" (or at least better) for rigging to create new garments for G9 using the G9 Base (i.e. the first "character" that appears when you open the "Genesis 9" folder) than the "gendered" (morphed) versions like GF9 or GM9.
More information to follow soon - when my brain is working a bit better again
Another step towards the (probable) solution of the problem of this thread
I've created (like mentioned this morning) a new prototype of my garment (originally developed for the GF9 shape) of my garment for the G9 Base character (the one that shows up once you open the "Genesis 9" folder).
After I had rigged it with the "Transfer Utility" and saved it as a follower, I was able to load it - without any problems!! - for Victoria 9. Eureka! The garment also follows morphs such as "Body Thin", "Body Heavy", "Body Emaciated", "Proportion Height" or others.Yippie-Ya-Yay!
For a final test, I will create some "dialed" V9 models (size, weight, etc.) and check how the new garment behaves when loaded onto these characters (new scene for each test). When the garment stands this tests, I will (like promised) create a HTML or PDF tutorial.
SOLVED
After some final tests with "dialed" and saved GF9 models, I would like to thank all participants in this thread - especially barbult - for their suggestions and tips!
As promised, I have created a .pdf file on the topic (hope the upload as attachment works)
For the curious, here is an excerpt of the file:
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The whole problem ultimately boils down to 2 points that you need to consider:
1. Avoid the "gender trap"
The best and easiest way to model clothing that will later fit the GF9 Base, Victoria 9 and all "dialed" GF9 shapes is to use the Genesis 9 Base character. (i.e. the one that shows up once you open the "Genesis 9" folder). When you have created your garment for Genesis 9 Base, you can import the object and use the "Transfer Utility" in the usual way to rig your work. Once you have saved the garment as a "Follower" you can use it with any GF9 character and shape you want.
Step by Step:
• Modell your garment to fit the Genesis 9 base character
• Load the Genesis 9 base character and import your garment
• Be sure that nothing is selected in the "Scene" pane and open the "Transfer Utility" (Main menu ➔ Edit ➔ Object ➔ Transfer Utility ...)
• Select "Genesis 9" as source and choose "Current" as "Item Shape" (Source). You maybe can use "Default" as "Item Shape", but the "Current" works for me well.
• Select your garment as "Target" ("Default" shape).
• Select a "Projection Template" like "Bodysuite Loose Template" or "Bodysuite Tight Template"
• Mark the option "Add Smoothing Modifier" and hit "Accept"
• Save your garment as a "Follower".
2. Avoid the G9 Bug (DAZ Version 4.21.0.5)
Make sure that nothing is selected in the "Scene" pane before you start the "Transfer Utility"! The Studio App freezes or crashes when the imported garment is selected. This may be fixed in future Studio versions.
If you follow these two pieces of advice, you should have no problems creating your own clothes for GF9 models and Victoria 9.
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I'm leaving this thread open in case anyone wants to comment or has questions.
Once again, thank you all!
Does this tutorial work also for trying to rig clothing items to G8?
It looks so.