which of these pcs would be better for use with Daz?
michellecelebrielle
Posts: 264
My old processor (AMD phenom 9550) is fried, and since I only have 32-bit windows and 4gb memory I was thinking it might be more prudent to get a new system. I cannot affor the top spec processors, and since I don't know anyone who could make up a computer for me now I will have to go with the limited options provided by a store that we have locally (so I can take it back if there's any problems).
So, do I go for:
Lenovo 4430-31 desktop pc - £499.99
Processor: Intel Core i5 2320 (3 GHz, 6 MB cache memory)
Operating System: Windows 7 Home Premium 64 bit
RAM: 8 GB, DDR3, 1333 MHz
Graphics Card: Intel HD Graphics
Hard drive: 1 TB, 7200rpm, SATA2
USB ports: 6
Optical disk drive: DVD RW
Memory card reader: Yes
Modem/ Ethernet: 10/100/1000 GB ethernet
WiFi: 802.11 BGN
Keyboard and Mouse: Wireless
Size: 430x175x368 (LxWxH)
ASUS Essentio CM6730-UK007O desktop pc - £549.99
Processor: Intel Core i7 2600 (3.4 GHz, 8 MB L3 cache)
Operating System: Windows 7 Home Premium 64 bit
RAM: 4 GB
Graphics Card: Intel GMA
Hard drive: 1 TB
USB Ports: 8
Optical disk drive: DVD RW
Memory card reader: 6 in 1
Modem/ Ethernet: 10/100/1000
WiFi: -
Keyboard and Mouse: Wired
Size: 560x250x525mm (WxHxD)
I know the processor is likely to be better in the ASUS, but it has less RAM. So, can anyone make any comments about which would be better? because of the extra RAM (and the price) I'm thinking of the first one, but I thought I'd have a second option on hand too.
Thanks for any posts.
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Comments
As you are quoting prices in £, so are in the UK, I would reccomend this company to design your own ideal PC
http://www.pcspecialist.co.uk/
The machine I am currently using I had built 6 years ago, and it is still going strong with no problems, apart from the fact it is now sadly in need of replacing as it is underpowered for todays apps. It has worked very hard and is still the most solid build I have ever had. (I think I have only once bought off the shelf) since I started using PCs with windows.
RAM issues can prevent your processor ever delivering its full capability, and 4GB is on the low side, but it's also cheaper to upgrade RAM than a CPU, so you might want to consider what you can afford now and what you might update later. I personally wouldn't pay the extra for an i7 without also paying for 8GB RAM.
I pretty much agree... I got my current PC from pcspecialist last year - best value for money and the off-the-shelf builds are usually very reliable and can be delivered next day - or wait a month and get custom build to your precise spec (there are other websites that look cheaper, but customer reports suggest they're way more unreliable)
If you can afford an i7-2600K processor, it kicks butt (if it's too pricey, it's vital to get as good a processor as possible or you'll have lots of time to make cups of tea while waiting on PC to keep up, hehehe).
Probably standard on new machines these days, but 64bit operating system is pretty much essential for heavy usage (you work on a big scene in 32bit and you're asking for regular crashes)
I wouldn't go below 6GB RAM, but would ideally recommend 8GB minimum, anything less will impact on load speeds & render times (and also great if you do any gaming too)
Graphic card is not as important for DAZ than it is for gaming (and can be upgraded way easier than anything else) - something like a GTX570 is great for gaming and superb for DAZ, but this would only be a final "perk" if there's still money left over after setting the other items first.
Oh, and it might also be worth looking at a gamer case like the "Cooler Master"... all those fans keep things nice and ventilated when doing lengthy renders.
* edit * - but if it's got to be one of the two mentioned in the post, as DWG said, the second one but upgrade to 8GB RAM.
Thank you for the replies. I have taken a quick look at PCspecialist, and if I have more money I would probably buy something from them, but I'm having to borrow some and repay it as things stand at the moment.
Judging from what you've said it sounds like the better option of the two is the i7 processor, and upgrade the RAM; I'll probably think it over for a couple more days before committing to a purchase, but thank you for your replies and suggestions.
If paying for it will be a difficulty, get the cheaper one and don't stress yourself. Just make sure that the one you end up with can take upgrades later on, resources permitting. Intel graphics chips are not ideal in a desktop, but they're cheap. If you can add more memory and a better graphics card a year down the road, then great. Either one is bound to be better than what you had, right? :coolsmile:
I could be wrong about this, but it seems to me that I have seen people talking about some graphics cards not working as well with studio as others. I can't for the life of me remember which cards are not happy with daz though! Meh!
I wouldn't take the one with Intel GMA graphic card because it's a very low end card and it may not meet the minimal OpenGL requirement for DS. You may also encounter problem with viewport navigation unless some people could give a testimony that there is no problem with it
The Intel HD graphic even if it still a low end graphic card is many generation ahead and is latest Intel IGP and delivers far more better performance
That was something I was wondering about, since I'd seen comments on other sites about the GMA. However, no one here had mentioned it until you, so thanks for that.
That was something I was wondering about, since I'd seen comments on other sites about the GMA. However, no one here had mentioned it until you, so thanks for that.
Not familiar enough with it to comment, but I certainly wouldn't recommend a very low end card.
people don't realize how simple (and much cheaper) to build your own PC. I started with Antec 1100 case($75) , ASUS P8Z68-V LE motherboard( $120), Intel i7 2600k processor($300), 16 gb ram($75), rocketfish 500w power supply($70), zotac gtx 460 graphics card(which I already had) and the most important part kingston hyper x 120 gb solid state drive($129) with a wd 1 terabyte for storage.
Worked out to roughly $800 CAN for a retail $2000 PC!
It took me 2 hours to put together(and I am not a geek) and with the solid state drive is blazingly fast.
Anybody can do it. Just some thoughts.:-)
I did it for my previous machine, didn't for the current - I priced it and couldn't beat the price from Dell (probably because i7s were new at the time). I also wouldn't do it again for any CPU that has me physically seating the heatsink on the die - delicate, expensive pieces of silicon and my impaired coordination don't make a good combination!
I'd also do that, but not everyone can do it. And that is a good thing also to get a 3 year warranty on a PC when you don't know much about it so that in case you have problem you just have to bring it back and let people do the job for you
@mishwish
I personnaly would buy the Lenovo. And the i5 is a good processor and there is not so much difference in rendering time with the i7.
The Asus could be a good bet if the GMA works OK. I've checked DAZ's spec for the graphic card and it says OpenGL 1.6 required but I'm not sure it's correct because I recall that it was rather OpenGL 2.1. But you could open a ticket to the support to be sure
You also should ask the vendor for the GMA Model and it's specs and check it's OpenGL capabilities. Intel made many GMA models so it could meet DAZ minimal requirement and be OK. The only thing I could find about the chip is that it uses shared memory. So it means that you'll already lose up to 512 Mb RAM that will go to the graphic. If you plan on buying a better card later that could be the better choice provided that it works with DAZ
Well, anybody CANNOT do it. If you have the knowledge and skill, then certainly this is a good option for you. I for example surely would not be able to do something like that. I could buy the parts, but that´s about it. Put them together - that´s something I will never be capable of. I would not even know what parts I should actually buy - what CPU is suited for 3D, how much RAM I need, which graphic card... So from my point of view you definitely ARE a geek (no offense), if you were able to achieve something like this.
I probably say the Lenovo, 50% more Ram will improve performance alot more than 5-10% more CPU.
You could use a decent video card upgrade for either though, wont make much (if any) difference to rendering time but it will improve viewport performance quite substancially, No need to go crazy though, even a budget card will to better job than on-board.
Remember to look out for upgradability in both systems, Make sure you have a 16x PCI-E slot at least and possibly unused PCI-E connectors on the Power Supply unit.
That said, Asus make some pretty damn good boards, but I dont know what Lenovos use.
Thank you for all the comments and suggestions too. I have found out that the people who fixed my parents' pc can make pcs to order. I will be calling them on Tuesday (bank holiday weekend in UK atm) and asking them for some quotes based on what people have said here. Depending on what the price comes back as I may be able to get the kind of pc I would prefer anyway, but it's good to know that the lenovo would still be a lot better than the current pc I have (which I can't use at all no because it crashes as soon as i try to do anything).
So thank you everyone for your time and expertise, it's much appreciated.
Being from the States, I'm not totally sure what parts you're able to get for what price overseas; but, I did a quick currency conversion and 499 pounds is approximately 788 USD. For a lot less than that I built this box
AMD FX8150 on an Asus M5A97 mobo - $284
16gb DDR3-2000 RAM - 78
Onboard audio & LAN
RADEON HD7770 Vid Card(1gig version) - 129
2tb seagate barracuda for storage(had SSD already) - 105
CoolerMaster HAF912 Mid-tower case - 65
Diablotek 600W PSU - 30
Antec Kuhler Box Heatsink - 49
It's a monster for rendering compared to my 2 yr old AMD Phenom 9800 based box and can hit 400k s/s in LuxRender. Which produces a 1980x1020 - 3000 pass render in like less than 4 hours. For rendering in 3Delight; I guess you could chop some cost off using a less expensive vid card.
All in all, it would depend on what the OP is looking for out of a computer. There are, also, several subsequent questions to be asked. Do you just render the occasional hobbyist render? Are you looking to eventually go the Reality/LuxRender route? How high of quality are you looking to get out of your renders? Are you looking into content creation or just art? Is time spent rendering an issue or can you let them just chug along? When not using D|S what are you using your computer for? Gaming at all?
FWIW, an old maxim I was taught many years ago still holds true. There is not such thing as too much memory. No such thing as too much hdd space. No such thing as too fast of a processor. I'd spend the extra bucks for the SandyBridge, slap in double the ram and trash the onboard video and get at least something in the radeon hd7000 generation.
If something like my build is affordable and you CAN'T put it together yourself, you can easily take the box full of parts to your local computer shop and pay them an hour of labor to put it all together for you and still come out with enough cash for dinner.
I have asked the local company we used to fix the family pc, and they have come back with a quote based on the basic specs i gave them. It's more expensive than the store-bought pc's but would cost a bit less than a similar spec from pcspecialist.
ATX Tower Case - I prefer the look of the CATAR-63011-TH
Intel 1155 Motherboard
Intel 1155 Core i5 Processor - Sandybridge
8gb DDR3 Memory
DVD-RW
2gb VGA Graphics DVI/HDMI/VGA - either NVidia GT640 or M640 range
1TB Sata 3.5” Hard Drive
Windows 7 HP 64BIT
Ethernet and WiFi enabled.
Is there anything else I should check with them? I have already ruled out the i7 processor, because it's way too out of my price range at the moment.
I haven't done a price comparison on individual parts, but you need to factor in VAT (sales tax) at 20%, so your effective budget would be less.
Don't be fobbed off with a 640, price wise there's barely a different to the previous gen 550 (about a tenner) and are heck of a lot less powerful (comparison of 550 to 640). Check on what power supply they intend to slot in the machine as well as you can get some really nasty PSU's not a lot of cash, you'll want branded such as Coolermaster, OCZ or Antec, Corsair simply don't do cheap (read value) PSU's. I've used OCZ (in my newly upgraded 3930K skt 2011 machine) and Antec (in my HTPC) and don't hesitate in recommending them.
Just curious how much that totalled up to? I spec'd up a PC to see how close I could get to £550 -
Microsoft Windows 7 Home Premium w/SP1 £79.76
Seagate 500GB 3.5" SATA-III 6Gb/s Barracuda £50.00
Gigabyte GTX 550 Ti 1GB GDDR5 £87.99
Samsung SH-222BB 22x DVD±RW £12.99
Asus P8H77-M LE H77 £69.30
Intel Core i5 3450 3.1GHz Socket 1155 (Ivybridge) £146.99 (if you're not going to bother to overclock, retail includes HSF)
Corsair 8GB (2x4GB) DDR3 1333MHz £30.77
Coolermaster Elite 334U Case £32.20
OCZ ModXStream Pro 500W Modular PSU £49.98 (lower powered version of what I use)
Total £559.98 (includes VAT and Delivery, all from ebuyer)
I've found when spending this kind of cash ebuyer have sent it next day, at £50 the hard drive is about a fiver more expensive on average. The GPU chosen above may only have 1GB of RAM but it's faster, the 640 you've been spec'd will only have GDDR3, this speed difference between the GPU and the RAM will make a bigger difference than the extra 1GB of GDDR3. May only have a 500GB drive but adding to this is easy.
As for warranty? There's longer warranties on just about everything (except the hard drive) than your average shop bought PC (which is normally a year without having to cough up extra) as the RAM and CPU have life time warranties and the rest will bounce between two and three years.
Thank you, but having had a problem in the past with a laptop I would like to get it from somewhere that at least has a store local to where I live so I can return it if necessary (we live in quite a rural area). The quote came back at around £650, including their labour costs. I will ask them about the GTX-550 because there's not much price difference. I'll ask about the power supply as well.
I don't have all that much technical knowledge regarding computers, but for the price am I better going for the lenovo rather than this custom-pc I got the quote for, and upgrading the graphics card in that?
In all fairness I live in a reasonably rural locale myself in County Durham but I've never had any real issues with buying parts (or returning them). My first custom built PC was pretty much a case of buying the parts and took them to a local PC shop who built it (and installed the OS) for a small fee (for me it was £20).
The only problem I've come across in the past with pre-built systems is that by all means go for one as they can prove good value for money but in my experience you have to keep an eye on the PSU of such machines as they generally are only good enough to power the spec that they came with (Acer and Dell are particularly guilty of this sort of thing in my experience, not sure about Lenovo though but I wouldn't put money on them not doing the same thing).
Thinking about it you might actually be better off spending a bit extra and going for the custom build because if Lenovo do only put PSU's in that are just good enough for the spec then you'd probably end off spending roughly the same due to fact you'd have to spend money on the GPU and a new PSU anyway. Just make sure they don't use generic/no name brands.
So try and get them to use anything from Corsair, Kingston, Patriot, Crucial, Mushkin or G-Skill for the RAM, all of which do value brands for not a lot, OCZ, Coolermaster, Antec, Corsair, Bequiet or Seasonic for the PSU and try avoiding any hard drive from the Hitachi Deskstar range, cheap? yes but they still attract the nickname of Deathstar because they have nasty tendency to blow up unexpectedly (I've seen two go belly up in computers that had been less than six months old in a school).
Okay, thanks for the advice. I'll email them and query these things and ask for a revised quote. I think they will come back with a higher price, but the site I was going to buy my pc from originally doesn't do the kind of pc I obviously need.
They really shouldn't as there's virtually no difference in price on some things (such as the RAM from generic stuff to value branded such as Corsair's value range) and you can get some decent value hard drives from the likes of Samsung (recently bought out by Seagate) with the 1TB Spinpoint F3 being only a couple of quid more expensive, £59.99 to the Hitachi's £57.99 (sometimes less depending on where they source the drives from) but far superior in reliability.
The only place where they might try and jack up the price is in regards to the PSU, the low quality ones generally cost around between £12 and £22 and purport to offer between 400 to 700W and actually offer nowhere near that. The one mantra is - Do you want a £22 PSU with dubious origins powering £600 worth of hardware? bearing in mind if it goes bang while the PC is on it could take out virtually the entire PC (though if it does go I suppose they'll have to honour the warranty, after trying to squirm their way out of it no doubt). If they do try it on I'd cut back on the hard drive to 500GB (and unless you're storing films on there) it's surprising how long it takes to fill to reduce costs (albeit only by about a tenner though) and adding more (when you can afford it) is one of the simpler upgrades (outside of adding more RAM).
I'm interested in what they come back with.
I have sent off an email to the company with the suggestions from the thread, so I will wait and see what they some back with.
Thanks for all the help so far, everyone, i do appreciate it :)
Canny lad (or lass)!
(I grew up in Bishop Auckland)
At first glance, I'd recommend the ASUS with the i7 processor (faster core speed and a bigger cache), but ONLY if you're planning on increasing its RAM -- 4 GB is NOT enough.
Thanks, but I've decided to go with the custom pc now :)
In regard to the PSU, especially, is there any reasonably priced one that's recommended?
The only thing that I can see wrong with that reply it the type of PSU they are using both those makes have less than stellar reputations with people reporting them going belly up as soon as their systems begin to come under load (and only cost £15-£20). A decent alternative would be the Coolermaster Elite Power 500W at £32 or the OCZ 500W CoreXStream at £35. True that might push their price up a bit but these PSU's will deliver the wattage that they're advertising and 500W PSU should be more than man enough for the system you're looking at.
Heck I'm running a six core socket 2011 3930K (with a Zalmann 9900 HSF), 16GB RAM, a factory overclocked 7870PCS+ GPU, a Cretaive Titianium soundcard, a 256GB SSD (Sandisk Extreme), one 1TB and two 320GB HDD's (Seagate's), a DVD drive & four fans all off a 700W OCZ ModXstream PSU (plus keyboard and mouse, keeping in mind that these also draw power) without much of a hitch.
DWG - lad and only six miles or so away in Crook (just moved in a couple of months back from Willington, lost a great view but gained 32Mb net access, not sure which I prefer :) ).
Lucky you, we get 1.4 mb.