DDR4 or DDR5 for DAZ?
Bohor
Posts: 74
in The Commons
Dear people, soon I'll buy a new pc, only I'm still hesitating between DDR4 and DDR5 memory.
Normally i would choose DDR5 but a while ago I've read somewhere that it would be less stable than DDR4 for using in DAZ/S.
Are these bad rumors or is there some truth to it??....
Daz 3D is part of 
Connect
DAZ Productions, Inc.
7533 S Center View Ct #4664
West Jordan, UT 84084
Licensing Agreement | Terms of Service | Privacy Policy | EULA
© 2024 Daz Productions Inc. All Rights Reserved.
Comments
I searched, and something is going on with DDR5. In most cases, it seems to have something to do with the Adler Lake Processors—a wide variety of Z690 motherboards Brands having this problem. With different memory brands
Assuming you're using your PC for iray renders, why do you need fast memory on the motherboard? I would suggest you spend your pennies on the biggest GPU you can afford. The speed and size of your GPU's memory is far more important for iray.
Cheers,
Alex.
I went with 64 of 4 since as most say Vram is more important. Spent the $$ on RTX 4090..
Thank you for your answer. I knew there was something going on with DDR5. You are talking about the Z690 motherbords, I have the Z790-P on my list so I don't know if there could be problems with. Anyway, I'll play on safe and go further with the Z790-P and DDR4 and the 13th generation of Intel processors.
I'm not fixated on DDR5. It's because the price difference is not that big anymore, since DDR5 came on the market. Don't worry, the 4090 is on my list. I hope to remark the difference with my 1070/8gig, which is still on my 9,5 y.o. pc ;-)
RAM is important in that sense that you need enough RAM to support your VRAM. The scene is uncompressed in RAM, but textures are compressed into VRAM. Mesh data is not compressed into VRAM.
Iray has a compression setting, and depending on how strong it is, you can wind up with a very wide gap between VRAM and RAM use. This setting only effects VRAM, not RAM, but it does allow you to cram more stuff into a scene with the VRAM you have. If you take adavantage of that, you might actually run out of RAM before VRAM if you are not careful.
So how much RAM you need for the 24gb GPU will vary depending on how you build your scenes. Highly subdivided Genesis and props can quickly add to the memory you need, this cannot be compressed and so is present in both RAM and VRAM. Textures are the wild card. If you prefer to turn down Iray's texture compression, then you will naturally use more VRAM, and will probably not have an issue. But if you use the default settings, they are pretty strong as basically every texture in modern Daz products is heavily compressed. So if you use a lot of high quality textures with these settings, you might start hitting your RAM limit before you reach your VRAM limit. The number of unique textures in the scene adds up in memory.
A user made a video where they crashed Daz before reaching their 3090's VRAM limit. They were at about 17gb I believe when it crashed, and they had at least a dozen Genesis 8 characters in the scene. They realized they were crashing because they ran out of their 64gb of RAM.
So my advise when getting the RAM, get what fits the budget. As for the DDR5 thing, could it be an early adopter issue? Anyway, you can start with 64, as that might very well be fine. BUT I would suggest leaving empty RAM slots in your motherboard just in case you find you need more than 64 at a later time. That way you can simply buy another 64 and pop them in. If you use smaller modules and fill all your board slots with 64gb of RAM, only to later find you might need more, then you have kind of screwed yourself a bit. You would need to completely replace the RAM modules you original bought, and that would be much more expensive.
Good point in regards to RAM expansion.
I would definitely go DDR5, as DDR4 will NOT support newer mobos! So if you want to kill your upgrade path, go with DDR4! I myself need to upgrade, but I would need a new mobo/DDR5 just to upgrade my CPU, sucks but it is necessary!
EDIT: Looks like your decision has been made, I would have gone with DDR5, but then again, I use my PC as an all-purpose machine as I do much more than use DAZ, though that's what I got my 3090 for mostly...
The shop that built my PC recommended 4. I mostly use it for DS and PS. Otherwise I can use a laptop or tablet.
At this early stage of the game in the DDR5 lifecycle I'd go for the cheapest available components, so DDR4.
+1, except that I would choose the best DDR4 (within reason), or did it already for my next rig.
I went DDR5 as I spend as much time gaming as rendering and there it makes a difference.
Whichever way you go don't assume that you'll be able to use all four ram slots without issue or that you'll be able to add another set of ram later without problems. Ram capacity and speed are increasing to the point that the memory controllers on some of todays CPUs can't keep up.
As an example my 10700k will run 4 x 8gb ddr4 at xmp speed. I had it running 2 x 32 and 2 x 8 for a while without issues. My 12400 will run 2 of the same 8gb sticks at xmp speed but is only stable with 4 sticks at default speed or with the memory controller in gear 2 (slower) mode.
Check the QVL or qualified vender list for whatever motherboard you choose to see what RAM kits have been tested with your CPU of choice. Stick to the listed kits/configurations or something very close. There's usually a list under support on the product page.
Going DDR5 also allows use of the newish 96gb kits (2 x 48) which is handily four times the vram of a 4090. I went for a faster 2 x 32gb kit. 4 x DDR5 seems like an issue with current AMD and Intel platforms unless you run it at that slow a speed that any advantage over DDR4 would be lost.
My Z490 has all four slots filled to the max of 128 GB. I have heard, about not being able to use the four slots for memory. I started with 16 GB, went to 32, then 64, then maxed it out. I play a lot of games. I Never had a problem again I'm not overclocker.
Thank you for your explanation Outrider, all very interesting. It was/is my intention to get 128gb immediately. Looking further on other forum it seems that the DDR5 trouble special was a problem when it was in combination with the Z690 motherboard from Asus. That I want 128gb is to be sure that the complete 24gb of the 4090 can be used if necessary. It's not that I want 20 characters in my scene, max 5 or 6 (genesis 8). I only want to avoid that i've to spent hours with 'scene optimizer' as I've to do now with my gforce1070. Is this the video you was talking about?
Daz 3D : How Many Genesis 8 Models Fit On A RTX 3090? - YouTube
Thank you for your opnion. No I don't made any decision yet, try to collect information as much as possible ;-) I've an idea that most of the motherboards still use ddr4 but I can be wrong of course...
Thank you for your opinion. Eh ... ram sticks of 48gb? That's the first time I hear about... If you have problems when you use your 4 slots, is that because of overclocking maybe?
Thank you for your opnion. I assume that you use ddr4, those 128gb, everything fine in Daz too?
I thought that was weird as well and never heard of it but they do sell it.
OK, well in any event good luck with your purchase, buying/building your own PC is a really research-heavy chore experience as you have to shop for components that will last you several years!
Not a problem in the world with any program I use, including games. Yes, it's DDR4. People were telling me it would create an unstable system to use all four memory slots before I built this system.
Filling all 4 DIMM slots causes system crashes | TechPowerUp Forums
Fair enough my last system lasted me 6 years. All I did was double the ram from 32 to 64 & upgrade the 1080ti to 2080TI...
You're welcome. Technically anything over the stock speed of your ram kit is overclocking even when it comes with an XMP profile to set higher speeds with one click in the bios. My 2 x 32gb kit runs at 4800 stock and 6600 with XMP enabled.
Higher speeds, more sticks and greater capacity put more strain on the memory controller built into the CPU. K series chips tend to do better in this regard, if you look at the QVL list for your board you'll see that they list different ram configs for k and non k processors.
I was interested in the newer 2 x 48gb kits as they offer more than enough ram for my rendering needs at ok speeds for gaming and should be pretty solid stability wise. In the end, as I rarely max out 64gb in Studio with the 4090 I went for a smaller capacity but faster kit which brings advantages in gaming performance.
Z490 boards with 'k ' CPUs are pretty robust for memory support unless you go for crazy speeds, mine ran 80gb of mixed ram across 4 slots at 3200mhz without issue. With the newer stuff it's possible to buy a combination of parts that looks like it should work out of the box but won't, especially if going DDR5.
Hence the QVL list suggestion, let someone else figure out what works.