Daz Studio Pro BETA - version 4.9.0.21!
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The last two sentances are contradictory, because the first one is incorrect. The encryption is only transparent to the customer if you're doing it via the OS's native file system encryption. At which point the text on my directory listing is green (I'm using Windows), but otherwise my experience with the files is identical to the current situation, except I can't distribute them.
But that's not what you're doing. Instead I'm being blocked out of them. And frankly, as one of the customers who will notice they've been encrypted and I can't get into them, that matters to me. I don't frankly care that many people won't. Many people never use Morph Loader Pro. Many many people never use the weight mapping tools, the bone editing tools, the geometry hiding feature, the graft-merging feature (which is pretty nifty).
You could add those features without disrupting the majority of users. You could add features and change things for that majority without disrupting those things that are only useful for a minority of power-users.
Why are the power-users being swept away here?
One daz's engineer in that thread confirmed he's working on the possibility to download a ready to install package to install later on whatever computer. That computer will need to have your customer key and be "signed" (for that, DAZ Studio just needs to have been connected ONCE to internet to your account to get your customer key).
it's one real issue : it will be more difficult (but not impossible) to export bought content from DAZ Store to Poser. Poser (or whatever script) will not be able to decrypt the specific DAZ files detailling the content and how to use it. It will only have access to the raw files (maps) and to export from daz the mesh in .obj or whatever format DAZ export support.
So, it lets Renderosity as a more universal store to buy content for whatever software. But, Renderosity/RuntimeDNA/PoserWorld/... has the same problem with Piracy. It's obvious one day or the other, more store will try to use DRM, a DRM who works with DAZ Software and/or future Poser.
DRM is not only about end user, but also about competition between companies.
The company decision is that export is unaffected, that is as stated, both in the FAQ and by me. It is confirmed. That does not mean that the company will not change that at some future date that nobody can fortell.
You already quoted the answer on the other one. The part that is unanswered is what content and when. And again, I can't predict the future.
if the goal is to completely prevent all kind of piracy or really really complicate it, yes DAZ would be forced to go that way (the kind of HDCP over HDMI, full encryption bluray and criminalization of keys sharing insider readers/software the video industry got).
But it's a balance : just to complicate the sharing of DAZ Store package could be enough.
Now, it's just that crazy : someone buy once the content, lets DIM download everything, put it on a server somewhere, publish a torrent, youhouuuu ! it's way too easy.
After I started to look about that whole community, 3D contents, daz, poser, just by doing some searchs for informations, google lead me easily to forums, blogs and torrents links with mostly ALL the DIM packages for all recent contents. it's quite frightening.
The industry/politicians failed (or wanted to fail?) to prosecute theses websites, so they go to obfuscate stuffs (encryption).
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To be honest, I would prefer a TAGGING system : to TAG inside ALL files (in jpeg, in tiff, in dsf, duf, and so on), cryptographically the identity of the customer. The files would be still standard (a standard JPEG you open in gimp or photoshop), but it would be very difficult to remove your personal information from it without destroying the colors, contrast and all of the files. It would dether people to simply put their bought content on the internet and live from piracy.
But tagging is not a perfect technology for now, and it would needs Adobe and others companies to help the whole industry on a good tagging system : hard to remove the information but readable by standard softwares, letting people to create derivative works.
(of course licence about derivative work would still be an issue).
There is no easy solution.
I just hope DAZ will not abuse DRM.
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Apple removed DRM from music, because we all lived with CD (good quality, NO drm AT ALL). In a way, the industry couldn't put back the genie in the bottle. Steve Jobs knew that, he called to remove DRM from music.
But there is extensive and crazy DRM on ebooks, APPS (of course) and movies in Apple iTunes/iBooks store (and of course Apple Music and all new way to consume music, like streaming from others companies like Spotify, Deezer...). It's a real concern.
I was doing research for an assignment (mature student here) and I came across a point raised by the author of the book; the company (IBM forty years or so ago) were claiming they spent 50 million on security; one individula at the conference said it seemed to be 49 million on advertising and 1 million on travel and accommodation.
Security has long been known about, we're sill playing the same game with those wanting to steal our info: bigger lock, every time they find a key for that last lock.
1. It is transparent to the customer. You load the content exactly the same way you load it now. You pose, clothe, animate, apply shaders, change materials, morph, etc. None of that is affected.
2. You saying you want to read the files does not invalidate the fact that greater than 90% of the customers never will. Nor does it specify why you feel you need to be able to read the files.
3. This does not prevent you from using the rigging tools, building pose sets, light sets, shader sets, character presets, material presets, or creating morphs. It doesn't stop you from using transfer utility or autofit.
So what is your specific use case where encrypting the files prevents you from doing something?
Now that I didn't know, it makes a previous post I made, more interesting to me at least.
OK, I have finally read enough of this that I am going to ask a question that has been gnawing on me since page 3. DAZ_spooky, DAZ_Rawn and DAZ_Jon ... Why is there so much two stepping going on here with this? One minute we read its optional, then we read that all product will be shifting to connect. Then DAZ is going to this to help customers because we are stupid (Implied by the comments made by Spooky) followed by it will protect products from piracy. We, for the most part are grown men and women here, and obviously this is something that the company is going to do no matter how much the customers scream, yell drag their feet and say we don't want this, so just tell us and lets all move on.
Yes I am clearly frustrated with all of this, I haven't seen so much dancing since the last democratic and republican debates. I wrote this while irritated so I am sure that this post will disappear quickly, so feel free to reply via site mail if you like.
Roy
AKA
ShadowhawkOne
once downloaded, once your DAZ Studio WAS authenticated on your computer ONE TIME, you can use all your contents disconnected forever. DAZ only needs to obtain your customers encrypted keys from the store once to be able to decrypt content each time you use them. No need to be on internet all the time or each time your launch DAZ.
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and you can export content as usual from DAZ.
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DRM and encryption gives a lot of power to DAZ, for now they will not use that power to close DAZ Studio (you can export content or use the images maps in whatever software, but it will complicate life for Poser). But in the future ? But the future is always scary: we don't know what it will be. The day I'll not be able to mix, modify, change paid stuff for my personal not commercial use, well.. I'll stop to buy.
I have to prove I'm me after downloading it if for example I need to reinstall; that is a big different. Issues that cause one problem can and do cause others; not being able to use what I've bought is a serious issue; if I can't get online, I can't use something I've bought, downloaded and installed. I'm seeing legitimate customers being penalised. I accept it wont be happening often, but why should it happen at all?
This is a repost.
This is not a a Rant .. this is my resignation from buying Daz products once they have changed officially to daz 4.9 Or Daz connect/cloud encrypted only products.
I've been so unhappy about the announcement of the new changes at daz to the point it has thrown me into depression. Daz has always been my home outlet for creating fantasy worlds or for me to tell my stories. . with. the new changes and seeing how the new daz4.9 wanted to restructure my file system after I installed it. I would not have any Idea how to get Maya or Blender to work with daz connect models because as it is now I can access my 3d content in Maya through my Non Encrypted content files. & Daz Connect/cloud also bloated my Hard drive with 2 content directories. NO THANK YOU. so I uninstalled Daz4.9 and replaced my system with a shadow copy I had made to get my files back to the way they were, So I can say I TRIED Daz 4.9 &* what I learned is after that changes to Daz connect or cloud so will being able to access them the way I always had in my work flow with other software.. I've been a 8 year user & fan of Daz. But now I really hate the direction they took. but guess that is a way things are going, I was hoping daz would be different. But I'm not restructuring my PC drives for a software upgrade ever . there is 8 years 1013 gigs of stored content. Does daz have any idea how long it would take me to restructure that .. the alternative is to have 2 content drives.. No thanks.
So after feeling sorry for myself all night I started doing some research into Alternatives for 3d and I think I found something new I can work with besides Poser Pro. I figure if the future is that I'm going to have to be forced to use a cloud base software for my 3d and Illustration content by software company's then its going to be on my terms not theirs and I will do my speaking with my Wallet. It seems money is the only thing a company will listen too, instead of loyal long time users. crying foul. Daz3d you really have Offended me with this change.
Anyway I think found a new alternative for me to replace daz for some of my 3d needs and maybe save myself a few bucks too when it come to using figure for my 3d printed ceramics molds .. So if you are like me, this maybe will fit your needs as well. it is cloud based also and it will run on PC, android and Mac devices so when your sitting waiting for the bus for school you can be working on a new project on your Mobil device. the software Also allows for saving AutoCAD format which will save me a lot of time in converting models.
I'm going to keep looking for more 3d Alternatives , because I figure if I'm going to buy a 3d model I'm not going to be nannied on how I have to install it into my system or verify the item with encryption every time i want to add a new device or PC on my private Home network to access my content drives.I am not a computer DumAss . not to mention all the other laundry list of problems that Daz connects going to cause me in using the content . Daz has gone to far this time and I have spent way to much money on 3d content to be lumped up with the criminal elements of the web. . I have always been forthright and up front with daz 3d when it comes to using their products. I Gave credit for the products I used in my production animations. and if I was not sure about the legal issues on using their content for a project I contacted them to get the information I needed to use their content legally. I am not a criminal or a pirate . and I hate being Nannied or treated like I am after I have spent thousands of dollars on content here at daz. Once google asked me to verify my daz content for a Youtube video which was easy done with a screen short of my Sales receipt .. and that is all that should ever been needed for validation of a product.
This move by Daz3d has offended me to the core. . So Screw it. Daz has been fun but they have sucked the fun right out of 3d modeling for me with every new change they have made it has been slowly cutting out poser support. I paid for poser I did not pay for daz. So maybe a change to something new will bring back that excitement of 3d for me again . I have a regular 3d budget. so what 3d modeling site or company do I want to spend it at now that I won't be able to use Daz clound based content? I hate this new direct daz has made and I am going to protest it the only way I can. With my wallet! maybe my 100 bucks a month in sales is no big loss to daz3d.( check my Account records for proof.) . But some new company is going to welcome it I am sure. It seems the on;y thing companies listen to anymore is the money . so hear my money talk Daz or wave good buy to it.
So will 4.8.0.59 still work correctly if I delete this folder?
DAZ Vince has already said there are currently no products planned for Connect-only release.
I can't test the system; I've just finishing backing up again.
I was going to now actually try it, but if it's going to download and install everything again, I'll have to delete what I already have; the SSD only has 100GB of free space, and I don't like going close to capacity on them (it slows them down).
Suggestions, other than deleting everything (Yes I know I've backed it up).
Sure. Though anything installed will no longer be present.
On the computer that is cloud only, I moved the old directories to a USB 3 external drive. It took longer to copy the directory to the external drive than to download my content directory from my account. (YMMV)
There are at least 2 Blender addons that do read native DS...but I know one hasn't been updated in a while and I haven't played with the other...but they were/are dependent upon the unencrypted, readable files...and could still work for self generated content, but not morphs to the base figures.
Richard why you can answer it?
I can understand, Currently no. but future yes. then I ask DAZ Vince or spookeys or DAZ moderators,
how do you think, if they can decide it ,. when it will start, and which product you may (or hope to) release
as daz connect only? or
At current DAZ spookey and daz mans, think, "no we need not migrate any content as daz connect only. it is not for customer"?
I understand many man have said, about currently no product are planned .
then which product they may plan I ask if they can diced it. IF they may never change, there is no need discribe such thing.
or DAZ programmer modelator are not hope so? they do not hope migarate contents as DAZ connect only?
I just hope to know, their will. no need confrim, how daz decide or not.
Which, if in the described scenario (reinstalling from backup without access to the servers, for whatever reason), would still lock you out, correct? New OS install, so it won't have whatever magic is needed to decrypt without connecting.
Oh, wait.....we download a keyfile of some sort when we connect that one time. We can back that up too? And what if that file gets corrupted. Before, we might lose access to one corrupted package. Now, if THAT file gets corrupted, NO encrypted content will work.
And I keep seeing other DAZ staff talking about "it accounts for 90% of support tickets" and "90% will never notice the files are encrypted." Well, 90% of those 90% are the 'just trying it out cause it looked neat' crowd. The other 10% are your bread and butter, because they consistently spend in the store. Those 10% that WILL notice are the ones who edit files, rearrange directories, modify paths, and actually continue to use the product for years. That 10% probably spends 90% of the money that goes through the DAZ Store.
Can't find something? Why not actually put a metadata point into DIM that can be looked at when you right-click a product or show details that tells you the direct path to the main content it installed? Seems simple enough, but it isn't there.......Or maybe a search box for the Content Files pane that actually works? (i.e., it doesn't show the content icons for the search, but shows the FILE TREE for the search which you can then select from.....)
DRM is going to hurt DAZ. But you won't listen. We've shown countless history of how it's failed in the past.....why do you cling to it so?
I beleive that it's been said that a back up of the content will reisntall without needing to phone in, but in the worst case if you do have to go online in the bandiwdth for account activation seems to be very small so even a mobile account should not be strained, you would not need to rdownload your content.
I've spoken about it repeatedly, but just as the DAZ official replies keep getting swept away, I'm not surprised my own posts have as well. And yes, I haven't gone into detail, generally people don't care about the dorky details and I'm a little surprised I have to justify myself.
The two I use most heavily are
1) I perform edits directly on morph files to split up full body morphs I buy into eg: head/upper body/lower body, left/right, limbs/torso. Or isolating the face from the rest of a head morph that includes eg ears and head shape. I have a C# program I've written that is a great assist in this. The morphs may need clean up afterward, but a LOT LESS than if I tried to manually "undo" part of them, or bash Shrinkwrap and vertex groups into doing it for me.
I like the leg shape from one full body morph, the head from another? I'm not limited by the fact that they're FBMs. Most human characters have the heads as separate morphs, but "Monster" characters tend not to.
1 B) I've been looking at expanding this to basically "chopping off" a morphed limb or head or whatever (including rigging transformations) and turning it into a geograft for the base figure to just surgically apply the one body part. I'm not entirely sure what I'd do with this ability, but nobody thought people would be using morphs to correct joint bending, or to drive other morphs to correct a third morph. I'm sure I'd come up with something... except
2) Direct copying of morph files from eg G2F to G2M or vice versa (usually vice versa, most monsters come out for G2M not G2F). Not the morph transfer utility, it produces a different result that I'm not looking for in this situation, and is still a little glitchy anyways. This involves replicating the morph directory structure, copying the morph files over, and then batch editing them to point back to the correct figure.
2B) 1 combined with 2 happens pretty frequently. "Oh, the face transformation off that male werewolf is exactly what I need for my female dog-woman!" I don't want it to have the male face, I want it to have the deltas. Basically, I want my Genesis single-body solution back :D
This also works between props or clothing that have the same base mesh, but it doesn't come up as much except during my own dev cycle, where the files are obviously unencrypted.
Misc other things:
As other people have mentioned repeatedly, products occasionally go out with something odd in one of the DUF files, and it's a lot cleaner and preciser to just go in and fix it. And DAZ are not always quick about doing this themselves.
Doing a mass edit and conversion of material presets from one shader base to another. Perl scripts for the win, although I'm experimenting more with C# for this. All those collaborations in the store where I was on a DS/Poser light set project, I was doing this to convert from poser LT2s to studio lights. I do this sort of mass conversion from poser materials to HSS or Uber Surface as well, including more modern materials with node networks. This is easier to do from one studio format to another instead of from one program to another, but I still need to get into the files. Then it's push the button, and it whips through lightning fast.
This last point is, I think, going to be VERY interesting to me as I get settled into IRay. Also the reverse - turning IRay surfaces back into pure Uber Surface 2 presets to have better control over a 3DLight render.
EDIT:
I've also converted an item to G2M from G2F by hand fitting it to G2M, then copying the DUF etc and editing the DUF to replace the geometry, and then editing all the copied files to refer to the new DUF. It's very fast.
Yeah, it was mentioned that it would be a small file/check...and only if updates were available would it start getting into bigger data transfers.
Do you talking with your wallet that is is the on ly language Companies understand anymore,. I will continue to buy stuff here at daz until they Officially have changed their content to Dax connect instead of Zip files at that time. My shopping days here are done. Money talks and it walks and it can move to other shopping sites.. give me some incentive Daz to keep buying your products. Increased Product cost and now product key encryption.. is really not what I call incentive for continuing to buy products for Multi Software users like myself. No matter how much Hay you try to feed me its still Hay.
But don't take my word for it. Iets see how this all has worked out for daz sales ina year after they have made this change official . My bet is its going to work against Daz, not for them. Unfortunately Daz Studio was not the only software I was using the site content in . even though I have been finding a lot less poser compatable products . But it looks like the direction daz is heading for besides the cloud base content is but also Proprietary software content only as well ...
The good thing is I have been in 3d long enough to have a very very large 1 TB plus content Library to work with for a long time to come. So now thw question is going to be what can I spend the money I saved on from not buying 3d content at daz anymore.
With the money I'll be saving not spending at daz I can update my wardrobe again this year. I love buying Venus.com & Victoria secrets clothing. I just got some London jeans from VS for $50 in size 12 this week which I can actually wear myself..lol
Do it in the software instead of hacking the files. The results are at least as good, you can see what you are doing and are less prone to errors.
Poser files are not encrypted. No issues there at all,
Now as far as mass changes to files from DAZ Studio format to DAZ Studio format, there is API for that, so again, the DUF or DSF file do not need to be opened.
In none of your use cases do you actually need to open the DUF files to achieve those results.
I'm an infrequent user and peruser of the "What we want in the next version" threads, and certain things keep coming up: good cloth dynamics/collisions that can be applied to any mesh you can load (P5 pioneered a pretty workable system for that back in, what, '03?), and dynamic hair (LaMH and Garibaldi both have decent strands without physics properties now). These were first requested as features in the then-yet-to-be-seen DAZ|Studio 3, and have not happened yet. A good, or at least plausible and easy-to-use, physics engine for hard-body drop-and-bounce sorts of animations. Sometimes integration with new or popular render engines is brought up (iRay was an unexpected and delightful answer to much of this!) Someone asked this morning for support for high-resolution monitors, on which the on-screen text all but disappears. Allowing users to adjust UI text size would be a simple enough fix.
Yeah, about a third of the requests, or more, are for features that are already there but aren't as well publicized. I've even fielded one, maybe two, of those you-can-already suggestions myself. But hardly any of the things users ask for are ever implemented. I've never seen anyone ask for a DRM system there. Even most of the posting PAs seem to be against it. But guess what the 4.9 release is all about: cloud storage (might as well leave my files in the breakroom) and anti-piracy encryption (at which point the breakrooom sounds like a good enough plan, as I can't get the combination-lock open anyway... my purchases, since I can't use them, become FTGH for whomever can).
BLUF: Before the development team implement another shiney-happy-innovative toy to bump the model number forward one more peg, y'all need to look at what your customers actually want in your product!.
And, again:
(1) Not the point I was actually trying to discuss,
(2) My own damn fault if I lose content I relocate myself, as noted;
(3) Not the source of my particular continuing confusion;
(4) I entirely understand that all customer service can do in that case is to tell someone to download it again and put it where it was put by Daz, and that customers get irritated with that response; to which Customer Service can only say, as diplomatically as possible,
(5) see previous point 2.
Regarding the first issue of What I Was Actually Trying To Discuss: I still don't understand the relationship between what you've been saying here about Daz Connect vs DIM vs web delivery, and what Rawb is trying to do, and what Vince is saying. How do those work together?
And please, I do beg you, put to one side the issue of customers finding content they have moved around themselves, and instead make the connections between the things the three of you are saying more clear to me. I'm sure it's there; I'm just not getting it.
As for me, why I feel annoy such encrypting it should make me difficult to understand how each content work.
I use JSON editor often. eg, DAZ suddenly use Alias for pose controller about gen2F.
of course DAZ never clear said ,"we now use Alias , then it work as such etc"
I needed to change pose controller for my customized character. but when I check subcomponet,
there seems no sub controlelr,, why,, it is empty. then I serch dsf, then understand..
Hmmmm,, so Alias seems work as clone for real JCM . then hope to make Alias For my controller too.
to learn these things, I need to look and serch each file, then needed to open dsf, and check learn forumula
with DAZ dson document. It is not kind for me at all, I feel it is written for programmer, no custom user.
but I can learn JSON, then I read and leraned. (of course I need to say thank you, even though these document seems monster for me)
or sometimes, vendor actually offer miss formula product morph . I do not say which product missed forumula etc,
but if I could not check dsf directly, I can not find where is problem. then I could not report about product.
If I can check dsf directly, I did not need to wait the vnedor understand there is problem, and up-date.
if it is rocked as not to modify , I can not clear, where is problem and why it happen about such simple morph mistake.
hey,, I really can learn daz studio by tweaking and read DSON files, but if you rock about asset data,
I can not anymore, DAZ really like change often, then I hope to follow it. even though I am not vendor,
but just hope to learn, product I bought as real money , and hope to know why it work so. then try to use
the knowledge to improve my character or making contennt just for me!
I have never tried to download irregal copied product!! and not use such download site. such tools never!
This is a good question, please DAZ don't ignore it. I too want to know about this.................