Simple way of fixing snaggy teeth in G8 import results from HeadShop?
Hello again, It's been a year and I am still a 'new user', having acquired some skills and massively lacking others and still not got a powerful GeForce videocard to finally take this hobby to a next level. [Sigh]. Anyway, today's question is about teeth, horrifically snaggy ones:
Like the reliable but ultimately disappointing “Face Transfer” the bugfesty train wreck of a plugin called “HeadShop” produces faces that have near zero verisimilitude with the original source portraits (I am sure you would disagree being a morph slider wizard and/or facemap virtuoso and I am glad for you), but I am kind of past that and have abandoned all hope for a look-a-like with these stagnant, poorly developed plugins. Still, I have found a use for my top-5-worst-purchase decision "HeadShop" and that is producing wildly unconventional faces but having said that, I am not ok with the crazy snaggledy-snag teeth that accompany these odd faces (see piccie).
Is there a way to (easily) replace these horrific teeth with a standard set of (Gen8) teeth? I can’t seem to find it in morph sliders and DAZ shop products like “Teeth Master” and “Easy teeth” don’t seem able to fix this problem at all (at best they make the teeth 20% less snaggy mainly by just making these travesties of teeth smaller).
Thx y'all
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By the way: the source photos used did not show any teeth (mouth closed) but please don't tell me to contact the HeadShop developer cuz that is a thorny path
Hmm... snaggle-toothed like that, I don't think they could be fixed with Easy Teeth either though I'm pretty good at using ET... But there's a chance you may get them fixed with Blender or ZB if you know to use them, though that'll be pretty cumbersome. I ever did once with Blender to fix a similar case and it nearly took me 2 hours to just get a PoC 60%, then I gave it up...
I ever bought HeadShop OneClick2022 and that turned out to be my top 1 worst purchase. I did not request for refund but I never use it again, furthermore I've never got any update / fix from that vendor.... I dunno the mechanism in the latest version that you're using but if you're not happy with consulting the vendor, suggest you just request for refund other than wasting time on fixing such a thing that shoudn't have happenend from such an expensive 'product'.
Ps: On G8, there's no way to replace such teeth with the 'standard set of good teeth' as they're not a separated geometry / wearable, while it's only possible on G9. Technically, there's a possible way to use Faceform Wrap (used to be R3DS Wrap3D )...i.e. use G8 base figure as the floating geometry to wrap this figure with isolating the teeth. But that'll be another story....
I haven't laughed this hard for a long, long time. That poor, poor girl.
I have no technical advice to offer other than 'burn your PC now before whatever you've created in there gets out into the wild' but I love the fact you put hair on her. "Hang on... this might just work....."
"No wait, if we fix the teeth she'll look great!"
There are actual tears of laughter rolling down my cheeks. This has made my evening and I'm so sorry it's required so much pain and suffering on your part!
This is a wonderful tutorial on removing unwanted vertices from morphs.
n.b. once removed, you may or not find that an additional morph is required to make them fit nicely in the mouth but that's another topic.
https://youtu.be/XuQwnTd4Fok?si=Ybba6j24MKDweOPx
I'm afraid this way won't work for OP's case, especially for the distorted teeth, gums, even mouth cavity on such 'stylized character' ... If you clear the selected delta, the position of the related vertices will totally change to the original shape, then it might be another mess with the current head morph.... It's not like the case that one head morph was ever ERC Freezed with a partial delta vertice change on a body part. I myselft have never succeeded in fixing such 'distorted teeth and mouth' case with this way.
But pls definitely try it as we'd like to know if it can help with fixing such an issue coming from Headshop.
LoL, your empathy is appreciated. It's such a wonderful add-on, it's almost a miracle it is available at the DZ shop at all, you'd think only a secret guild should have access to this powerful tool?!
Would have uploaded a follow-up piccie but the forum upload module seems to be out of order right now not finishing any upload
Oh it would be somewhat challenging. Thankfully one can select by surfaces though to hopefully get all the teeth and whatever else needs to be reached inside the head. I would recommend working with the figure's mouth open.
For further morphing to fix the teeth back into the headshape, I would use the bridge to Hexagon etc. That's presupposin' I could even get HeadShop to work on my system. Facegen and Face Transfer, and a "kazillion" purchased and free morphs can also produce many a character.
Indeed ~ but I still pass over HeadShop. I'm building a workflow with Face Builder + Wrap...Reallusion Headshot might be an option as well, will see if they could be game changers or not...
[removed links to pictures]
After this epic failure, my HeadShop managed to do one other face transfer that I would rate 2.3 out of 10, but definitely progress compared to snaggy girl (normal teeth for instance). Unfortunately on the next HeadShop run that program once again imploded, probably useless for the next 12 months after which something is spontaneously ok again and you can try one or two face transfers before it breaks down again.
Oh, boy. Excited I tried "FaceGen Artist demo" today. Now that looked promising! AI you say!? Wow! Gave it a go. Absolutely rubbish. It didn't crash, but the import result couldn't be further from the original; it turned a pretty girl into a butch female bouncer of a night club. Cool but pretty useless.
Guess FT and DAZ's own kazillion shaping sliders is what I am stuck with, which is ok I guess, cranking out new faces is pretty easy with these, in fact the result is sometimes stunning; if only someone would have told me to forget about the expensive headshop hoaxes in this realm.
Thx Catherine3678ab that looks interesting
Thx for your suggestions! "..bought HeadShop OneClick2022 and that turned out to be my top 1 worst purchase" LoL I didn't want to go there so I hinted at a top 5 of worst buys. Come to think of it, wish I hadn't bought about 45% of the stuff I now have, the horrible skins alone!
Thx for your FB. My next attempt with HeadShop had ok teeth. My attempt after that ended in yet another garbled results pane (with an export that will near crash your scene or worse) which means the program has turned unusable again for a long time. One may find that after a year the plugin spontaneously works again and then you can go ahead with one or two head transfers before it dies again. One thing it cannot deal with at all is make a 8.1 transfer and after that try an 8 version (et v.v.). If HeadShop was an actual shop I would suspect people would throw bricks through their windows on probably a daily basis
LOL, that creased me up ! If so, I might be the 1st one... Anyway, forget about it, let's find a way out by ourselves
Well, one person's cure can be to another pure poison so we do have to be somewhat careful how we word things. What you may notice over time is that what we can do, and do do, is remind people that if they bought [any product] within the past 30 days it [normally] can be returned. I'll say normally because one has to be careful as so many sales have trigger items. If by purchasing A, B is a very good price; and then one returns A, they'll find B is suddenly not such a good price. So yes, we do end up with a number of products gathering dust.
For use with Face Transfer is a set of morphs which were instant buys for most of us using Face Transfer. They address the most common issues that Face Transfer presents. https://www.daz3d.com/face-transfer-shapes-for-genesis-8
Years back there was one lady who was making some fantastic morphs for the legacy V4 and M4 figures. Basically she just used dFormers. Had a good eye ;-)
It can help [a lot] to use reference images in the scene [put squared picture on a square plane] - whether in D/S or in a modeler. PureRef is a popular utility for such projects. Many of the pros seem to use ZBrush. Now ZBrush plus some additional plugins [not free] seems to me to be the way to go if seriously trying to get very professional about making characters. Can do a marvellous job with matching resource skins to models as well. There are some videos over on YouTube.
[the super serious have way more money and wire people up to computers, etc. all of which is a bit overkill for one little game avatar or whatever]
You're absolutely right, some add-ons, plugins, proggies, figures and accessoiries might work wonderfully and without glitches for some, if not most, people and as you said there is always a rather generous, be it time limited, return policy at the DAZ shop. I recognize and respect the hard work that went in producing these resources and the enormouse skills curve that was travelled by these PA's.
As for (stable and reliable) "Face Transfer" (FT) within a week after purchase I stumbled upon the "Face Transfer Shapes for Genesis 8" addon that you mentioned which gets rid of the oddly flattened faces and faint jaw line. Only today I learned with FT comes a bunch of sliders for finetuning the transfer result. In my case, having bought a shocking amount of items at the DS shop over the last two years or so, I now have so many sliders with often the exact same function that it is difficult to navigate among them but I guess there are ways to organize them that I haven't learned yet. I do like FT for providing a quick way to get going on a character and dependent on luck and/or skills you could (supposedly) come close to your source model (I can't say I have yet accomplished any convincing level of verisimilitude with FT but that's on me not being a wizard with shapes, morphs and sliders).
As for ...shudder ... Head Shop I am tech savvy enough to at some point figure out which files, registry or config settings to restore so after a single succesful run, you could actually have another one; what the program misses sorely is a reset button. Re-installing Head Shop doesn't make any difference for the problems I encountered so it is on another level that I need to fix it.
Thx again for the other tips and suggestions you provided! ZBrush is far at the horizon for me but I'll take a crack at some other proggies soon.
Try this free tool:
Full Body Morph Fixer
https://sharecg.com/v/92305/browse/10/Software-and-Tools/Full-Body-Morph-Fixer
It can reset the vertex morph deltas for different body parts. For your case, I wouldn't just reset the teeth, because the teeth are attached to the jaw, and perhaps the jaw is distorted too. So, I would reset all of these parts:
- Teeth
- LowerJaw
- UpperJaw
- Tongue
You can then modify the node transforms to move or scale them so they fit better if something doesn't look right. See these nodes:
- Upper Teeth
- Lower Jaw
- Lower Teeth
Yes, using AutoSculpt morphs may result in shaggy teeth in HeadShop - but there's an easy fix. I sincerely wish people would read manuals (HeadShop has a 70 page manual with lots of illustrations). Chapter 5 is called Troubleshooting and there are ample explanations for correcting issues. Please bear in mind that 3D face creation is not straightforward and so far it is not automatric in many cases. Unlike competition HeadShop 2023 does fully support G9, but DAZ added several levels of complexity to G9 and also coupled items that earlier were separate (like teeth).
To summ it up:HeadShop: used in a simple mode HeadShop works fine without distorted teeth. Using the AutoSculpt feature has the potential of distortion, but it is fixable by counter dialing (see Manual).
Laslo
Thanks for that tip Seven193!
Unfortunately, I can't find the 70 page manual that you refer to. HeadShop 14 (via its menu) only has a 38 p. manual (https://printahead.net/wp-content/uploads/HS14-Manual.pdf) called "HeadShop14 with LoveChild, OneClick2022 For Windows User Manual". The DAZ3d documentation center for "HeadShop 14 with AutoSculpt WIN" does not offer a link to any documentation (except the Youtube video). The file list has one reference to a PDF: /General/Abalone LLC/HeadShop 14 with AutoSculpt WIN/UnzipFirst/README.pdf
For those who would like to know what my original source photo was (random girl on Pinterest, turns out to be a model named tia jonsson):
before/after fusion for copyright reasons
When in HeadShop, have you tried to look under the Help menu Tutorials? Or in HeadShop startup screen under the "?" button? Both download the HeadShopPRO 2023 tutorial.
Or go to: https://printahead.net/wp-content/uploads/HeadShopPRO-2023.pdf
Also, there's a video about fixing shaggy teeth: https://youtu.be/83IWYL65TFs
Was reading about a problem with head morphs on Renderosity, and apparently the problem in that case was theres a tooth morph which you had to edit the default value to 0 rather than 100 before importing as importing some head morphs can for some reason mess things up if this value is at 100. I think its Mouth Realsm HD? Might also help here
Ok was looking and its in the comments for this script in Rendo Free Stuff https://www.renderosity.com/freestuff/items/95349/character-splitter-for-daz-studio
It might not help but cant hurt trying
Cool tip, Thx. Love tools like that, must be many dozens more like that out there but it is only in these discussions that I Iearn about them (but that's fine).
Also, there's a video about fixing shaggy teeth: https://youtu.be/83IWYL65TFs
This video applies to earlier HeadShop versions that supported Gen 8.1 morphing.
We fixed the shaggy teeth problem for Gen 9, so that will not be an issue with Gen 9
Thanks for that more comprehensive manual, obviously it is focused on the latest HeadShop version but a lot is also applicable for HS14. The snaggy teeth may be under control at this point but now I notice that the eyelashes are never where they are supposed to be. This is a consistent problem for 8 and 8.1 (and YES I unparented the Eyelashes for 8 exactly as the manual prescribes). To some extent this fault can be attenuated by making a perfect guess what the top of the head should be in the first screen (green slider top of skull), but whatever height I choose, the eyelashes never come out well. The HS morph end result doesn't seem to have eyelashes and when you add them from another figure, the position is off, as if the entire upper face anatomy (including eyebrows) is a little bit off (even though the face seems anatomically ok). Standard 8.1 eyelashes from the essentials library also don't work. For hours I have tried to get eyelashes in a normal position making 10+ HeadShop projects or so, changing head heights in the first project pane etc., but the eyelashes are always some distance away from the eyelids. The eyebrows (once added from another figure) often (not always) are lower than they are supposed to be often below the 'eye ridge' (that boney ridge above the eye).
Here are some examples:
As I recall, working from G8 with no eyebrows, make the HS morph. After polishing and saving it, zero the figure, figure is selected, add a fresh pair of the default eyebrows.
Thx Catherine, "Zero figure" also resets the head morph and "Zero shape" and "Zero pose" aren't of much use in the contex of this problem; maybe I don't understand you correctly? You made me think though because zero-ed figures don't have wonky eyelashes. See my next post in this thread.
Inspired by the Zero figure suggestion by Catherine3678ab (paraphrased by me as "zero-ed figures don't have wonky eyelashes"), I started to wonder if the most simple solution could be the mere saving of the HeadShop head morph as a shaping preset? Why don't I just export (i.e. "save as") the head morph as a shaping preset and apply that preset on a "healthy" figure (say "Genesis 8 Basic Female"). Initially I unchecked too many options in the "Shaping Preset Save Options" trying to be clever and just focus on the head but that didn't quite work, but by simply including plenty of options that are already there I finally got the HeadShop morph to be a shape preset ready to be unleashed on a "healthy" Genesis 8 Basic Female without (it would seem) the nasty problem of the floating eyelashes. It kind of makes sense in the end, that HeadShop thing is just a head morph, the odd eyelashes are apparently not an intrinsic part of this shape (or any shape?) [I still remove them before I make the shape preset just to make sure].
It is not the ideal workflow but as you get quite nifty working with DS it is a mere 90 second hold-up/workaround when you are as determined/desperate as I am to get your money's worth out of that fateful HeadShop purchase ....
UPDATE: What I just described: It won't work. Unfortunately you can't save head shapes this way. Such a shape preset will apply some sliders + parameters which you used after the initial HeadShop morph right before you saved the "shaping preset" (and those were the changes that fooled me into thinking I was applying a bona fide HS head shape). So it's back to the drawing board: how do you save head shapes?
.... after applying a fresh set of eyelashes to the default figure, I rather assumed that one would then dial back in the desired HS morph. And the lashes would then follow the morph ;-)
To save "any" morph, one sets the morph to "0" - File > Save as> ... Morph Asset. When the options box appears, select "only" the one new morph. D/S will auto-fill the rest.
eta: One cannot save a shape preset before the shaping morph has been saved.