rim lights

ladywolf1

Hi, is there a way to consistenly create a rim light around the character no matter the scene or hdri used? I'm struggling a lot with this, I tried both lights and surface lights to achieve this but sometimes I have to turn the lumens up so much that the enviroment gets ruined. Sometimes I just add a light and is all fine, sometimes in another scene no matter what I do the rim doesn't look good at all. 

I don't understand what's controlling this, how to be consistent with it and I was wondering if there's a product or a way to ALWAYS achieve it, a nice rim, sharp, defined on the side of the character.

Richard Haseltine

Well, this is something that photographers also have to work at in the physical world. Whata re you using to create rim lights, and what is your Environment Mode?

crosswind

In general, good effect from rim light(s) depends on 2 things -: 1) position and angle of ration of the rim light; 2) the settings of Surface(s) lit by the rim light ( esp. glossiness and SSS relevant ). Like the pic below: it's Dome + Scene mode, I put a rim light just behind the figure so as to make a rim on the hair and a Rembrandt and a fill light to lighten both sides. So the rims on the skin and top come from the glossiness, while the rim of the hair comes from the transmission.

Sometimes, yes, ambient lights (HDRI, emissions...) and other lights you place into the scene may ruin the rims but that depend... For instance, different HDRI settings have different light positiong / angle / intensity, but they won't spoil your rim lights as long as you control them well...Don't put a harsh light just in the oppsite of a rim light otherwise it'll weaken the rim effect, so on and so forth...

ladywolf1

crosswind said:

In general, good effect from rim light(s) depends on 2 things -: 1) position and angle of ration of the rim light; 2) the settings of Surface(s) lit by the rim light ( esp. glossiness and SSS relevant ). Like the pic below: it's Dome + Scene mode, I put a rim light just behind the figure so as to make a rim on the hair and a Rembrandt and a fill light to lighten both sides. So the rims on the skin and top come from the glossiness, while the rim of the hair comes from the transmission.

Sometimes, yes, ambient lights (HDRI, emissions...) and other lights you place into the scene may ruin the rims but that depend... For instance, different HDRI settings have different light positiong / angle / intensity, but they won't spoil your rim lights as long as you control them well...Don't put a harsh light just in the oppsite of a rim light otherwise it'll weaken the rim effect, so on and so forth...

Thanks! May I ask what kind of light is this exactly? Behind the characer? What shape/type? Because if I try to do what you just did with the point light I get all the enviroment ruined if the wall behind is that close like in your picture, it gets too bright for example. And how far the light is from the character? just behind it as in stick ot it? Is it a mesh ligth, a surface light?? 

Thanks!!!

 

ladywolf1

Richard Haseltine said:

Well, this is something that photographers also have to work at in the physical world. Whata re you using to create rim lights, and what is your Environment Mode?

Tried a bunch of stuff. Tried sun mode, hdri, dome only... The issue is more or less always there. I'm mostly using point ligts, but I tried with rigs and similiar purchased from the store but they seem way too strong / artificial compared to point lights.

I was wondering if an item like a long shaped one with surface emission turned on just behind the character could do the trick...? But that would be visibile in the camera from certain angles  

crosswind

...

Thanks! May I ask what kind of light is this exactly? Behind the characer? What shape/type? Because if I try to do what you just did with the point light I get all the enviroment ruined if the wall behind is that close like in your picture, it gets too bright for example. And how far the light is from the character? just behind it as in stick ot it? Is it a mesh ligth, a surface light?? 

Thanks!!!

It's just a mesh spotlight with Cylinder geometry. I attached the scene file with the lights setup, for your reference. Pls try and tweak them as you wish. 

Causam3D

Look here and extrapolate:

Chezjuan

Here is a good tutorial from SickleYield on three-point lighting. 

https://www.deviantart.com/sickleyield/journal/Tutorial-Three-Point-Lighting-In-Iray-598282717

I generally get good results using this as a basic initial setup and then tweaking as needed. I've found it works well both indoors and outdoors with HDRI lighting.

ladywolf1

Thank you everyone! Been learning a lot about this! :)

chevybabe25

Easiest way to create a rim light:

Go To: Create: Distant Light ( keep all the options as default) Click Accept.

In the Tab labeled "Lights" Change the default Lumens from 1500 to 15000 ( you may need to adjust this number afterwards)

In the Tab labeled "Parameters" select the y rotation, and just rotate it to one side or the other.

Done!

kyoto kid

...what about in an interior scene? I tried  a photometric spot but not only didn't it create the desirted effect, but the light source itself appeared in the render..

crosswind

kyoto kid said:

...what about in an interior scene? I tried  a photometric spot but not only didn't it create the desirted effect, but the light source itself appeared in the render..

It should be easier than an exterior scene... As I mentioned above, a good Rim depends on various factors rather than a light source(s) only, especially the reflection, translucency and SSS settings on the surfaces of skin, hair, wearables, etc.  So maybe pls check those setup as well. And using spotlights with Photometric are always the best choice for N-points lighting pattern that may also bring you great result of "Rim" effect.

PBR rendering is still different from photocencitive with CMOS/CCD in a camera in terms of "light effect", but we may try utmost to approach those effects from a real camera by a well setup and post-work...

kyoto kid

...still hve the spotlight iself appears in the render.  I moved it out of the camera veiw plane but that thanged the angle of the light falling on the character. 

SO I did some experimenting and found that SickleYield's Inviso Lights solved the matter as the light soruce itself does not appear in the render , I used the "lampshade" light, prop, placed it at light source (candle holders) in the scene, then dialled down the intensity and adjusted the temperature to match that of the setting and it worked beautifully. 

crosswind

kyoto kid said:

...still hve the spotlight iself appears in the render.  I moved it out of the camera veiw plane but that thanged the angle of the light falling on the character. 

SO I did some experimenting and found that SickleYield's Inviso Lights solved the matter as the light soruce itself does not appear in the render , I used the "lampshade" light, prop, placed it at light source (candle holders) in the scene, then dialled down the intensity and adjusted the temperature to match that of the setting and it worked beautifully. 

Right ~ nice product. SY Invisilights Iray could be used but they are "old version ghost lights" which still used Cutout Opacity so they're not crystal clear, while they should be fine while being used as rim light. The best ghost light up-to-now is the new ghost light in DS 4.22 (or 4.21.1.26+). It's crystal clear without using Opacity. And a spotlight could be also set as a "ghost" now with DS 4.22. Spotlight can even disappear in the mirror...

kyoto kid

...I'm working in 4.21.0,5 as I am on Windows 7 as it still uses an Nvidia driver that supports the older OS. 

I looked more closely at the scene and while the light source itself is not visible in the render, it does cast a shadow on what is behind it   I had the Two Sided Light setting turned off as with it on it lit part of the background as well.

What I did was move the light source closer to the character, reduced the luminosity to half of the default setting and turned "Two Sided Light" back on (which eliminated the shadow) and it produced the desired rim lighting on the character's face without also other affecting elements in the scene behind it.

So with a little extra fine tuning they will work with no unwanted side effects.. 

crosswind

kyoto kid said:

...I'm working in 4.21.0,5 as I am on Windows 7 as it still uses an Nvidia driver that supports the older OS. 

I looked more closely at the scene and while the light source itself is not visible in the render, it does cast a shadow on what is behind it   I had the Two Sided Light setting turned off as with it on it lit part of the background as well.

What I did was move the light source closer to the character, reduced the luminosity to half of the default setting and turned "Two Sided Light" back on (which eliminated the shadow) and it produced the desired rim lighting on the character's face without also other affecting elements in the scene behind it.

So with a little extra fine tuning they will work with no unwanted side effects.. 

Got it ~ Nice tweaking ! 

kyoto kid

...thanks. 

drawflesh

For any future person looking at how to fix Ghost lights (light sources that do throw light, but don't show up themselves) under 4.22+:

Select a surface (with emissive properties active by adding a Iray emissive shader on it) or light, go to the Utilities and find the Create Advanced Iray Node Properties:

Double click it and activate all options. Then go to the Parameters tab of the light/primitive and activate 'Enable Iray Matte'. Now for primitives you can go to the emissive surface and then Base, when putting Refraction Index to 0 and Refraction Weight to 1, you will have your ghost light. Sometimes (depending on the global illumination) you have to tweak it a bit, or the matte shadow level.

Moderator Edited to allow image to show!