NVIDIA 4090 vs. 3090 both 24G Ram
RiverMissy
Posts: 300
Alright I have had many life changes and difficulties since mid December, but hopefully the Universe will give me a break so I can order my new computer. I am down to whether to get the 3090 or 4090 processor and looking for input. The cost difference total is ~$350.00 more for the 4090. Yes, you go from an 800 watt Power Supply to 1200 watt, etc. I am looking at an HP Omen customized so they handle all the needed changes. The 4090 is very new and the 3090 is tried and true. The price difference is not the deciding factor since that isn't that much money overall for the machine I am ordering. All input will be appreciated. Thank you all in advance.
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Uh, if price is no object then why bother asking. Rtx4090 is a better card than a rtx3090. Buy the rtx4090
The nVidia RTX 4090 without a doubt. Congratulations & enjoy.
4090s have issues like melting power connectors, & non-typical cables. A 4090 would be a no-brainer in a year or so when they get the power issues fleshed out, and decide which of the several new power plug designs actually work without melting, and finally re-establish the supply chain so that manufacturers are making the cable design du-jour for those new power hungry pixel crunchers.
A heavily utilized 4090 almost seems to beg for a water based cooler. Water cooling is more fragile than air-cooling. Leaks, clogs, pumps, lots-o-glitchy-gadgets. But if you're not afraid of the water, go for a swim.
1200 watts is getting close to the level of electrical usage that occassionally cause outlets and the circuit breakers they run on to trip. Do you have access to the electric panel when it trips? Do you have dedicated outlet, or will it be sharing the circuit with other appliances?
Those are the kinds of issues I was wondering about. I thought just about everything nowadays is water cooled. It looked to me like you can hardly buy a system without water cooling. I had not heard about the power connectors melting. That would be awful! You are making me think the 3090 is sounding really good right now.
I have an older home with crappy electrical. My current computer is on a 20 amp circuit, one of the few in the entire house, but I have a few other things plugged in with it. Most appliances that use 1200 watts don't run as long as a render so I can see where one might run into trouble. Yes, the 3090 might be the safer bet for a lot of reasons.
I built a new Desktop PC from scratch earlier this year. I had gotten a bonus at work so, "sort of, price was no object". My house was built around 1975 and man, it has the weakest circuits! My computer is in the basement and I have yet to pop a circuit, but we have had power outages - UPS to the rescue! Make sure you get at least SOMETHING of an UPS to help filter the power. Now, I am running a Samsung 49" ultra curved screen, along with a 34" Ultra curved screen AND a portrait oriented 24" monitor all running off the 4090. I have as many as five external hard drives. I can provide a full list of detailed specs after I get home, if you are interested. I went with AIR COOLED (for no good reason), and have a 1200 watt PSU with 128 GB RAM, 8TB internal hard drive, 2TB SSD and TWO keyboards and mice on that system because the monitor display span is just THAT wide! At any given time I am running DAZ Studio on the 34" monitor and Photoshop/Bridge/FilterForge/Topaz Labs/Luminar Neo and around fifty FireFox browser tabs on the 49" screen and Discord with Midjourney on the portrait 24". I don't have issues running all that all at the same time - AND(!) I also have another old Alienware desktop running Star Wars Battle Front off the same UPS/wall socket (Maybe even an Alexa SubWoofer and a lamp, and a Nixi clock).
All this to say, I wouldn't buy 'old tech' if building a New System. But that's just me. :)
you could underclock it to draw less power
I own a 3090 and a 4090. Buy the 4090.
The 4090 isn't new, it was announced about a year ago and it shares some design similarities with the 3090ti which is a year older than that and is itself an evolution of the 3090.
The power connector is a non issue and always was outside of clickbait reporting. Problems come when it isn't fully inserted and to be fair it doesn't click home with the same feedback as the older 6 pin and 8 pin ones but it is pretty much the same beast as the one on the 3090 just with the addition of four sense wires. If you can't plug a 4090 in safely you won't be able to plug a 3090 in either.
A 4090 is faster and more efficient than a 3090. It has 12 2gb vram chips on the same side of the board as the gpu chip and a huge cooler. The 3090 has 24 1gb vram chips with half being on the back of the board where they are inadequately cooled. The vram on a 3090 can hit the 100c mark or more. When this happens the fans go nuts and it'll sound like a hoover. 4090s don't have this issue.
My 4090 uses about 50w less power than my 3090 in studio and renders about 60% faster. Supposedly there's a bit more to come with Iray updates and power use might increase but at the moment my total system power use while rendering in studio is 400w. It isn't going to melt your wiring.
Water cooling is optional unless you're really into overclocking or want to run really quietly. 4090s all have good cooling, a decent air cooler for the cpu and a case with good airflow and you're good to go.
With all due repect the issues with the 4090 melting are legit. I have seen multiple reports on it and had it happen to a friend of mine. Definitely something to keep in mind when deciding on a puirchase
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all of those 30 melting connectors were user fails who didnt connect it correctly. me and my friends got 4 4090 and nobody has a single issue, the card draws less power than a 3090 in DS. and a 4090 does not need a water cooler, every test assures that. it stays cool and around 55 Celsius which is damn cold. a water cooler is a complete waste.
if you connect the connector completly, it can not melt. steve burke tried to make it melt but he wasnt able to and hes THE source of knowledge in the IT space. not like LTT =D
All these people acting like the 4090 sucks down power like a Hoover. The 4090 uses less than 300 Watts during an Iray render. It uses less than a 3090 does. It uses roughly the same power that previous gen flagships like the 2080ti and 1080ti do. There are not many software that actually push it near the 450 Watt mark that it is marketed at. So if your PC can handle a 3090, then obviously it can handle a 4090. It is not up for debate. Water cooling is a preference, and not necessary by any means. Most 4090 coolers are over engineered for what they do, resulting in cards that often stay well below 65C at all times, even in the 50s.
If you watched tech news, the power connector news largely died off the instant Gamersexus posted the results of their investigation on it last year.
I find that rather interesting, don't you? Make sure you properly plug the cables in. End of story. There are plenty of 4090 owners in this forum, there are probably more 4090 owners in this forum and rendering in general than anywhere else. I have not seen this plague of melted 4090s here. I am not saying that this never happens...but you can avoid it by plugging in the cable correctly. These tech tubers often use 4090s themselves because it handles video production as well as it games. That is to say, quite well. You also do not see a plague of these youtubers with melted 4090s. Perhaps it is because they know how to plug the cable in?
The updated cable connector simply shortened the sense pins on the connector, that's it. This just helps to better ensure the cable is connected properly. So again...plug in the cable properly. The GN video offers a couple tips on plugging the cable in.
The choice comes down to how much performance you want. The 4090 is faster without question, how much is that extra worth to you. It might even get faster still, as the Iray dev team claims they have improved 4000 series performance in Iray 2023. Sadly Daz has decided to not give us that update. This is a quote from Richard:
So the Iray update has been held back. Considering that Daz once stated that Daz Studio 5 was coming "soon"...over TWO years ago...who knows what the time frame may be for DS to ever get these Iray updates.
I saw multiple websites and youtubers reporting on a small number of cases and a typical internet reaction. The 3090ti uses the same connector and didn't melt. The 30 series 12 pin connector is very similar, those also didn't melt. They've been tested at much higher loads than a single GPU can produce and didn't melt. I'm not saying they are a good design or even neccessary but If you push the things home fully and do a final check after arranging the rest of the cable and any adaptors in use they won't melt.
And don't sharply bend the plug at the end of the cable. Which makes some installations in narrow cases, problematic.
If you have an opportunity to choose a 4090 over a 3090 with a price difference of only $350, go for the 4090. If you have a reliable and sufficient power supply, and proper power cables from a reputable brand that has not been called out for melting issues, and you don't forcefully bend the ends of the power connectors, you should fine. Now that there is awareness of the main cause for the specific cases where the 4090's melted around launch, you can signifigantly minimize the risk of this being an issue. Also specific cables that were known to cause issues should be mostly unavailable no the market by now unless you buy from an unreliable source. Of course nothing is 100% risk free as is with anything in life, but the specific melting distaster around the 4090s can be avoided with the knowldege we now have after the issue was first discovered about a year ago. So yes there are countless videos on YouTube when the issue was first becoming known and with good reason, but after about a year we have an understanding of the specific cause. If you are paranoid about starting a fire in your home then its your call. But if it was seriously a large scale issue to the point where houses were burning down or computers were setting on fire because of the 4090, NVIDIA would be forced to recall and discontinue the 4090's.
The fact that you're planning on buying an HP brand PC, you'll also have a warranty and I'm sure the assembly will be fine. Go with the 4090 for sure! The GPU was released in Oct 2022, almost one year ago.
Ugh, now I'm vacilating between a 4080 & 4090. It would be an easy choice if the price difference was 50% more, rather than 100% more.
OP, if you are starting with an HP Omen base, verify that a full length, 2.5 - 3 slot wide card will fit in the case. I have an Omen and am limited to a two fan / 2.25 slot max width GPU due to the case size and location of the power in connector to the mobo (connector is too close to the PCI slot and won't allow a wider GPU to fit). I'm stuck with a two fan 4070.
I had a 3090 and it failed due to heat problems. I was refunded under warranty and bought myself a 4080 to replace it. I have to say that, even by comparison with the 3090, I'm impressed with the 4080 render times. The 4080 is also silent and draws considerably less power so runs at a reasonable temperature. Drawback is 16GB compared to 24GB but I have to say that I have not yet had a drop to CPU so I'm extremely happy with the 4080. Plus I have a healthy remaining store credit due to the price difference.
Just one more note, there are rumors this 4000 generation will go on a little longer than the normal 2 year cycle. We may not see the 5000 series (if they call it that) until 2025. I don't know if that has any impact on your decision, in case you were thinking a waiting it out, or buying a cheaper 3090 and getting a 5090 next year. In my opinion, that is a possible reason to get the 4090, because it will be "state of the art" for longer.
But everything is in flux. Nvidia is focused on AI right now, but that market could cool down. If AI stays hot, then Nvidia may just wait. If AI starts to cool down we might get the 5000 series sooner because Nvidia will need to sell something.
One thing that hasn't been discussed is what you have right now. How awesome the 3090 or 4090 will feel to you will depend on that. I have the Iray Benchmark thread in my sig which can give some idea of just what kind of performance you can get. It is not absolute, each scene can be different and the performance gaps can shift depending on what the cards are better at. But the performance does follow a trend. You can run the bench yourself, and use your numbers to directly compare just how much faster a 3090 or 4090 might be.
You can now get 90 or 180 degree adaptors with the power plugs connected to a small PCB. I've seen some with power use displays on but I'm not sure if they've hit the market yet.
Regarding plugging in the 12VHPWR cable properly, MSI did something clever by making the end of the connector bright yellow. When you plug it in fully, the yellow section isn't visible. So you can see at a glance if it's not right, come loose or whatever. Pics here.
Same. I also own the 3090, and the 4090. I used to have a system with two 3090's, I pulled one. The 4090 is not as fast as two 3090's but not too far behind.
New system is a Ryzen 7950X3D, rendering with Iray I am pulling less than 450 watts for the whole system. I forgot what I was pulling with the 3090/3090s.
Emphasis on a lot more efficient. Not only is it a lot faster than a 3090, but you're getting a lot more iterations per watt. For the power connector, as long as you're careful it is plugged in properly (fully seated) you'll be fine. I'd say for an extra $350 it's a no-brainer to go for the 4090.
Congrats! I just got a new PC with a 4070ti in it, but it wouldn't boot, so sent it back.
OK, thanks, well that pretty much decides it for me then - an MSI RTX 4090.
Just out of curiosity, which 4090 would folks recommend? The Founders Edition, the ASUS TUF GeForce RTX® 4090 OC Edition Gaming Graphics Card, the MSI mentioned above, or another one? I'm looking to buy a new card and this is the first time I'm not buying a computer with one in it already but upgrading my existing computer so I am totally lost. I honestly thought they were all just made by Nvidia. I typed it into Amazon and so many options came up and I have no idea what the difference is. Any help in pointing me in one direction or another would be greatly appreciated otherwise I'll just buy something and hope for the best. Thank you!
It's pointless.
Any complex scene with more than one character will be too large to render in the card, it will go to the cpu. Save your money.
JD
That's a bit of a tougher question. Being 4090s they should all be pretty similar in performance and cooling, since this is the most premium gaming GPU around, they don't generally skimp on them. 4090 coolers are kind of over engineered. You can look up some reviews on these particular cards.
One thing I'd look closer at is the company behind the card, in particular how well do they handle warranty claims if needed, and general service. I personally have not filed any RMAs with these companies, so I don't have first hand experience with them. My MSI 1080ti Gaming X model was awesome, but that was 2017, and things can change. My Founder's model 3090 has also been awesome, and has freakishly low temps. One thing I do like about the FE model is that the way they built the cooler also helps prevent "GPU sag", where the weight of the card slowly sags over time. These cards are so big that they can sag unless you use a supporting bracket or post. I have had this card for over 1.5 years and there is no evidence of any sag. The cooler and shroud are built like one solid piece, and they seem rigid enough to hold up unlike almost any other design. I like the FE design in general, it is quite brilliant.
Gamers Nexus had special video not just tearing down the 4090, they cut it in half with a water jet and examined it in a way we've never seen before. It is a wild video if you like this sort of stuff.
They also have a standard review of the FE 4090.
This review has multiple 4090s, and is interesting to see. If nothing else, you can see the GPUs standing on the desk in front of her, because these things are massive. The 3rd party cards do run slightly cooler than the FE model, but that doesn't mean the FE is poor. Just that the others are built like tanks, lol. These are all gaming focused reviews, you will have a hard time finding a 4090 review with Iray.
There are some 4090 reviews with rendering software. Just know they use a lot less power than gaming does. You will never see a 4090 hitting 400 Watts with Iray unless you have done something crazy to it. That translates to temps as well, as you can chop off a couple degrees from the temps shown.
The 4090 FE is a good card, it should be at the bottom of the price curve for a 4090, they look more grown up than some efforts and they are built with higher quality components than the cheapest cards from other manufacturers. Temps and noise will be fine especially if you're not doing high resolution high refresh gaming, they're still ok even if you are. Don't buy one from Amazon, it'll be from an unauthorized reseller and the warranty is suspect. Go to the Nvidia website for your region follow the buy now link for an FE card and it will take you to your region's authorized distributer which is best buy in the us, scan in the uk and so on. FE cards are not available in all regions.
As to who makes them - Nvidia designs the GPU chip, TSMC makes it and Nvidia sell this as a kit with a set of vram to companies like Asus to make GPUs. This is why any non FE card is going to be more expensive. Nvidia also supply a base design for the board, the 'reference' design which only the cheapest cards from manufacturers like pallit, zotac and inno3d use. Manufacturers are free to beef up the design with higher capacity parts, higher power limits and such but everything is signed off by Nvidia, even down to the fact that your card is going to have geforce rtx plastered over it somewhere.
Unless you're really going to hammer the card they all work in a similar fashion. The FE cards are good, other than that I'd be looking at the middle tier cards from a manufacturer you trust and keep an eye on warranty length, can be anything from 2 to 5 years. Once you've picked a card look at reviews and google to see if users have come up with any weird issues, even the best manufacturers come out with a turkey sometimes. I was going to buy a Gigabyte gaming card, middle of the pack in terms of price and components and a decent warranty but happened on an Inno3D with a waterblock so I bought that instead.