Brush Brilliance: Mastering Photoshop Brushes wi Your Renders - Question

NotAnArtist

Here's a quick question about Digital Art Live's new product, Brush Brilliance: Mastering Photoshop Brushes with your Renders.
https://www.daz3d.com/brush-brilliance-mastering-photoshop-brushes-with-your-renders

I was about to buy it a moment ago, but got a bit worried.

Are the concepts in these tutorials transferable to GIMP? IOW, would Photoshop brushes in GIMP have the same abilities, in this particular app? I have read about some brushes having layers(?) which would not work in GIMP.

I have installed several of Ron's Photoshop brushes in GIMP, and they paint shapes as defined, but I haven't yet studied anything regarding their special effects uses... That is, blending, etc. Too busy with the on-going Premiere Artists Sale:-)

The idea that a brush could insert mystical elements into realistic images fascinates me. I'm only able to think of them in the old-fashioned paint-spreading mode.

Thank you, anyone, for your help with this. A lot of us can't afford Photoshop, or maybe I'm the only one, so your information would be quite valuable, to me at least.

dtrscbrutal

 I have not seen the tutorials however, I have used GIMP nearly everyday for decades, regularly using Ron's Brushes since purchace and I don't see anything in the promo images that I could not do in GIMP. 
 Obviously the product being PS specific is going to mean at least some of it will not translate to GIMP.
 It looks like a well made tutorial, and Daz3d has a 30 day return policy if you don't like it. 

NotAnArtist

Thank you for your response! Yeah, it's worth the try at the very least. Cheers!

ArtAngel

The tutorial is presented by someone who appears to be learning brushes and seems to be fairly novice to photoshop. I assumed this because blending modes play a huge role and the presenter was questioning if one would always use overlay or would they maybe use screen mode depending on translucency of the material, not acknowledging other crucial blending modes. So if you are very new to Photoshop you may find this helpful. I found the video 1 of 5 to be painstakingly slow paced, drawn out, and felt although it was an intro, more could have been covered. I skipped to video 4 of 5 to see if the pace had changed or if the knowledged shared might be more intermediate or advanced and feel less like the peron was a novice user . . . but I bailed fairly early. Basically, I would not recoomend this tutorial for intermediate or advanced users and feel it is for someone who has never used photoshop brushes ever. I have been using photoshop since the beginning in the early nineties. I still have the  boxed 1994 version of photshop 3. I am trying to be fair in my assesment and it appeared this presenter was too new to brushes himself, and too inexperienced, to teach others.

Artini

At least it is something, that covers usage od Rons's brushes.

I have asked Ron on the forum, long time ago, to provide some kind of instructions

about how to use his brushes, but it never happened.

Would like to see some more tutorials about usage of Ron's brushes,

made by a person, that mastered its use.

nomad-ads_8ecd56922e

On a related note, there is also a photoshop-brushes pluggin for Paint.net, though the pluggin I've used mainly just lets you load the brushes as individual images and stamp them down as needed, I get the impression PS has a lot more sophisticated functions and functionality wrt brushes, but at least I can plop the brushes down into an image.

NotAnArtist

ArtAngel

ArtAngel: 

Thank you for your input! It directly clarifies for me one of my concerns.

It seems to me that once a person learns the basics about a brush, the next thing he needs to know would be when and how to use one technique versus another, based on his image goals.

I can learn the basics from GIMP's own tutorials. What's missing there are explanations of how to use them for specific goals, eg, mystical effects.

To have an instructor be the same as me, unsure of what technique to use in various situations would be ridiculous. So it sounds like the purpose of the tutorials was not geared towards my goals. I mean, he may be simply teaching basics about brushes... in an app I don't use!
So I don't disparage the instructor. I'm just glad to have avoided purchasing something not suitable for me.
Thanks again, very muchl

 

NotAnArtist

Artini

 Artini: I enjoyed your comments. Thank you.

Um, ...I've always had the feeling that the elusive "Ron" doesn't really exist. I don't know why I've had that feeling. Maybe it's because his promos are so fantastic and inspiring, I would have expected the real person behind them to put quite a bit of effort into helping his customers accomplish the same results.

It's sort of how I feel about Photoshop users. No offense to them, either! In fact, I'm very very jealous. But they're an insider's group also. They're like musicians! I was a musician in my day, and boy can we be cultish! (Ah, the memories!).

ArtAngel

NotAnArtist said:

Artini

 Artini: I enjoyed your comments. Thank you.

Um, ...I've always had the feeling that the elusive "Ron" doesn't really exist. I don't know why I've had that feeling. Maybe it's because his promos are so fantastic and inspiring, I would have expected the real person behind them to put quite a bit of effort into helping his customers accomplish the same results.

It's sort of how I feel about Photoshop users. No offense to them, either! In fact, I'm very very jealous. But they're an insider's group also. They're like musicians! I was a musician in my day, and boy can we be cultish! (Ah, the memories!).

Ron actually does put a ton of effort into his customer, and he does do tutorials. The thing is, he includes them  in products his clients purchase. Tutorials are included in some products and also he has been known to include a PDF of very large brush samples 1.5 inchor more inches of each brush in many of his products (about 16 per page). A printable catalogue so to speak. So he is catering to buyers by including these things in various products as extras, which is very smart. The details on the product page indicate if these extyras exist.. For example this product, https://www.daz3d.com/rons-flames includes a turorial that is product specific but is also applicable and helpful when using other brushes. I have not used this product yet so I only know the tutorial does exist in the downloaded files. Other times he includes extras like the background used in the promos, or psd files he created along with the brushes used to create such. Ron, I believe, had cancer back in 2017, and having had a mother and two siblings die from cancer I can assure you it is not a short term thing and time management is crucial. So rather than spend hours in a forum, he probably spends hours working on perfecting products. I have never regretted a single item purchased from his catelogue nor felt short changed. I highly recommend his products.

NotAnArtist

ArtAngel

Hi ArtAngel. Thanks for the comments. Of course I was teasing Ron from a distance while trying to make a point about how hard it is to get info which may be convertable to GIMP. Very sorry to hear about his family's troubles. I was an xray tech for 38 years and repeatedly being involved with people who were experiencing those things took a toll on me - I was absolutely not made for that job and still can't shake the memories.

OK, I just checked and counted 30 Ron's Brushes in my stack, which doesn't include Ron's Flames. I searched thru several just now and found no tutes. I've tried several in GIMP in the past and had no clue what to do with them. Blending attempts were laughable.

So, I will dig thru every Ron's Brush I own. If I find no tutorials, I'll go ahead and buy the Brush Brilliance video tutorial. At least it's a start, however imperfect. This is very frustrating! Your points, tho, were very helpful. Thank you!

mding

@NotAnArtist

Cris Palomino on how to use explosion brushes:

https://www.daz3d.com/forums/discussion/comment/1264261/#Comment_1264261

1. Load a black layer beneath the bottom layer in the explosions, the explosions will show up best against black since the explosions are all alphas.  
2. You can then rename the layers if naming will remind you what kind of explosion is on the layer.  
3. When you're ready to try out an explosion, copy the layer and paste or drag (in Photoshop) to the file you want to use it in.
4. Ways to utilize the explosions include:
5. transform or liquify (Photoshop)
6. erase or use a layer mask (in Photoshop, great for keeping the edit non-destructive) parts you don't need
7. use more than one explosion over another to make a different looking explosion
8. render the figures, and other items, separate from the rest of the scene to allow you to put effect behind them
9. use hue/sat/value to change the coloration of the explosion

This applies to most of the other psd sets.

 

MelissaGT on how to use brushes inside DAZ Part I:

https://www.daz3d.com/forums/discussion/comment/5327716/#Comment_5327716

Most of Ron's packs include overlays already on a black background...and for anything else you can quickly make something up by stamping the brush/brushes you want onto a black background. Then you can easily load that black backround image onto a plane primitive and apply an emissive shader (the same image would also go into the cutout space). I've attached a couple examples that do just that...the embers in the foreground and all of the rain drips and splashes in the second. (As a bonus, the holo-billboard with the girl in the background was also created with this same technique...obviously not one of Ron's brushes though.) I prefer this method as the primitives will react accurately to depth of field, etc...rather than trying to fanagle it in post. There are also many pre-made products in the store that essentially are already packaged versions of the same technique.

 Part II:

https://www.daz3d.com/forums/discussion/comment/5327846/#Comment_5327846

I'm glad you like them!

The process begins in Photoshop.  You would create a new document with a black background and then apply the brush on a separate layer and save it (I usually go with png). Then you would load that image onto the plane in DS. The image goes into the base color, emissive, and cutout. (You'll also want to change the gloss color to black.) Obviously, the specific emissive values will need to be tweaked to your specific needs. The reason why we need to have the brushes on the black background (or like I said before, many of Ron's brushes already come with a folder full of overlay files made up on black backgrounds), is so that the cutout will know what needs to be invisible. I hope that helps!

PS - This technique can also be used to make an actual background for your render in DS, rather than using HDRI or adding it in post. Just forego the cutout and load in whatever image you want onto the plane and position as needed (this totally beats out using the backdrop tab). The challenge there, however, is making sure the lighting matches. 

PPS - I also use Adobe Stock to find overlays...those are not free, though...but if you search for "overlay" and whatever you're looking for, be it dust or embers or fog, you'll find tons.

ISIKOL suggests using gradient layers:

https://www.daz3d.com/forums/discussion/comment/482191/#Comment_482191

A good way to use ron brushes is with gradient maps above them...if i had to bet i think this is the way Ron is doing it..what is the procedure...

Take for example a generic cloud brush
In photoshop:
Make a screen layer above your image filled with completely black
Make a gradient map above the screen layer...use a gradient from complete black to red orange and then yellow
Clip the gradient map with the screen layer
Paint with white in the black screen layer...with the cloud brush

See the result :) it looks better with dark backgrounds...

DestinysGarden on using Rons Ripped Fabric Brushes in DAZ by creating an opacity map:

https://www.daz3d.com/forums/discussion/comment/1038526/#Comment_1038526

browse to the texture folder of the texture you wish to modify, and open that in your image editor. Duplicate it so you dont accidentaly save over it. Create a new layer, and stamp your brush in the place you want it, using black.

Put a white layer under the black layer and save that as a jpeg.

Put this new map in the opacity channel, or cutout opacity, and render.

 Tobor elaborates on this method to make it more realistic:

https://www.daz3d.com/forums/discussion/comment/1039253/#Comment_1039253

Brushes are 2D and and often with no tonal gradation, so they can impart a flat "pasted on" look when applied to three dimensional objects. One way to get a better look with a brush set like this, especially when used as an opacity mask in D|S, is to apply the brush with some levels of gray to simulate the effect of shadow and depth. There are several ways of doing this. One method is to "double strike" the brush onto two separate layers, and offset them slightly. Make one a little less opaque. This helps to give the cut-away some depth.

An example of what I'm talking about is shown here. I stamped down a brush at 100% opacity in one layer, duplicated it, offset the dupe slightly, and lowered its opacity to 50%. When the resulting image is used in the Cutout Opacity node (talking Iray here), there's a little more added depth. Adjusting the lighting and "relaxing" the fit of the jeans helps a lot, too. (If you apply a smoothing modifier and get a really tight fit, and can't adjuist it otherwise, you might think about a geometry shell between figure and clothing, to give some space between.)

The point here is that seldom can you simply use a brush as ink over some image, and expect it to look like what you want. It takes some effort -- and usually several layers -- to get something that looks acceptable.

 Pixel8ted comments on the following image from dreamfarmer  (click to enlarge):

https://www.daz3d.com/forums/discussion/comment/2810786/#Comment_2810786 (image post)

https://www.daz3d.com/forums/discussion/comment/2811456/#Comment_2811456

Even if you just took your image and it  duplicated  with the duplicate layer's blend mode changed to overlay, it would really add punch to your image and make those fog brushes sing.  Overlay is going to be too stong on that front tree and that left hand side dark area but that's easily fixed by adding a layer mask and masking out some of the overlay effect with a soft brush and black paint. I've found what works for me is to add some gaussian blur to my mask after painting to get nice blended edge transitions. To add life to that front tree,  add a blank layer; put it into overlay blend mode; add a white or maybe a pale sunny yellow paint with a soft brush to add  light to the front tree...blur paint if desired.  Use opacity or fill slider to control how strong the glow on tree manifests.  Maybe hit up that trunk of tree next to and behind that front tree with a little paint to add some light  to it  too to bring it forward.

 Kharma suggests a YT video i found very helpful:

https://www.daz3d.com/forums/discussion/comment/826916/#Comment_826916

here is a video on using photoshop brushes that might help you...hope I am doing this right so the link works

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=2DK8IgS8fng&list=UUVwRyYe1p7TV5lYZ3pvnCbg&index=10

 Drew Spence uses Ron's Sparks and Embers in 2D Postwork (YT video):

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=FwAhjSVCnLY

 

barbult

@mding thanks for sharing all those bits of info you have gathered.

mding

Many thanks @barbult! I did that also for myself, lol, but i hope it helps NotAnArtist, too.

FirstBastion

Ron Deviney also includes some tutorials in the brushes products themselves.  Some useful information in there too! 

NotAnArtist

mding

mding!!

Wow! Wow wow wow!! Thank you so much, mding! Do you teach Googling? What do you charge? Because I have never even come close to finding such relevant material!

The Photoshop tutorial video itself is precisely what I've needed to get started with some sort of study plan. I finally see how those basic black splotches are converted into colorful, almost 3D images! I woke up miserable this morning and now I'm raring to start digging into all this new material you've provided!

You have probably helped many more than just myself here. Thank you again for helping the community!
                                                               -----------------------------------------

PS regarding Ron Deviney:

I stand by my statements yesterday about the invisible "Ron." He is as mysterious as his brushes.

He has a web site called devineydesigns.com which features those brushes, and which has a link to a site called smugmug.com, which helps photographers show and sell their work.

So maybe he's a professional photographer and lacks the time for dealing with customer issues here. If so, that's OK. My nephew is also a professional photographer, and also lacks the time to answer questions from his poor old uncle:-/

On the other hand, there's a forum thread here called Ron Deviney Appreciation Thread, which started in August 2013 and eventually ended in August 2013. It had about 30 posts. None were posted by the invisible Ron.

He was not obliged to post there. He may not have even known it existed. Maybe he doesn't even exist...

And there you are, I rest my case - he may not actually exist. That's science!

Cheers!
-Ken

NotAnArtist

FirstBastion

I know. Somehow I seem to have purchased the 30 brushes where he had no tutorial:-/

joanna

NotAnArtist said:

PS regarding Ron Deviney:

I stand by my statements yesterday about the invisible "Ron." He is as mysterious as his brushes.

He has a web site called devineydesigns.com which features those brushes, and which has a link to a site called smugmug.com, which helps photographers show and sell their work.

So maybe he's a professional photographer and lacks the time for dealing with customer issues here. If so, that's OK. My nephew is also a professional photographer, and also lacks the time to answer questions from his poor old uncle:-/

On the other hand, there's a forum thread here called Ron Deviney Appreciation Thread, which started in August 2013 and eventually ended in August 2013. It had about 30 posts. None were posted by the invisible Ron.

He was not obliged to post there. He may not have even known it existed. Maybe he doesn't even exist...

And there you are, I rest my case - he may not actually exist. That's science!

Cheers!
-Ken

I'd guess it's because most people don't have issues with his products. Brushes are just brushes, and in most cases, using them comes to experimentation (layering them, using various blend modes or effects). There's no special sauce, and what you do depends on what kind of effect you want to achieve (fog might be better with one of the blend modes while slime or water will work better with some effects like 3d, emboss etc.), so each image and color palette will need something different. Basic brush and other Photoshop (or other art software) tutorials are available on Youtube for free, and the rest is just experimenting.

As for the invisibility... I had him comment on my gallery pictures that utilized his brushes (this one used skull brushes' accents with some 3d/emboss effects, and this one is just layering different color ink brushes), so it would seem to me he is around. Again, I think it's just most people don't have any issues to discuss :).

mding

Thankyou @NotAnArtist, so kind of you - I also love that PS tutorial video and am very greatful for our forumites sharing their knowledge with us!