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Speed... It all comes down to speed.
DAZ Studio is Sloooooowwwwww....
That is what is killing DAZ
Many are moving to realtime rendering in game engines.
JD
Don't confuse Daz with Daz Studio. Daz is the company that sells assets and provides Daz Studio as a platform option for their use. Daz Studio is provided at a cost to Daz. If Daz thought they could sell as many assets without Daz Studio, they should stop supporting Daz Studio. At this point, Daz appears to think that Daz Studio is still important to their business.
Daz encourages us to use platforms other than DS for our projects that include assets bought from the Daz marketplace. In Daz's ideal world, I'm sure they'd rather not have to continue to develop or support Daz Studio at all, and just focus on selling 3D assets.
I'll take my time in Daz Studio over a game engine solution any day.
I would love to have Unity or Unreal native in Daz Studio, mainly because I am heavily invested in VR and already use several sandbox games based off these game engines that use Genesis figures and it's amazing.
For the case of "DAZ isn't art", or "looking down onto", maybe that's a thing. But that's not been the point in any (technically) serious ai discussion i've seen. That should be more like a non-issue, it's like those arguments about nowadays youth [pick your century/decade].
The technical arguments are more tough to solve (e.g. abuse on various levels, unintended consequences, training on what it's competition to [with entropy considerations], scalability).
In my mind this whole discussion is pointless, Ai doesn't give me 3D characters, props and environment that I can set up and pose exactly as I want and doesn't give me the possibility to go back, change some small thing in the scene or use the scene to make a comic strip.
AI is just giving me a picture of something made out of legos, instead of giving me the legos to play with and I like playing with legos
I would like to have Daz Studio native inside Unity.
Finally I am getting more understanding about programming in Unity
and it is much easier for me to create/fix scripts in Unity than in Daz Studio.
Some of my recent thoughts. Different tools for different tasks. Watched a couple 'how to' Blender/AI videos this morning. I see 3d programs like Daz Studio and Poser as potential AI partners. Daz3D the company, not referring at the moment to the Studio program, has rights to a whole library of sets, props, costumes, characters, etc. That library could continue to have value as stable starting points in projects in which people want the same character or settings. Projects like comic strips and animations come to mind. I am only at the very beginning of looking at AI, but I am impressed with the potential of using Blender to block out an idea, and then combining the Blender simple setup with Stable Diffusion or Midjourney or... to help put it together with detail. I hope and assume there is a team of people at Daz3D thinking about the same possibility - using Daz to quickly setup, or block out, a starting point which can then be combined with an AI program for the subsequent steps. Perhaps want a story in which several scenes will be using the same room, but at different times, and with additions and subtractions to only a few details - but consistency is crucial. As graphic input into AI gets refined, in addition to text, a program that can quickly display a specific architectural feature, or some specific poses that are hard to describe with words, etc. could be very useful. So as of this morning, I think AI will help a few 3D programs, and kill some others. Which will Daz Studio be?
@Artini - I loved the piggies.
Clarification. A program like Daz Studio or Poser or Carrara or Bryce or Blender or... can be used for both a quick setup, and for adding detail. I did not mean to imply that it was only for the setup. To me the issue is the role of text vs graphics in AI prompts. Anything that is hard to describe with words, or needs consistency, can benefit from a 3D program that models, poses, or renders assets.
Got to keep in mind though, that AI is just another way of quantizing reality, on our march towards digital feodalism...
Thanks. Piggies looks really good.
Sometimes I get really hungry, watching what ComfyUI create...
exactly
whatever one's stance AI is not going away
it might become more ethical (probably not)
more restrictive (likely) to big companies like Adobe, Getty Images, Shutterstock etc with large licensed databases
so it may come down to adapt, embrace, utilize or go broke
(and console yourself with you were trying to do the right thing by artists living or who may have died 70+ years ago)
I sincerely hope that AI will not be the death of art, in so many forms. Can AI convey passion or the human experience, or compel someone to draw in their breath? I hope artists will always have their audience, but I fear that at least for a while, the "perfection" possible in AI will adversely affect our society as a whole. Children need art and music, it helps them grow into better human beings. Adults need it for many reasons, and participating in an art form can help drive our passion in all things. Will people care if that catchy tune they are streaming came from a human or an AI? Will they care if Maverick movies are made long after Tom Cruise is gone, using AI for his voice and image, or will they just want a thrill for a few hours? Will they care if that perfect-looking person selling them the latest product is real, generated by AI, or painstakingly created by a human artist? I guess we will see.
It doesn't have to be an either/or thing. We can use a program like Daz Studio to set up a scene and then create variations using an image generation program like Stable Diffusion.
That is a good example.
...on the menu for brekkie tomorrow.
This! AI is a tool. If the irresponsible use of AI is what bugs you, then don't as an artist use it irresponsibly in your own work, or don't use it.
I am also creating music on my computer. The latest version of my mastering program has AI capabilities, i.e. I play a section of my song and it analyzes and optimizes the master settings. The outcome is very good, better than what I can achieve on my own.
It saves me the time to become an audio engineer, and probably kills a lot of online mastering services.
What I would want from Daz is an AI that optimizes my settings - lights, characters not on the ground, or too deep into the ground, camera angles ...
But I am sceptical about the future of Daz because
- DeviantArt encourages AI image generation, and is flooded with AI images. Most of them don't qualify as art in my opinion. The downward spiral: less new Daz users -> less sales -> PAs becoming prompt writers -> less content
- Genesis 9 is not a huge leap from Genesis 8. With https://www.daz3d.com/genesis-9-uvs-for-genesis-8-and-81-female I can use G 9 skins on G8, and with this https://www.daz3d.com/mmx-genesis-9-clones-for-all the clothes. Less sales for G9 characters?
- lack of imagination. I've been through the G3/G8 cycles of Egyptians, Orcs, Steampunk and Cyberspace. I don't need another one.
If it makes you happy, use it, otherwise go the other way.
The Piggie is back...
... and piglets are learning to swim.
Valid point and why I stay far away from AI. I tried SD and midjourney and while i liked some of the results, I could clearly see the big picture and how it could be used unethically and irresponsibly, which is why I stopped, Also why I will never recommend or share examples because that would be enabling others that don't have ethics or morals and only think about their own use. I know I can't control what others do, but I don't have to encourage them by telling them is is great or showing great examples either. Unfortunately the nature of AI art is to show it off as evidenced by these AI threads
I think that's a case of noticing something more because you don't like it
I feel the same way about all the threads on maximising boobies on DAZ characters
Isn't that the nature of all art?
...I'm becoming disappointed in DA lately as it seems when just browsing the daily submissions, a larger portion of the works are AI generated (another is an increase in what are obviously screenshots of television, film scenes. and such)
I even brought the profusion of AI in the galleries up in their forums (for all the good it does) wondering if there could be a chance we might get an "AI" filter (similar to the "mature" content one),
There is a profile setting for AI, you can check "suppress AI". It doesn't work 100 %, though.
There is no question about the potential for any 3D-program to incorporate any sort of ai-based functionality (/services), that's not the killing part, instead such might be part of the keep-alive story. Killing would mean, if DAZ3D can't make revenue from selling 3D content, if PAs can't get enough out of the market anymore, and in effect can't continue their work. The software is part of the so-far success-story, but the revenue comes from selling the content. Diminishing returns could follow naturally of the shrinking market part. DAZ may still have quite a few levers to pull, should it get tough (or for forestalling such a moment). In theory, for instance, they could run ai with the PAs content as a base, and all sorts of tools based on that. There may be some advances needed still, but it's not so far off, even if it's not the only thinkable concept. Thus, since people do adapt sometimes, and hopefully they can, there doesn't seem to be a crystal clear outcome for DAZ, from my viewpoint ("DAZ themselves" likely have more/specific insights than me. / Disambiguation: not a certain negative fate, though there may be some mist covering the future steps.).
The ethics questions are pretty crucial, this could turn anything upside down. Some are not even separate from economical arguments, with effects like distribution of market share towards larger players threatening (while they may lose other shares of other markets at the same time, potentially, to be distinguished).
Because it's not just fundamental pieces of artwork that flow into creation of other constructions of artwork, but it's the resulting works that get (half/pretty much) contested by use of ai, potentially to a different magnitude of scale, especially if running without ethical contexts. It'll be possible to quickly mimmick stuff like videos and computer games. While it might previously have just about paid off, to create something similar to a blockbuster or some b-movies (/games), it may now be feasible to contest literally anything below that levels, with the fast and high bandwidth producers winning out this time, thinking of platforms with visibility determined by algorithms. Doesn't mean it'll happen this way, but it could happen, that many people naturally will lose interest in creation, or their funding, forcing bigger content creators to go for subscriptions and binding people to their products pretty much physically, resulting in large players becoming even larger, supposedly.
(I've already hinted at some other implications above, like degrading quality content increasing while at the same time reducing or even destroying prospects of higher quality content, except maybe for the new courts of nobility, who can afford to "profit statistically", plus the training data question. It's much a question about "do we want to live like that", and naturally it hasn't been asked since stone age or so, so maybe we'll just stomp into yet another branch of answers, with open eyes.)
There is routes of "democratization", in terms of less hardware needed, free public data sets, maybe entire free public models, all ethically sound of course (in isolation, i.e. excluding questions of general effects of such a technology, and how we should shape commercial use, etc., possibly variations of data sets with different approaches, all legal of course), e.g. provided by foundations, where training is a bit expensive. That would be great, however that's also rather like another dimension of the potential problems, that we might be facing sooner than later. E.g. the really good fast toolchains for destroying other people's content (pessimistic ploy, i know), will not be available for free, but might allow "content creators with subscription" to bite chunks of anything distantly successful in a whimp.
"Never just use a search engine to find something, always ask you buddy who knows (first)..." - to be continued..
That's not a sensible reason. Daz Studio can be used unethically and irresponsibly. So can cars, the telephone, the internet and even firearms.
I dabbled in SD for a while, but kind of found it boring. Besides, the main attraction with SD as well as LLMs is that stealing other people's stuff is the basis for the whole thing. I mean a large proportion of internet traffic is stolen stuff, but machine learning implementations are pretty much exclusively that. Oh, and let's not forget that it's given rise to digital sweatshops in developing countries, and puts a great strain on energy production and water resources.
Further reading
A.I. usage fuels spike in Microsoft’s water consumption | Fortune