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DAZ Studio Scenes in Carrara

ImagoImago Posts: 5,042
in Carrara Discussion

Hello everybody!

I haven't bought Carrara yet, but some time ago I tried it at friends home and I fell in love with its Particle Emitter, that DAZ Studio still doesn't have.

Somewhere I read something about the possibility to load DAZ Studio .DUF scenes in Carrara like I do in DAZ Studio.

It is possible? And if it's possible, which version I have to buy?

Thanks!

Comments

  • DiomedeDiomede Posts: 15,125
    edited October 2015

    Short answer is "Yes, with adjustments."

    Long answer has a lot of caveats that depend on what you mean by "...just like Studio."

     

    Studio is primarily a 3D asset loading, posing, and rendering program.  You might start with a 3D model of a human, add hair and clothes, load a set (furniture, buildings, trees, ec.), add lighting, and then hit render.  Can Carrara do that with Daz content ?  Yes, (with exceptions, and at the moment one of those exceptions is the Genesis 3 Female).  Ah, but can Carrara do it "Just like Studio"?  No, Carrara does it like Carrara.  As a result, you may need to adjust the textures and shaders of objects, and similar adjustments, if you load a Studio scene.  However, Carrara can load most Dazcontent natively - that is, many of us never open Studio to save a scene out.  What do we do?  Carrara has an assemble room where you might "start with a 3D model of a human, add hair and clothes, load a set (furniture, buildings, trees, ec.), add lighting, and then hit render."

     

    However, yes, for most of the Daz content (other than genesis 3 female), you can load your content in Studio, arrange it how you want, save it out as a scene subset, and then use Carrara's features such as dynamic hair, realistic skies, terrain editors, plant replicators, object modeling, particle emitters, etc. to fill out the scene and then render.  Again, you may want to adjust textures.

     

    Here is a quick example.  I loaded the David 5 character for genesis in Studio.  I added the Orion hair and conformed the 50s casual male outfit, and applied a pose.  I also loaded the pier set.  I then used Studio's "save as" option to save it as a scene subset.  I saved it to the presets folder for scenes.  I opened Carrara, opened my content browser, found the presets folder, and loaded the scene with David 5 genesis on the pier.  In Carrara, I added an infinite plane and applied a water shader, opened a realistic sky preset, inserted sunlight that synced with the sky (and a little other lighting adjustment).  I then hit render 

     

    This is nothing great.  It just shows you that yes, people do use Studio and Carrara together.  I personally prefer to load everything natively in Carrara, but that is not objectively better.  Either way you will want to adjust shaders, etc.

     

    There is some content that does not transfer, and people do express frustrations.  But yes, it only took me 5-10 minutes to render the David 5 on the pier scene (and I'm sure it shows). :>

    1 studio scene genesis posed at pier.JPG
    1333 x 898 - 188K
    3 open saved scene from presets folder.JPG
    1800 x 928 - 192K
    7 test render.jpg
    800 x 600 - 51K
    Post edited by Diomede on
  • TangoAlphaTangoAlpha Posts: 4,584

    Yes you can - mostly. You have to remember though that Carrara and Daz Studio are different programs, with different philosophies, so sometimes it might seem like you're bashing a square peg into a round hole.

    First off, Carrara can open .DUF files natively. There's no DSON or any of that nonsense. It Can also open Poser CR2, CR3 etc files right off the bat. It can handle most content too - props, sets environments, V4/M4, Genesis, Genesis 2 . . .

    Sometimes though, the shaders come out a bit wonky. Square peg, round hole. Tweaking them is pretty straightforward (or there's a 1-click "shader doctor" in the store will do it for you. Sometimes a UV might need fixing up (Stonemason's sets are particularly prone to this). Again, it's a pretty straightforward fix - remember, Carrara gives you complete and unrestricted access to the underlying geometrry.

    There are things that Carrara can't load: HD morphs on Genesis 2, geografts (not quite sure what the deal is here - whether it won't load them, or if it just has problems - cos I've never needed to use them, so didn't pay attention in class that day. Genesis 3. I don't know what happens if you try to load a model with Iray shaders, cos I've never tried it.

    With sets and scenes, it doesn't cope with Instances. It'll load the file, you just won't see the instanced objects. (First Bastion uses instances, others probably do too). But bung in a Carrara surface replicator, and you've probably got something better than the original, for only a few minutes effort.

     

    As for versions, for Genesis / Genesis 2, you need 8.5. Pro is better because it supports 64-bit and does more stuff (and it's often discounted to be cheaper than Std, anyway)

  • ImagoImago Posts: 5,042

    Thanks a lot to both!

    @ Diomede

    I have to point out I'm not going to "put stuff together and hit render"... I truly need Carrara because of its Particle Emitter. I think it's the best among all the competitor thanks to the easy-to-use interface. Anyway you gave me a good hint to improve my renders!

     

    @ TangoAlpha

    I will use basic morphs without HD plugins. Thanks a lot for all the advices!

    A little question: Carrara "base" (not pro) would load the .duf files or it's a feature only of the pro version?

    Ah... I forgot to say I'm an animator, so I need to know if Carrara would acept the animations from the duf file!

  • evilproducerevilproducer Posts: 9,050
    The Standard, non-Pro version of Carrara should load the scenes, but it is important to remember that it is only 32 bit (64 bit is Pro only), there are many features that are Pro only, such as render passes, the Ocean primitive, some vertex modeling features, import and export options, network rendering, etc. I honestly do not recall if the particle emitter is a Standard or Pro feature. I think it is Standard feature, but I'm not 100% certain.
  • DiomedeDiomede Posts: 15,125

    I would also recommend conversing with the good folks at carrarators.    http://bond3d.wix.com/carrarators  

  • ImagoImago Posts: 5,042
    edited October 2015

    @ Evilproducer

    Thanks for the tips!

    @ Diomede

    It will be my next step, thanks man!

    @ Everyone

    I gave a look at the store and I've seen Carrara for 65 bucks. It's the standard or the pro version? Somebody knows about it?

    Post edited by Imago on
  • aspinaspin Posts: 219

    Its the Pro version.

    http://www.daz3d.com/carrara-8-5-pro

     

  • ImagoImago Posts: 5,042

    Ah, very good!

    I'm going to buy it... But now I have got the doubt about the new DAZ's delivery system. As I can see it looks like the new library will be uncompatible with Carrara...

    There are some way to use Carrara with the new content or I just have to download everything before the full tranfer and create a folder just for Carrara?

  • ImagoImago Posts: 5,042

    Nobody here? I need some more help, please!

    Before I can buy Carrara there are a last thing I need to know... There are the possibility to obtain this effect in render?

    I set the Diffuse Color and the Reflection Color to 0-255-0, then I put the Reflection strenght to 100%. I use this method in DAZ to create masks for many purposes. The model blends perfeclty with the background when set to the same color.

    It's possible?

    Appunti01.jpg
    862 x 557 - 186K
  • evilproducerevilproducer Posts: 9,050

    Masks of the figure? For later compositing?

    You can do that in Carrara, although the terms in the Texture Room may be different. We can walk you through it though. It's not complicated.

    Depending on what you are trying to do, there may be easier ways. Ways that Carrara has, that Studio does not, or would need a plugin to do.

    For instance, Carrara has a built in shadow catcher. Not only does it catch shadows, but it can also act as a mask. Since it is a lighting model in the Texture Room, it can be applied as a shader. The object with the shadow catcher applied will look invisible, and anything in the scene that passes behind the object, will be hidden from view. If only part of the object behind the object with the shadow catcher is obscured, the obscured part will be hidden and the rest visible. If you don't want the object with the shadow catcher to cast its own shadows or (ironically) receive shadows, but act strictly as a mask, that can be done as well.

    Carrara Pro also can render with an alpha channel, either straight alpha or pre-multiplied. Carrara Pro also has various render passes which can be used to add effects, create masks or isolate scene elements for postwork in a still image editor or video editor/compositor, such After Effects, Sony Vegas, Final Cut Pro, etc.

  • ImagoImago Posts: 5,042
    evilproducer said:

    Masks of the figure? For later compositing?

    You can do that in Carrara, although the terms in the Texture Room may be different. We can walk you through it though. It's not complicated.

    Depending on what you are trying to do, there may be easier ways. Ways that Carrara has, that Studio does not, or would need a plugin to do.

    For instance, Carrara has a built in shadow catcher. Not only does it catch shadows, but it can also act as a mask. Since it is a lighting model in the Texture Room, it can be applied as a shader. The object with the shadow catcher applied will look invisible, and anything in the scene that passes behind the object, will be hidden from view. If only part of the object behind the object with the shadow catcher is obscured, the obscured part will be hidden and the rest visible. If you don't want the object with the shadow catcher to cast its own shadows or (ironically) receive shadows, but act strictly as a mask, that can be done as well.

    Carrara Pro also can render with an alpha channel, either straight alpha or pre-multiplied. Carrara Pro also has various render passes which can be used to add effects, create masks or isolate scene elements for postwork in a still image editor or video editor/compositor, such After Effects, Sony Vegas, Final Cut Pro, etc.

    Ah, very good... Carrara looks like to be the final piece I need to complete my projects!

    I need such a thing because I have to create a gory scene for a customer. In a scene, a man stabs another guy and the blood sprays on the killer's face and suit. Since DAZ Sudio doesn't have any kind of built-in particle or metaball system the only way for me is to make the blood in Carrara using a mask and then mix up the blood with the final scene in Vegas. I spent a lot of time making the animations in DAZ, it's unthinkable to redo everything in Carrara...

    Ah, right! The particles can be "attached" toa figure? I mean, if the particles hits a figure, can I make them glue to it on impact?

    Thanks a lot for your time and patience!

  • ImagoImago Posts: 5,042

    I bought Carrara and tried that "Shadow Catcher" thing... But it doesn't work properly!

    The models are completely invisible and the shadows on them are good, but it doesn't mask the visible models that passes behind them!

    What I did wrong?

    Please help me!

  • evilproducerevilproducer Posts: 9,050
    edited November 2015

    Screen shots of the shadow catcher shader could help. Also a sample frame of the animation showing the object not being masked could help.

    To show that it can be done, this video uses a shadow catcher on a plane and on animated grass blades. The blades in front of the dinosaur mask the portions of the dinosaur behind the grass. The grass actually is invisible, and when composited with the background video, looks as if it takes its color from the video.

    You may be able to get metaball particles to stick by lowering the bounce of the particles and increasing the friction of the particles. You may also need to adjust other settings such as attraction, etc. It is important to note, that you will also probably need to adjust the physical surface properties of the models the particles are hitting if you want them to stick. If you are using Genesis or later, select the Actor and look for surface properties or something similar under the Effects tab (I think). If you are using earlier figures, select, Model under the figure's hierarchy. You will want to turn down bounce, and increase friction.

    This isn't blood or spatter, but it does use several metaball particle emitters to write, "fast," on a surface.

    Post edited by evilproducer on
  • ImagoImago Posts: 5,042
    edited November 2015

    Thanks, I didn't notice those option on the models, I'll try!

    For the shadow catcher I'll prepare some example of what I obtain (yesterday I deleted everything out of delusion...)

    *EDIT*

    Forgot that, I solved by myself! I mistakenly unticked the "Visible" option on the model. Now everything works fine!
    Thanks for the help everyone!

    Just a last question: Where can I get Carrara Pro Beta? The store page says that's free for every Carrara Pro owner...

    Post edited by Imago on
  • evilproducerevilproducer Posts: 9,050
    Does it say the version number of the beta?
  • ImagoImago Posts: 5,042

    It's this: http://www.daz3d.com/carrara-8-5-beta

     

  • TangoAlphaTangoAlpha Posts: 4,584

    That beta has since been released, and is the current 8.5.1. I don't know why they left it in the store afterwards - maybe something about the way that DIM works.

  • ImagoImago Posts: 5,042
    edited November 2015

    In my account it doesn't appear... Well, probably I'm not eligible for that! I hoped in that beta since Carrara is awfully slow in the Assemble room when I "try" to see the animation preview... Even if there are just a motionless cube, it stutters mostruously... And DAZ plays a whole environment smoothly (A whole forest with 350 trees, six lights, one Uberlight, one pond with water effects and reflections and an huge tower!). I have to set something ther right way?

    In the meanwhile I followed all your advices and I have been able to import (Piece by piece since the Scene Subset doesn't work!) the whole scene, ready to create the particles for my project! The last thing I have to achieve is the "sticky blood". I tried many times but the particles doesn't want to stick to the figures and walls. Plus they goes everywhere when the char turns his head.

    I put Bouce to 0% and friction to 100% in both emitter and char without any result... I know it's possible because I saw a video about it, some time ago...

    Post edited by Imago on
  • ImagoImago Posts: 5,042

    There's no way to achieve that? Please answer me!

  • evilproducerevilproducer Posts: 9,050
    You mean the spatter sticking to walls? I haven't had the time to try this yet.
  • ImagoImago Posts: 5,042

    Yes, walls and chars. I tried many times but always the blood flows away like on a extremely slippery surface! And when the char moves, the drops goes everywhere...

    I hope someone could help me,  but I'm starting to think is unoadble despite the video I saw time ago.

  • DiomedeDiomede Posts: 15,125

    Could you turn the room 90 degrees so that the wall is the floor, rotate the camera, and render sideways?

  • ImagoImago Posts: 5,042
    diomede said:

    Could you turn the room 90 degrees so that the wall is the floor, rotate the camera, and render sideways?

    It will work only partially... Yes, the blood will look better on the rotated wall, but the blood will look bad since the gravity acts on the emitter from "behind" the jet and not more from "above"... Nice suggestion anyway, probably I will do this in some other render in the future!

  • evilproducerevilproducer Posts: 9,050

    And you increased the friction for the emitter in the emitter editor and also the friction on the walls?

    Another tack to take could be to disable scene gravity and instead add a directional force to your scene, then in the emitter editor, you may be able to disable gravity, and choose the option to use scene forces.

    The scene gravity cannot be keyframed, but the forces you add to your scene, such as a directional force can be keyframed for the direction of the force and the intensity of the force. You could enable the force to simulate gravity for the emitter spattering the wall, then keyframe the force down to zero, or aim it so that it points straight at the wall and holds the spatter in place. You could even use the scene gravity, and keyframe direction and strength of the force to counter-act the effects on the particles.

    A vendor here named Dimension Theory may have a video tutorial about particles on youtube. It's a few years old, so I don't know if it is still up, but if you search for his name on youtube, you may come across his channel.

    Dimension Theory didn't do blood spatter, but he did have particles adhere to animated figures and then fly off of them.

  • ImagoImago Posts: 5,042

    Ok, thanks! I'll look for that video!

    In the meanwhile I found a strange plugin, PyCloid: http://www.f1oat.org/pycloid/index.html

    It looks to be years old... And have magnets! Could it help?

  • evilproducerevilproducer Posts: 9,050
    It's a Python script plugin or something. I'm on a Mac, and Pycloid is PC, so I have no experience with it, unfortunately.
  • DUDUDUDU Posts: 1,945
    edited November 2015

    I like Pycloid a lot, it should be better in this case...

    https://www.daz3d.com/forums/discussion/56326/pycloid-for-carrara-particle-system-plugin-render-and-discussion-thread/p1

    Post edited by DUDU on
  • ImagoImago Posts: 5,042

    So PyCloid is the solution? Thanks or the link, I'll read everything!

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