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The joy of content is finding weird uses for it. ;)
I make heavy use of Marshian's Ocean Wide for a dizzying array of things that have nothing to do with oceans... (sand dunes, grassy hills, clouds... )
Oh yes, and I love Ocean Wide. It is one of the most versatile products I own and use! But then, Marshian has great products, and I own all but 5 of them. And 4 of those are wishlisted. The only reason the last one isn't wishlisted is because it is for poser and I own the ds version.
I love Iray and I do SO much better in it than I can manage in 3Delight so far. I played with Above the Fog a lot (a LOT!!!) trying to get the look I wanted for the snow in my Winter Cabin scene. A lot of that time was playing with putting textures on the Fog or creating a Geometry Shell on the fog and putting a texture on that until I finally got the look I wanted. I have so many different snow textures created with Filter Forge that I might be set for life when it comes to different snow textures.
Okay, so I've been really bummed about this product and how I haven't managed to get the fog as transparent and whispy as it can get in 3Delight. So I've been playing around with settings and just doing everything I could to get that nice fog look that has some variation in it so that it doesn't just look like a fog blanket with very little thick/thin spots as it were. Sometimes, I get some of my best off the wall ideas late at night. And, when I hit on my latest idea to try and it worked, I'm amazed that no one has done it because the answer was SO UNBELIEVEABLY EASY!!!! So, I'm uploading my latest WIP to see what you think of my latest results with Above the Fog. I stopped this render after about an hour and only 50% percent rendered, but it shows what I was able to do with the fog fairly well. Keep in mind that this is still just a WIP. I'm still doing experiments and I have more maps to try out, but the 'trick' was to put a texture in the Opacity Map. Since I have Filter Forge it was easy to make my own texture maps for different types of opacity. If anyone likes what they see, I'm more than happy to share the opacity maps that I came up with. This was rendered in Iray with one of my opacity maps and with the Diffuse Strength dialled down to 0.50, Translucency Weight is at 0.20, and I have a light grey color set as the Base Color. I have the Emission Color set at a light grey, as well, with Emission Temperature set at 10 and the Luminance set at 10 with the Luminance Units set at cd/m^2.
So it's a fog with a geoshell that has variable cutout (opacity)? Clever!
Hey Knittingmommy- you're really thinking outside the box here, love that. I tried some opacity masks to break it up and add some variety but I couldn't get it to look great from every angle so I had to ditch the idea.
One of things I noticed for the Iray prop is that I got softer effects when the main light source was pointing in a similar direction as the camera. Do you have the Render Settings/Auto Headlamp on in this render? It looks like you might and that would soften the fog a great deal. Have to be careful with it though as it can flatten out the scene.
Thanks for posting your results!
Will -
Well, this particular render has the opacity map directly on the cutout (opacity) for the fog not on a geoshell, but I'm experimenting with the geoshell as well. While I can get the patchy part of the fog, I'm still trying a few different methods to achieve that wispy effect a the upper edges. I tried implementing multiple geoshells on the fog prop and that gave me blurry lines and more of a wispy effect instead of hard edges, but also gave me weird geometry on the resulting texture that was unexpected and I couldn't figure out how to resolve. I thought, theoretically, I could have as many geoshells on the fog as I wished, but that doesn't seem to be true. If I can get rid of the unwanted texture then the result would be a nice acceptable fog wispier fog in Iray. I'm not real satisfied with the hard line that Iray gives the fog. Camera angles and lighting seem to be a key factor in downplaying the lines. However, I'm not sure if I'll succeed in getting the truly wispy effect I'm seeking. Trying, though.
Here is a render which uses a geoshell on the fog prop. Both the fog prop and the geoshell have their own opacity map which is slightly different. I set Glossy Color Effect to 'Scatter and Transmit' and that gives a slightly different effect that I like. All props are in the same position and lighting is also the same with the exception that I accidentally lowered the fog prop slightly and didn't realize it and then couldn't go back to change it in the exact position because it was out of undo memory. The only real change is the addition of the geoshell with it's opacity map and then the 'Scatter and Transmit' settings and the opacity settings are slightly different. I think I have Backscattering turned to 0.27. I'm still playing with settings until I get something I like with the Nvidia preview and then I try a full on render. Although, I usually stop the render early. One of the disadvantages with Iray is that it takes quite awhile to render and I'm using CPU only. Most of my test renders I'm letting go to about 50% as that goes long enough for me to see what effect a particular setting has had. Sometimes, if it is particularly horrible, I have stopped even earlier.
@Marshian I'm glad you are happy about my posting of my results. I was a little afraid that no one else would be interested in my experimentation. As for the lighting, I have found this to be true, as well, which I have to say really bummed me out. However, the workaround seems to be using HDRI lighting as the main source of lighting. The headlamp is OFF in the above render and all of my renders. The only lighting source is coming from the HDRI lighting with the skydome (Iray Worlds Skydome) along with the sunlight that comes from the included distant light. I have noticed that the further away the fog prop is from the camera the wispier and fluffier the fog appears which is a nice effect. I have not yet tried DOF to see what effect that might have as I'm still trying to get opacity maps and surface settings to implement my desired effects. Once I'm happy with those, I have a feeling that DOF will also aid in the illusion of a wispy fog like substance. I'm still playing around trying to figure out the best opacity maps. I've made some with Filter Forge and with Gimp. I've found that both work, but I think I'm leaning more heavily with result of opacity maps I made with Gimp. It is still a study in progress, though.
The following 3 renders have exactly the same settings. The only difference is camera angle. The only lighting the HDRI from the skydome and sun. With these settings, I have noticed that camera angle isn't as much of a hazard as it is when using other lighting methods.
I have to put this away for a little bit. I haven't started my render for this month's New User contest and I promised myself that I would attempt to conquer 3Delight this month so I can't use my experiments with your fog and Iray. On a good note, I'm happy to say that my Winter Cabin managed to make it on the leader board of the gallery this morning. It was kicked off for most of the day and is back on the leader board again. I don't think I could have gotten the render to turn out quite so well without Above the Fog. It really helped to make it my best render to date. So, thank you for making such a great product. I'm not done with it and I have a feeling that Above the Fog and Ocean Wide (my other favorite product of yours) will become a mainstay in my library and get a lot of use.
As far as I'm aware of, if you use cutout at all, SSS stops working. SO there's that...
I haven't a clue. I didn't fiddle with any SSS settings and left them where they were. I'm still unsure exactly what those do or what effect changing them does in any given project. Does that have something to do with the 'Scatter and Transmit' setting?
The actual fog effect, the milky fogginess, is created by subsurface scattering.
Now, a simple semi-opaque surface can often look passingly close to fog/steam, which is what is often done in 3DL. And, frankly, it's often a good thing to try in Iray, too, because actual SSS takes a lot of processing.
There are a lot of accurate effects that aren't actually worth the effort, because nobody notices the difference. It's a matter of learning when that is likely to be.
Well, I have to admit that I haven't learned a lot about some things yet. In regard to this project, I'm flying blind because I don't know what is or isn't suppose to happen when I decide to play with the sliders in the surface settings tab. I just try something one at a time and see what happens. I try to keep some notes, but I'm not the most organized when it comes to remembering what I did in any particular render. For this project, I'm keeping tabs on things that made a difference, or at least thought made a difference, I liked on a post it sticky app on my computer. I, also, have to admit that something I tried at 3 am and thought was a grand idea might not really have been all that great when I look at it again at a more reasonable hour. I almost didn't post my first post because it was late and I was afraid it didn't really look as good as I was thinking it did at almost 2 am. The more I played with it today the more I think I might be heading in the right direction. I've had a few trials that ended horribly, but I think I've had some successes, too. I'm going to put it away for a few days and let it marinate in the back of my brain while I work on my newest contest entry whatever that ends up being because I still haven't figured that out yet. I just know it will be in 3Delight and I can't say that I'm looking forward to it because I am not proficient in it yet at all.
Okay, so I tried doing a render with two fog props today to see how that does instead of using the geoshell. I'm liking how it is working out so far. It is starting to look a little more wispy especially in the distance. The bottom layer is the layer that has the more noticeable holes in the fog although not as noticeable once the new top layer is added. The top layer has some holes, but not much. I do like the overall effect. The main problem I have is the color of the fog now. I can't seem to keep the white color, but just more transparent. I will have to play arounnd with the fog in 3Delight which I'm ashamed to say I haven't actually done as yet. So, with this post, I will be seeing how to use this in 3Delight and then come back to Iray to see if I can manage the color equation.
Okay, I think I've figured out the color issue. I'm pretty pleased with my latest efforts in Iray. Now, I just need to come up with better opacity maps than the ones I just threw together to test out. Now that I know how the 'holes' in th fog look and how the 'color' works, I think I can get something really close to the look I wanted acheive. I, also, played with the deformer a little because I hadn't done that yet. Let me know what you think, good or bad. I did darken the lighting on my skydome to give it more of a nighttime effect so that the lighting and the fog showed up a little better. Please be honest. I think it is looking better, but I might be a little delusional since I seem to have become obsessed with this project. If you don't want to see anymore posts, let me know and I'll politely go away, too. I don't want to bore anyone with my current obsession.
Keep in mind that I didn't let these render out fully, but stopped them at about 50 percent rendered. I think I'm actually going to bed early for a change.
So, I went back into Gimp now that I think I understand how the opacity maps work better. I have a better understanding how to get the look I want and it is easier to do in Gimp with some smoke brushes I have. So, here is the latest. Rendered in Iray with two layers of fog, each with the same opacity mask, but with different tile setups. @Marshian I'm sending you the latest, and I think, best opacity mask so far. Of course, I've been working on this so long now that it might not look as good as I think it does so I'm taking a short break from this and I'll regroup. I won't post anything else unless I get something really earth shatterly good.
@Marhsian I just don't seem to know when to give up. I'm not ready to show a render, but I thought I would let you know something I learned about the fog and geoshells, that I didn't know. You and Will might know this, but I didn't. Did you know that you can create a geoshell for an object and it will copy all of the original's attributes, but doen't have to be parented to the original object? And, did you know you can put an opacity map on the geoshell and it won't make any effect whatsoever on the original? This means it also doesn't change the color like or do weird things like when you change the opacity slider on the original fog. And, did you know that those holes in the geoshell, if you place an opacity map in Cutout Opacity, show up really nicely while letting the original fog show through while showing off all of that lovely foggy goodness? And the opacity slider seems to work? And, did you, also, know that you can move that geoshell independently of the original fog with no impact to the fog, at all, which makes it super easy to move the shell around and line up the holes you want to show off the original fog layer? Just some things to think about. I HIGHLY suggest you give it a try.
Let me just say that I'm EXTREMELY pleased with the results so far and actually like what I'm seeing so far. I'm working on a new opacity map based on these new findings. I think if I can get this going like I think it will based on my new knowledge and pair it up with the AtmoCam for Iray that it is going to turn out even better than I had hoped when I first started trying to get the nice foggy effect I was wanting in Iray.
edit: if you DO try this, be patient. Things look really wonky for the first 10 minutes or so, but then things even out and the true patterns start to emerge around the 15 minute mark.
I can imagine where this is headed, very cool. Thanks for all the passionate tinkering!
I have a bad habit of being like a dog with bone sometimes and I just don't know how to stop until I get something to do what I want. I have a render going that I'm going to let run full out. So far, the new opacity map looks promising. If it looks as good when it has finished rendering, and I think it might judging by what I'm seeing right now, I will start to work on lighting and the textures for my castle and do an actual full artistic render and see how it goes.
That's not a bad habit. ;)
Ha! Will, I guess that depends on if you ask my husband or not.
So, @Marshian Latest test render. It took me a little while to get the opacity map right. I'm just learning how to do my own textures and making them seamless when needed. It took me a few go rounds to finally get one of the looks I wanted to achieve in Iray with your fog. I think it looks pretty good.
This render was stopped at about 47%. I think it is a huge improvement over my first attempts. Now it is time to start playing with lighting and adding characters and other stuff to make a real render with this. I hope you like what you see. Let me know if you want me to send you a copy of the latest opacity maps. This one isn't seamless, but once I saw how this turned out, I went in and made it a little more seamless. This is tiled at 2 horizontal by 20 vertical tiles with the map on the geoshell and the fog layer underneath set at the Iray preset for light density fog.
Let me know what you think. I'll let you know when I get a final render of something up in my gallery. If all goes well, probably by the weekend.
It's really great to follow your progress with this render - thank you so much for sharing the test steps. You've reminded me there's quite a lot about DAZ I don't know yet, so one of *my* projects in the next couple of weeks / months will be to dig a bit deeper into the possibilities of the programme.
Sometimes, I love the process and figuring things out more than I do an actual render. It is nice, though, to have an excellent render once I'm finished. Hopefully, with all of this experimentation, I'll end up with a dynamite render. I'll be working on this over the weekend. Rendering a background cityscape at the moment for another render I've been working on while sorting through how to get the opacity maps to have the effect I wanted in Gimp. Once it is done rendering, I can work in DS again.
Hey @Marshian I'm having some issues with this in iray in the current version of DAZ. Whenever I try to apply any of the materials to it (colour, puff sizes, etc) all it does it change the fog to an opaque black.