(non-issue) Is it fair to replicate promo images for a library index?
Astraffel
Posts: 211
edit: As I don't want to waste anyone's time, I think I figured out what I'll try to do. Anyone's thoughts on the topic are entirely welcome. I may have just needed to work it out outside of my head. Sorry, for the waste of a thread!
// Original Post //
I keep thinking about rendering my own versions of promotional images for the products I've purchased. That way I'm not keeping a bunch of images I don't have usage rights to, even though it would only be for an index of my product library. I figure that I could relatively quickly replicate the overall composition of the ones I want as well as get to alter the things I really don't like.
What I was wondering is whether that would technically be an IP infringement anyway?
I could try to change more. It's just a matter of extra time. It seems entirely harmless, yet I'd appreciate a second opinion.
All I've found vaguely related so far is this thread from 2014...
https://www.daz3d.com/forums/discussion/43315/downloadable-promo-images-is-there-a-following
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Hmm... Some of the promos I'm going over do have really useful technical information though. I don't know if it really matters if it's just for reference.
edit1: I think I'm just overthinking the idea.
edit2: I think I'll have to forget the idea or alter it. Even if I cleared a single render for each product in ten minutes (including render time) and did that for a full day, it would take over a week to complete. If I wanted on average, a half dozen renders, it would take around a month and a half at that rate.
edit3: However, I do like the idea of seeing how my own characters look in each environment and various wardrobe options. That would have value as an index, screen tests, and optional use as assets. Since many vendors have their files setup specifically to replicate promos, I don't think my original concern is a major problem. It would at least have a foundation of authenticity. I keep going back and forth, yet it seems a fair investment and should at least be very good practice before fully diving into animation.
Anyway, I do apologize for the rambling back and forth to myself. I may edit the original post to prevent anyone else from wasting their time. Any council is welcome, yet feel free to ignore this as well. I think I have a rough plan for moving forward.
If you are intend to use a promo image for nothing more than a personal reference for your purchased products, I wouldn't lose any sleep about downloading a promo image for that purpose.
Yeah, you're probably right. As long as it's not being redistributed in any way, I doubt anyone would care, much less know. Internally debating the principle was breaking my brain.
I download all the promo images of the products I buy, as then I have some reference to use when browsing products that will fit what I need. I am pretty sure I am not breaking any rules, and I don't share the images anywhere.
I'm trying to collect them all as a starting place but already feeling overwhelmed. With just under 600 installs I may end up with around 6,000 promos to sort through. I'll need to figure out an efficient and logical system.
edit: Thanks for your inputs, by the way! It put my mind a bit at ease.
What the others above have said is appropriate, especially since you're only using the images for help in your personal use to keep track of your stash.
If you install using DIM, many of the products come with their own images. The files are normally stored in your "../Documents/My DAZ 3D Library/Runtime/Support" folder. I've got over 17k products over the years and found that there are frequently--lots of errors--with that system:
I hope that helps.
I do as many of the others above do. Although I install via DIM though, I also download the promo image and the zip file(s) for a product. I save the downloaded zip file(s) and promo image in a backup location - usually one folder per product. I'll combine a family of products into one main folder with subfolders, though; for example, if a product and an expansion (textures, for example) are two separate products, I'll store them in the same main folder.
I also save a copy of the downloaded prom image in another folder of product pics that is further divided into folders base on theme - for example, characters, environments, poses, sci-fi, steampunk, vehicles, etc. For products for which I do not have a promo image (very old products for which I may not have downloaded the promo image when I bought them 10 - 15 years ago and/or no longer have a store page, products that may have had no promo image (some freebies), etc.), I load a representative prop/figure, etc. into Daz Studio, make a quick render, and save that. Having images in themed folders allows me, when needed, to scan through them visually to find a product whose name I may not remember more quicky than scanning names of products.
I do the same with content from Renderosity and other third-part sites.
My system is not perfect (no system is) but it does help me tremendously.
Thank you both for your advice and examples! Lot's of food for thought there.
Regarding the webp headache, while my current version of windows 10's photo app suddenly seems to support webp, I randomly discovered that ms edge is letting me change to jpg or png (haven't tried other formats) from the "save image as" menu. I was using the ms paint conversion method before. Way easier this way. No idea if there are any issues caused by doing this. I recently switched from using chrome to edge and firefox.
edit: spelling / double typed a word
update: 589 installs >> 5,945 images
I'm surprised at how spot on my estimate of ten each was! Yet I'm not entirely sure if I'll simply curate and archive them or slowly replicate and delete them. May be wise to start with the archive and experiment with my own renders after.
It does appear to be random as to what images in the DAZ3D store want to download in the webp format – the product image file could be old or new. I discovered the webp format in late 2020 when I wanted to post a reply to a thread and attach an image from the store. I discovered that the DAZ3D forums don’t allow the webp format for image attachments! I posted about this in December 2020 - https://www.daz3d.com/forums/discussion/460581/attaching-webp-image-to-discussion#latest.
Late last year, I learned something from a YouTube video by Jay Versluis on his WP Guru channel that you can change the format of an image file before download by selecting All Files as the Save As type and then changing the file suffix from webp to jpg, png or whatever you need. The browser (I am using the Edge browser.) does the file conversion during the download. See the attached images as an example of webp promo image download for a product that was just released in the store today.
Yep! That's almost exactly what I was doing. Except that I was not bothering to switch that dropdown to all. I merely edited the extension which seemed to work. Good to know I'm not breaking anything!
Curiously, across hundreds of products and thousands of images this was the only one I found using png format: https://www.daz3d.com/cb-luna-spell-outfit-hat-for-genesis-8-and-81-females
It seems to be a thing that vendor did for all of the detail focused images. Perhaps due to png being lossless.
PRODUCT MANAGER FOR DAZ3D
This product by Taosoft will download an offline catalog of your purchased products complete with all promo images for each if you desire.
In my opinion, it is a great tool and a huge time saver!
You can check out all of the features here:
https://3dcontentmanagers.com/products/pm-daz/pm-daz.html
I use that to download my product images too, and it saves me a huge amount of time. However it is not available for purchase right now.
No, new EU rules have made it very complex to sell software the usual way, they're more or less forcing you to go the subscription way now, so I'm trying to see if there are other solutions. I'd prefer to make everything free and then rely on donations which would make things a lot simpler but how that would turn out economically I have no idea. In any case, I hope to have a solution to it all before the end of this year.
I'm not seeing any indication in the general information here or the linked PDF https://europa.eu/youreurope/business/running-business/intellectual-property/licensing-selling/index_en.htm
Well the issue is that before the new rules which took effect in 2022, electronically distributed (via internet etc.) copies of software (contrary to software on hard media (CD/DVD/Flash Drives etc.)) were considered a service. Now it's considered a commodity/good just like software on hard media, which means that (at least in my country) you now need an export license to sell it on a global scale - unless you choose the subscription option, which is considered a service because the user doesn't own the software. That export license is making things a lot more complex. A big business can just hire an accountant to take care of things, but for indie developers and artists and the like it's a lot of extra work.
https://www.traverssmith.com/knowledge/knowledge-container/why-it-matters-whether-software-is-goods-or-services/
Thank you, I see the issue.
That sucks. I wish you luck with that however you will go. I will donate if thats the option you chose!
Thank you!
My Microsoft Photos app has recently been crashing when opening many of the images in my promo index. I suspect an issue with a recent update.
It only seems to be happening to jpg files with a bit depth of 32. Those with 24 work fine and MS Paint seems to convert and fix that. It appears to correlate with the webp files I converted to jpg through MS Edge.
I'm internally debating waiting for a fix that may never come or starting the process of converting 1,300 files through MS Paint and just using that method moving forward.
edit: I'm about a third of the way through converting my index. It's not taking too long. I'll run anymore through MS Paint to be safe in the future. Curiously, Paint didn't seem to recognize the webp-to-jpg files and would default the export extension to heic format. Those files also throw up a warning about losing transparency when exporting as jpg. I wonder if that's what the 32 bit depth is for, the alpha layer that others like png have. Anyway, it was likely an error from MS Edge, yet it's still strange that MS Photos worked for a while.