FaceGen Pulled From Store
zombiewhacker
Posts: 683
in The Commons
I have FaceGen in my product library but the link no longer points to a DAZ store page. FaceGen also does not show up in my store search either.
Given that the latest version also works with G9 I was hoping that Singular Inversions would be providing an update here. Instead, it looks like I'll need to go directly to their site now.
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When I updated to the latest version not too long ago, I did it entirely through the vendor's site - ironically, considering that FaceGen is why I started using Daz to begin with back a couple of years ago.
It's available to buy at their site for US $130 new or less as an upgrade, to varying degrees, if you had bought FaceGen Artist Pro recently enough.
Sadly this happens with some great products sometimes. I'll never stop singing PWToon's praises even though that long disappeared from the store.
...and there's this (never tried Facegen, so I don't really know what it does or doesn't do)
The products are sufficiently different that there are FG vs FT factions here on the forums... For the record, I now use both in my workflow.
Face Transfer has never been updated since its launch in 2019. It can only do Genesis 8. It can't even do Genesis 8.1. Facegen has updated numeous times since, including support for Genesis 8.1 and 9, and already had support for Genesis 1, 2, 3 and of course 8.
Face Transfer is also useless without buying the Face Transfer Morph Pack, as that pack's main goal is to fix the flawed morph that Transfer produces (it creates a face that is comically flat)
Wow. I guess I'm lucky not having to mess with either. But for what it's worth, I'm bummed for you all that it's being pulled. Being a Carrara artist, I can sympathize, though I was in the game long enough to have gotten my hands on Most of the Carrara supplements before they got pulled. But it sucks for anyone new to Carrara. Aged as it is, it's an excellent suite - especially for animating anything and everything in the scene with built-in animation controls. Oops. Ranting.
Point is, I know what it's like when something we really like gets culled. It's sad and makes it more difficult to get others to follow that path. And togetherness and art go pretty darned good together.
well at least they can still buy it off site unlike most of the gone Carrara stuff
but we are getting off track
As a counter voice, I will note that Face Transfer (1.5.0.5) does do G8.1. It pops a gratuitous warning if you're doing a G8.1 male, but you can click through and it works fine. There are a few essential steps to making the figure that is initially created workable, including using the separate Face Transfer Shapes product. I then use ManFriday's Figure Converter for Genesis 9 to get the resulting FT shape to G9. Current FaceGen creates G9 characters directly but I simply do not like the squirrel face that FaceGen creates, and I gave up on using it after a few months when I could not make reasonable figures for some of my characters with it. Someone else's tastes and preferences may differ, so I'm just stating my opinion.
However ... Outrider42 makes the valid point in other threads on this subject that FaceGen offers an important feature that FT does not - you can select alternate base textures,so long as they are appropriate for the Genesis version. FaceGen also seems much more forgiving of relics like shadows and highlighting in the original source image than Face Transfer is. I have spent a lot of time experimenting with FaceGen-sourced textures in recent times and am currently using a workflow that uses Face Transfer-originated shape and FaceGen-originated textures on G9. For the moment, I find that both products are essential to my custom character creation process.
This is one I did yesterday as part of testing some new products. He's G9 with Face Transfer shape (including about 20% Dain 9) and FaceGen base textures.
As, we are told, a taste of things to come see http://docs.daz3d.com/doku.php/public/software/dazstudio/4/change_log#4_22_1_8
off topic to this thread but triplaner is mentioned
should solve some UV mapping issues using other textures on weirdly mapped stuff
Where that link took me - it's a whole pile of animation fixes, updates and improvements! So Cool!!! Then I scrolled up and saw some fixes for Face Trans.
I have to hand it to these devs. There's nothing easy about what they do - especially to make it work on everyones computer... kudos to those fine folks!
Letting their coffee get cold making my life much better. So cool of them!
It's disappointing to hear that. Given G9's higher polygon base mesh, I was hopeful that FaceGen would do a better job of creating heads that match the original reference photos. Evidently, FaceGen Modeller does a better job of generating faces, but there's no way to import those meshes into Genesis, hence FaceGen Artist.
Two tricks I have found working with Artist that improves results somewhat:
One, before taking my reference photos into Artist, I prepare them in an art program like Gimp or Photoshop, marking the exact points where the edge of the lips are, the tip of the nose, etc. This way, after bringing them into Artist and attempting to mark these same reference points, I don't have to simply "wing it" by guessing. Instead I click on the dots created previously in the art program.
Also, crazy as it sounds, I find that the bigger your monitor is, the better your results tend to be. Again, this has to do with how precise your point placement is while marking up the reference photos. I've marked up the same reference photos on my 13" laptop screen and again on my 27" monitor. The character created on my 27" monitor came out as less grotesque and cartoonish than the results on my laptop, though still not great.
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Didn't know FT could do 8.1, interesting. There are times when Face Transfer is fine and does a bit better than Facegen. It adds a bit of eyebrow on outside corners, which Facegen tends to miss. But I rather dislike how Face Transfer blends the face into the texture much of the time. As I said before, it Face Transfer has a habit of making clown faces. Of course, Face Transfer is much cheaper, so there's that.
It is good that Daz is fixing an issue with Face Transfer, that gives some hope that maybe they will update it someday to improve it. But I honestly don't have faith in that. It is irritating, because when Face Transfer first released, I was excited for it. I had hoped that by being a first party plugin that it would get more updates and possibly get some cool features. However that never materialized. As versatile as Facegen is, the app is extremely old and its core is basically the same as it always has been, even though it has progressed some. So I had great hope that Daz would take their Face Transfer and put a new spin on the technology. I'd love to see an AI component in it. This is a perfect use case for AI, as it could generate the rest of the texture that the photo does not show, and create a better morph. I would also be willing to pay more for Face Transfer if it really did work well. I mean, people are paying $100+ for Facegen. It may be kind of a niche market, but the people in this market are often willing to pay up for it. If it worked really well, I am sure it would sell like hot cakes.
At any rate, Facegen is not dead, as some have noted, it is just not available from the Daz store anymore. You can still buy Facegen directly from its site. As far as I can tell, the app is still getting updates. It is up to 4.5 now, and since this thread got me curious, I tested it out and it is improving. The changelog posts:
4.5
"improve results a bit" is actually true. I just tested a photo I used before, and the results surprised me. It blended the texture color of the forehead better than it already did. The chin could be better, but the forehead and temple blend perfectly into the texture, and the entire body color is in line with the color of the face. No clowns! I tried two different textures and and this got me excited, because somehow Facegen managed to make these very different source textures nearly the same color as the face in the photo. I have no idea how it is doing this. But this is a really amazing power. Just think of what can be done with this is enticing, and I am not talking about just making people's faces. You could get creative here and use Facegen as a way to color correct some textures. The morph may be slightly better, the upper eyelid is not pushed down as much as it was previously.
A bit off topic, I couldn't help but notice that Iray 2023 is on the beta track. I sure hope no canaries die in Daz's cave so this can see the light of day ASAP.
Also, and I could be wrong here, the fact that it is being developed and still got culled seem to be a clear indicator that Daz 3d is planning something in this direction. But I also didn't realize that the Face Transfer video I posted (because it was just being shown to me as adds before videos I was trying to get to) was three years old already.
I will buy Face Transfer if they update it to give much improved results and so that it works with Genesis 9. As it stands it is one of only 4 products I have returned for a refund.
I have yet to buy FG Artist for Genesis 9 but I think following your advice here would be helpful as well as using an image upscale and detail interpolating extrapolating (I guess the details would be actually inferred and extrapolotated from outside data sets) program that takes advantage of nVidia DLSS and current state of the art image processing AI.
Don't forget that Facegen has a free demo. This demo has access to all of its features, so you can play with it and see for yourself if it will work for your purposes. Also, you can save your FG files from the demo and load them in the unlocked version. So anything you make in the demo can be used in the unlocked version with big "FG" removed from the forehead.
Using AI to upscale can help quite a bit, it works far better with a quality picture. Also, the DOF of the picture makes a huge difference, too. FG is not going to work well with every pic, but there are times when FG feels like magic.
Face Transfer 2. That is only available to private build testers, not public beta?
I love Facegen bought each version that was sold here plus it generates matching skin textures for the rest of the body I've made so many of my own pretty happy with, has a lot of editing options too which I haven't really still explored yet
That would be correct, yes.
Now another valid question is this...is this an update for Face Transfer, or is it a whole new product? With a "2" in the name, that kind of sounds like a new product to me, but I don't know. And of course Daz is always super secretive about everything. More over, the original FT only works on 8 and 8.1, which raises yet another question...is FT2 going to only work with G9? I would say that is very much likely, which would greatly limit the product's value.
According to the store page it only contains the trial version. Presumably that is a mistake? Also the "Link to Blog" doesn't lead to the intended destination - not that I could see a relevant article on the blog anyway.
Confirmation of its compatibility with G8/G8.1 would also be appreciated.
It is explained also on that page:
Purchasing Face Transfer 2 in pre-release means you will get access to the unlimited version in the beta (Public Build) versions,
as well as the General Release version which will be launching in the coming weeks.
The whats included says its the trial version thats included - so you might only get that even in beta. Seems a lot to pay for a trial version, trial versions are usually free. And - 'in coming weeks' - is this a Daz soon type of thing?
I bought Facegen through the vendors website and still recieve updates and great service. It's great IMHO.
Hi Greybro, could you please post some example render of Facegen generated Genesis 9 character,
if you got this new version of it. Thanks in advance.
It is pretty clear to me that this is exclusive to Genesis 9. Because of course it would be. Daz wants everybody to move to Genesis 9.
More information about Face Transfer 2 is included with YouTube video from Daz 3D