Etiquette for crediting creators in published material
the_deCodedMAN
Posts: 41
Basically what it says on the tin.
I'm working on a fantasy 3D comic e-book using Daz and was contemplating showcasing assets and creators in the back of each issue with a link to the creator's daz store. The comic is aimed at readers 13+ so no graphic content. Is this something that I should ask each individual artist if they're okay with, or am I overthinking it? Would this generally be something that is frowned upon if I'm publishing it through Comixology or Amazon?
Feedback is appreciated, particulary from anyone who might have some knowledge in publishing but particularly from asset creators themselves.
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Comments
I don't see a problem with what you're proposing.
You paid for the license to use the 2D content you produce any way you want. There is no need to credit anyone, it is all up to you.
I paid a license so I don't have to deal with all that. =-) I've found a lot of places shy away from citing too much material in their artwork and I don't enjoy doing it.
I don't think they are discussing the legal obligation but the ethical thing to do. If you want to reach a base that isn't doing this type of stuff, offering the credit does do a lot. It creates new customers, who can create what they picture with some practice and feel a sense of accomplishment at what they created. It will also keep Daz and PA's in business which is becoming harder and harder for PA's to do for various reasons. In the end, it is completely up to you if you include it or not and what the intention is.
I think right now, you feel assets are leading the way in your book- like "The assets are the star of your e-book". And so, you want to give credit where it's due. Lots of early creators feel deep appreciation, gratitude and even privilege for being able to use such stellar items to bring your vision to life.
I mean, you just want to THANK THE VENDORS!!!!
Eventually though, that wears off as YOU put the creative effort in- and make the assets come to life in the context of YOUR story. What you did was more important than what assets you used.
Sure the [insert vendor] made an awesome looking character, but it’s your story that breathes life into the character and gives them personality. When the amount of work you put into your story outshines the Daz props, you’ll probably feel less of a need to thank the vendors or Daz.
Usually, it goes the other way around. The Vendor should be saying “As seen in…” or Daz should be bragging about what company or project uses Daz Assets.
Also, if your book is for READERS, they should not care what you used to make the book. They either like it or they don’t. OTHER CREATORS might be interested – because they want to do (or use similar stuffs) to create a similar thing.
On a final note, I think crediting TOOLS diminishes the link between the Creator and the End Work. Lots of people can buy those same assets, but only you can author in that e-book that put them to such fine use.
I agree. I paid a 3D artist to make a 3D character from my 2D product. I feel no obligaton to credit that person. Nor should you credit stock photos or other art you buy a license for.As a professional writer, you should credit the people who actually visited your project and offered their hand in making the final product available to the public. The people you should identify are co-authors and illustrators who designed your character from scratch. If you did not hire such you should not credit such. If you hired a book designer to design your book layout, credit that peron. If you use a licensed software or software product . . . refrain.
I think it would be a nice and respectful thing to do.
I'm not doing it,
I have mentioned using DAZ studio to create my comic on several instances but I'm not referencing single vendors for two reasons. One is that I usually adapt and change so much of a character or opject that it's hardly recognizable anyway. Second, I have over 100 pages of story, each page with about 20 panels, each panel with a variety of items used: characters, morphs, often alternative skins, hair clothing, props, architecture, vehicles, environment, light setting HDRIs, the list would never end so where to start and where to stop? Do I include some vendors and others not?
if you draw you comic by hand, you don't mention the company making the pencils and the paper either, you bought the material and now you work with it
Excellent, that is the best comment so far.
Do it if you want to, don't if you don't.
Comparing pre-made 3D assets to pencils is a false equivocation. If you accept that PAs and other vendors are artists, then their work, the assets you're using, are already works of art. By all indications, the assets are made as art. The fact that we can modify them only makes the art more collaborative. A pencil, on the other hand, is a tool. It was made as a tool. You can use it to draw or for other purposes. As 3D assets are stock, in the sense of stock art made to facilitate creation of derivative works, you have your license rules for use. The licenses here don't require you to credit the vendor who made the asset. If you want to do that, you're allowed to do that. If I wanted to give a vendor a plug, a little promotion, I might! That's different from having to list every asset used in a scene and who made it. That would be a burden, and I probably wouldn't buy anything under those license terms. YMMV.
Thank you.
It seems the conversation has drifted a bit from the OP's first post. The OP wants to give free advertising to specific assets and vendors. That's pretty generous, actually. I've not seen that done in that way. I've seen ads in comics before, mostly for little sets of military toys, x-ray goggles, sea monkeys. I doubt the OP would get thown out of the club for doing that, but it might not be the best use of space in the actual product. Some comics include character plates and development notes with more information about the production. Is that something customers want to pay see in an unknown production? Might be better as content in promotion pages on web sites or social media - One can talk about it, but not make it part of the product.
Comparing pre-made 3D assets to pencils is a false equivocation.
I've seen this thought before. It depends on how you use the assets/tools. Naming a brand of Vendor "I use Stonemason Sets!!!!" Is extremely close to saying "I use Prisma Colored Pencils!!"
If you accept that PAs and other vendors are artists, then their work, the assets you're using, are already works of art.
But I don't.
I buy Zip Files with ASSETS in them from the Daz Store. And I then I do the artist part and turn those assets into art (hopefully).
P.A. stands for Published Artists. They were artists first and then published some of their asset-products in the Daz Store.
Not to be too, too technhical, but you kinda already got to be an artist to get past the Daz submission requirements. (insert sad face emoji)
And on a last note, the PAs themselves do not list the raw assets or software(s) they used to make their products.
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As for the OP, there is no established etiquette.
If you want general guides, I can give you some:
1) Do not credit/involve/cite any PA (or Daz Store) that appears to be an official endorsement of your work. (You may actually hurt their brand if your work proves to be controversial)
2) Avoid mentions that may appear as a sponsorship- as if they are actually involved in the creation of your work.
If you want better ideas to "give back".
In interviews explain that you use the Daz Store/Software heavily in your work.
Share your finished work in the Daz Gallery or participate and/or create threads behind the products/vendors you favor. (Peer reviews do a lot for sales)
Build a list of vendors that you buy every release from- when it arrives - whether it's in your super MUST USE TODAY list or not.
Support the vendors you respect by not waiting till their products are $1.99 before you buy them.(lol)
You also don't have to wait until you've finished your e-Book to tell people about Daz Studio and the amazing products on offer.
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I think you should finish the e-book and then revisit this idea again and see how you feel.
I have mentioned using DAZ studio to create my comic on several instances but I'm not referencing single vendors for two reasons. One....
Oh my goodness, now you MUST mention Daz in every breath or else it's assumed that everything is AI.
Torquinox,
No doubt, as frank0314 mentioned above, the shout out to PAs would be a big boon. I'm all for supporting the PAs, so for this reason alone I think the OP's idea is a good one.
You mention: "Is that something customers want to pay see in an unknown production?" I think back-of-the-book production notes is a tried and true way to generate buzz. Along with excerpts of script drafts, or early sketches, fans would see that portfolio as an indication of the depth in the comic production, something they'd appreciate.
Now it goes without saying that the jury is still out with regards to 3D art style. Seeing that the OP didn't provide any sample art involving a 3D workflow, we can't weigh in on whether the Daz-association would hurt or not. But as it's been discussed before in other threads on the Daz Forum, there's a growing acceptance of 3D in comics. At the very least we can assume that anyone who pays for the OP's work isn't so prejudiced against a 3D art style. They are self-selected patrons, so to speak.
Bottom line: there's little to lose and there's more to gain.
Cheers!
@csaa Thanks for your reply. Your position is sensible. I don't have the answers, and I don't want to dissuade anyone from doing what they want to do. I think the way I wrote my post could have been better, especially at the end. So, it's good you posted, too.
I will simply say, some artists do, indeed mention their tools. Some even discuss them at length. Whether you do or not is up to you. And I expect, in large measure, we shall agree to disagree.
Feedback is appreciated, particulary from anyone who might have some knowledge in publishing but particularly from asset creators themselves.
Well, switching hats for a second, I am basically BOTH - I've done publishing (comics and magazines in print) AND I'ver created assets for many industries (music and art).
For ComiXology (and probably Amazon) they deleted/subtracted ANY pages that are not directly related to the comic. So I've had "ad pages" stripped from my comics in the past.
So anything that points to a vendor for sale is most likely going to be considered an advert. Also, they don't have live links, so no one is going to write in the URLs to find a vendor from the end of the work.
It's also a little weird to have URL links in a print(ed) publication.
I'd talk to Amazon and ComiXology and get their official policy.
What might work best is a paragraph of dedication to anything and everything that helped make your book the rousing success it will be.
And maybe in the dedication section you can name the assets/vendors that really contributed to your vision.
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As a person who made stuff for other artists to use, I don't expect anyone to list me as a source of anything.
If they choose to- awesome sauce.
As an artist who has done numerous interviews and features (both for art and music) I find that people only care about the process when they care about the work you've finished.
No one (really) reads the liner notes for an album they didn't like that much.
Thank you all for your thoughts. It has been illuminating.
These exchanges in particular cut to the core of my reason for asking this question:
Anyone who chooses to read the comic may be interested in how it is produced. That is one reason i was thinking about including a single page showcasing a particular product.
This was reason #2: If the assets were instrumental in helping me bring my vision to life then there's a part of me that wants to repay that by showcasing the asset and the venfor.
However:
There's always the concern that there might be a negative reaction to being associated with a published work if the vendor feels that it's not a good representation of the their product. Hence my reluctance to do so without seeing what others, particularly vendors, might think on the matter. So a sample of the work involved is available, from the first issue:
And the second:
I think that should i decide to go that route there is nothing wrong with just asking various creators if they want me to profile their assets and just go from there. It can't hurt can it?
so true on that part, I'm crying
If i ever would publish a comic, i really would like to add like a logo: "This comic was created with DAZ Studio". About special assets I would talk in social media with #myfutureawesomecomicbooktitle, lol.
May I suggest a personal website or 'DA page', facebook page, or some other social media site, where you let readers know there is additional information you would like to share and offer an interaction with your fans? Discussing your use of the products by the PAs at DAZ is a great way of highlighting specific works and inspiring new people to get into 3D art.
An author I follow has email, facebook, and YouTube videos she does with background details on her book series that have allowed me to appreciate her historical novels set in Medieval Wales primarily late 13th C. Not something I had much education in before. I am more invested in her novels than I was in others that I enjoyed before by better known authors.
Other authors I have listened to at Comic Con seminars recommend this as a way to expand your audience as well.
It's pretty clear that you don't need to credit PAs like this, but of course you're free to do so if you choose.
There was an old webcomic called Liberty Lass that used to do this on the inside-back-page of each issue, for example: https://libertylass.thecomicseries.com/comics/26/
Not required, expected, or commonly done, but it is a nice thing when it happens. I have seen a couple of visual novels that credit the Daz assets used. And I've been credited directly in a couple others. While I can't speak for other PA's, I think I can say that I get a kick out of seeing my assets in use, and I expect many of them feel the same way. Being credited at the end is purely a bonus for me.There are often questions about which character models and hair assets are used in comics and visual novels. Providing credits might be a useful resource for your readers who are curious in the same way that listing assets used in our store promos can sometimes be helpful to our customers. But it is entirely up to you.
Thanks for the link!