Filament work done with DAZ beta builds (hopefully path forward to opacity fixes)

cain-x

I am seeing more Filament work done in the changelogs http://docs.daz3d.com/doku.php/public/software/dazstudio/4/change_log and from the post https://www.daz3d.com/forums/discussion/comment/8620281/#Comment_8620281

Looks like the Shader Mixer has got some new FIlament specific brick (nodes) for future use. Does it mean that it will fix all of those opacity issues (especially with hair and light)? I am a big fan of Filament as it would give animators a much quicker renderer in their toolbox.

Also hoping these are on the roadmap for Filament:
- Add motion blur
- Allow softer shadows from lights - support more light types and emissives
- Fix the Environment Map not updating if using a non HDR image

That would make Filament good enough to be used in actual work. Photorealism is not always needed. I'd happily pay for such functionality.

WendyLuvsCatz

emission would be nice or at least an ambient or glow  shader to use with a light

cain-x

Wish I had more time to experiement. Just getting the transparency/opacity issues fixed would go a long way. Lights cannot pass through any mesh, even ones with opacity set, like glass. In my work, I deal with vehicles and glasswork... so filament is a showstopper for that kind of rendering. Iray is good at what it does but even at the lowest max sample setting and denoiser turned on, it is still too slow for the turn around I need.

Peter Wade

The thing I find most annoying with filament is that hair sometimes dissappears, is that part of the tranparency/opacity issues you mentioned? I can usually fix this in stil images by adjusting the camera angle, it snaps back into visibility at certain angles. I don't do animations, I expect it must be worse making sure that the hair stays visible through all of the movement.

Emissive surfaces would be useful since a lot of the sets sold at Daz use emmisive surfaces for their lighing. But I don't want to see too much of filament's rendering speed sacrifced for more features.

cain-x

Peter Wade said:

The thing I find most annoying with filament is that hair sometimes dissappears, is that part of the tranparency/opacity issues you mentioned? I can usually fix this in stil images by adjusting the camera angle, it snaps back into visibility at certain angles. I don't do animations, I expect it must be worse making sure that the hair stays visible through all of the movement.

Emissive surfaces would be useful since a lot of the sets sold at Daz use emmisive surfaces for their lighing. But I don't want to see too much of filament's rendering speed sacrifced for more features.

Also turning the surfaces on the hair Top Coat Weight in the surface/mat setting also improve this.

On side note, look like there has been more work done on Filament - they've added some new stuff like emissives. Quite excited. http://docs.daz3d.com/doku.php/public/software/dazstudio/4/change_log

I only saw one line blurb about Filament opacity:

• Expanded Shader Mixer support for switching between materials according to opacity or boolean result in custom Filament brick networks

I'm not too sure what that means, really - but I hope it is a step in the direction I am praying for. Thank you, devs :) 

WendyLuvsCatz

oooh emissives are good, I wonder if it works with DAZ iray shaders or a new one needs to be built in Shadermixer?

Padone

A possible option is to export to blender with diffeomorphic, then use eevee which is much more capable than filament. Then iray materials are limited under eevee, same as they're limited under filament, but transparency and base material attributes work fine. As for emission and GI it is possible to bake light maps for scenes.

In general, daz studio is good to mix figures and scenes to make the content you need. But then for anything else than "basic pose and rendering" you have to export to another more advanced application as maya or blender. There's no other way.

cain-x

True today, but hoping Filament closes this gap and save us time from doing all of the converting and back and forth (especially for animations). The toon render stuff DAZ devs are working on for Filament also sounds great as I work with custom rigged anime/game characters (non Genesis/DAZ characters). 

WendyLuvsCatz

this

I have Carrara, iClone, Unreal, Twinmotion after all if I wanted to render elsewhere 

but for quick loads, add aniblocks and render Filament fits the bill but the mapped opacity and lighting issues are frustrating 

avoiding the maps certainly works but then you need lots of geometry to draw on with the geometry editor to assign to a new surface to add a transparent shader without cutout opacity (I do this sometimes, on props or use fibermesh  hair on heads)

 

I looked in Shadermixer and found the new Filament bricks but have absolutely no idea how to use them 

cain-x

Same.

Soon someone can explain what they do - but I assume it is a work in progress if I read a little bit inbetween the lines in the changelog. It'll be a complex web of magic like the Iray Shader - it is probably someone on the DAZ dev team that will build out a proper Filament shader.

Next, the timeline will actually pause when the spacebar is pressed...

Speaking of the timeline, the only way I get the spacebar to work properly is if you do play/pause via spacebar on a pane that is undocked. So what I have done is undock the Viewport and the timeline so I can do this - its a funky workaround but it works in a pinch.

Richard Haseltine

cain-x said:

Same.

Soon someone can explain what they do - but I assume it is a work in progress if I read a little bit inbetween the lines in the changelog. It'll be a complex web of magic like the Iray Shader - it is probably someone on the DAZ dev team that will build out a proper Filament shader.

Next, the timeline will actually pause when the spacebar is pressed...

Speaking of the timeline, the only way I get the spacebar to work properly is if you do play/pause via spacebar on a pane that is undocked. So what I have done is undock the Viewport and the timeline so I can do this - its a funky workaround but it works in a pinch.

The spacebar is taken by the Universal Tool and derivatives for pinning nodes, and that can't be remapped. (Pity as I would, when we perhaps get the ability to use alphanumeric keys as modifiers with the updated Qt, to have used space for Viewport pan (LMB) and dolly (RMB)).

WendyLuvsCatz

Richard Haseltine said:

cain-x said:

Same.

Soon someone can explain what they do - but I assume it is a work in progress if I read a little bit inbetween the lines in the changelog. It'll be a complex web of magic like the Iray Shader - it is probably someone on the DAZ dev team that will build out a proper Filament shader.

Next, the timeline will actually pause when the spacebar is pressed...

Speaking of the timeline, the only way I get the spacebar to work properly is if you do play/pause via spacebar on a pane that is undocked. So what I have done is undock the Viewport and the timeline so I can do this - its a funky workaround but it works in a pinch.

The spacebar is taken by the Universal Tool and derivatives for pinning nodes, and that can't be remapped. (Pity as I would, when we perhaps get the ability to use alphanumeric keys as modifiers with the updated Qt, to have used space for Viewport pan (LMB) and dolly (RMB)).

off thread topic but on this topic 

is there any way to replace scroll button camera zooming with camera z translation?

if I could, I could use the mouse and cube controller to animate camera movements

one cannot because zooming changes all parameters especially rotations so the camera will gimbal flip

cain-x

Richard Haseltine said:

cain-x said:

Same.

Soon someone can explain what they do - but I assume it is a work in progress if I read a little bit inbetween the lines in the changelog. It'll be a complex web of magic like the Iray Shader - it is probably someone on the DAZ dev team that will build out a proper Filament shader.

Next, the timeline will actually pause when the spacebar is pressed...

Speaking of the timeline, the only way I get the spacebar to work properly is if you do play/pause via spacebar on a pane that is undocked. So what I have done is undock the Viewport and the timeline so I can do this - its a funky workaround but it works in a pinch.

The spacebar is taken by the Universal Tool and derivatives for pinning nodes, and that can't be remapped. (Pity as I would, when we perhaps get the ability to use alphanumeric keys as modifiers with the updated Qt, to have used space for Viewport pan (LMB) and dolly (RMB)).

Never knew that - I just know that the behavior changed after 4.12 and it has been very frustrating to use the timeline without the workaround. Thanks for the info, Rich.

On top of Filament enhancements, I am very much looking forward to the next gen DAZ. 

Silver Dolphin

Padone said:

A possible option is to export to blender with diffeomorphic, then use eevee which is much more capable than filament. Then iray materials are limited under eevee, same as they're limited under filament, but transparency and base material attributes work fine. As for emission and GI it is possible to bake light maps for scenes.

In general, daz studio is good to mix figures and scenes to make the content you need. But then for anything else than "basic pose and rendering" you have to export to another more advanced application as maya or blender. There's no other way.

I agree with Padone, I have not rendered in Daz Studio in a couple of years because the lag. I use the bridge to Blender as well. I buy stuff at store to support the artists but spend my time mostly in Blender.

cain-x

To Padone's and Silver Dolphin's point - it depends on the situation with regards to pushing the envelope. DAZ Studio actually makes prototyping animations surprisingly easy with a combination of Universal & ActivePose, Animate+, Timeline, Puppeteer, Powerpose, Pose Presets, and Puppeteer. The Auto IK implementation in DAZ is not seen in any other platform which requires rigging work. Yes there are trade offs but I can say that DAZ is an untapped tool with a high celing, even with its limitations. 

Do I love traditional IK rigs, mixamo retargeting, addons and the flexibility of Blender? Oh hell yeah, and they are perfect for that kind of work - but DAZ can surprise if you explore it a bit more. It is just another tool to get the result you want.