WHAT AM I DOING WRONG ? ( OR NOT DOING ! )

Cyklone

Hi everybody,

I'd like to open a discussion to receive your comments and advises about a problem that I have ( I'm certainly not the only one ) :
OK....If I get things right, the purpose of daz studio is to create characters the way you want them to be (am I right ?), eg. a women with big hips / thighs small short chest,etc...
But why is it that each time I try to apply a certain pose to the character I just created, nothing seems to be right ?
I get strange deformations here and there ( thighs, waist, glute, you name it ) despite whatever I've tried ( Ultra natural bend morphs for exemple )...nothing looks natural (see attached photo for a sample)
What am I doing wrong ?
I would be very happy to have your opinions and expertises on this question...

In advance, thank you !
Cheers !
 

PerttiA

Try;

Edit->Figure->Rigging->Adjust Rigging to Shape

Cyklone

Thank you for you answer....Unfortunatly it doesn't work.
As soon as I try to bend legs or arms or try to put something in a "bending" position, I get very strange results ( see attached photo again : the shape of the thigh is far from correct / natural even after using the method mentionned above )
It's almost as if something was locked at the thigh / hip joint and not moving properly : the more I bend up the thigh the more I get that kind of distortion "void" between the hip and thigh where normaly they should simply stick together with a simple fold between them as on the second attached photo ( if what I'm saying is clear ? )

Any idea ?

PerttiA

Then it may be a JCM made for a specific character that's being applied even when the character is not dialed in.

With the leg bent, unhide hidden parameters and check "Currently used", one of the hidden morphs on the list may be the culprit.

paulawp (marahzen)

It's worth mentioning that some poses will do weird things to a figure that are left behind even after you zero the pose/move on to some other pose. Were you having this problem at the outset, when you first loaded the figure?

Richard Haseltine

Which figure? With Genesis 9 there is a visible controller for the CBS morphs - the ones that adjust the shape in response to posing - and if that is zeroed you will get the bare bends without any adjustments. Also, if you mix morphs the cumulative effect of all the ajdustment morphs masy not be felicitous, and while Daz store morphs should have JCMs/MCMs/CBSs, products from other stores or, especially, freebies may not.

Cyklone

This is exactly the purpose of this thread : Most of the time, I'm not using models "straight from the shop", I use them as a base but I'm remodelling them the way I want them to be.
I generally don't use G9, I'm still not convinced : everything with the body seems to be limp and shapeless ( just my opinion though)
The question is : is there a "general method" or tool to prevent and/or correct this kind of deformations / distortions despite the modifications that where made on de character itself ? ( in some case, depending on the pose, it's almost the whole body that is affected by the ugly deformations )
...Or are there some pose that can just not be used or corrected ?

columbine

Check the [expletive deleted] Flex Quad Right and Flex Quad Left sliders. They still go haywire even with G9.

Oso3D

If this is somewhat your own figure or sculpt, then, well, welcome to figure creation.

Joint rotations are a bit ... hit and miss, so figures require a bunch of corrective morphs to fix stuff that doesn't look right. The default figures have a raft of corrective morphs to make them bend smoothly.
However, if you alter those shapes... well, things are going to go off, the more the figure deviates from the default.

To fix it, you need to create a series of corrective morphs for each joint bend so it looks the way you want, save them in your own content folder. 

Annoying and a lot of work? You bet! That's what a PA job entails. heh.

The alternative is to stick to combinations of existing characters that have correctives and hope the combination plays nicely.

 

Cyklone

Here's one of the models I have created with very specific shapes, and the same model with a simple pose....not good !
The area where the hip should be in contact with the thigh "sinks" in as if it was squished too much.
In fact it's not the thigh itself that is causing a problem but the junction area between thigh and hip.

Cyklone

@Oso3D : totally agree with you....I guess my only solution will be to stick with simple pose...or go throught Zbrush or something like that...
...But that's something that Daz should seriously think about cause I'm certainly not the only one being "a bit" annoyed with that kind of problems...

Anyway, thanks everybody for you feedbacks and ideas !

cheers !

 

Oso3D

There is literally nothing Daz could do, barring some incredibly involved muscle and skin sim nobody here could use.

Cyklone

I'm not talking about my personnal case, I know that my characters are or can be a bit extreme shapewise ( but again, I'm really not the only one ! ).
There should be something to correct that ( I'm almost sur that it would be the same if I simply use the same pose with a basic g8F )

Matt_Castle

Cyklone said:

...But that's something that Daz should seriously think about cause I'm certainly not the only one being "a bit" annoyed with that kind of problems...

Daz have thought about this, and this is why they've created an entire system for controlling and driving corrective shapes.

There is currently no workaround for not needing corrective shapes on a morphable figure, because once you change a person's shape, they bend differently.

Hell, there's really no workaround for not needing them on an unmorphed figure other than feigning ignorance (which video games often have to do) - and indeed, this is why even the base morphs of Daz figures come with automatic pose correctives. Skinned rigging is something we have to use as a technology because it's the only efficient approximation of the very complicated physics of how people bend - actually calculating how muscle layers slide over bones and each other, how the fat sits on top, how the skin stretches over that... this would be extremely time consuming to calculate on even the most powerful computers

Being blunt, a lot of the features people say are missing from Daz Studio boil down to "Daz should do the nigh-impossible to save me a little bit of work".

Cyklone

Yep : same with a basic g8f figure...a bit less but still...see attached (before and after with a little correction on photoshop )

Matt_Castle

Cyklone said:

Yep : same with a basic g8f figure...a bit less but still...see attached

Your G8F is broken, possibly by a bad JCM from another set, because I cannot replicate this with a stock G8F.

(I have saved a standalone copy of G8F that is completely stock apart from the Daz's main head and body morph packs - mostly for the purposes of having a model that loads very quickly for testing, but it also enjoys immunity to any bugs introduced by issues with other addons).

Cyklone

Then I'll do it manually....

Masterstroke

there is just nothing wrong with the basic G8F.
It is a JCM-problem with characters for G8f.
That's what I always say. The G8f default JCMs are only working with the default G8f figure. For every custom character, you will need a custom set of Joint-Control-Morphs.
Your character has wider hips and shorter legs, so these deformations are exactly typical for that.
I've added for my character about 20 extra JCMs, just for the Hip-Thigh joints. Most of them are keyed in a trial and error way of creating them.

I'm saying, for custom characters , you will necessarily custom JCMs but also custom expressions.

Matt_Castle

Cyklone said:

Then I'll do it manually....

Check hidden parameters for any active JCMs that shouldn't be, and then uninstall the characters responsible (or fix the JCM links, if you're up to it), and put in bug tickets with Daz.

Your character is bending wrong, but the problem isn't to do with how G8F is by default.

Richard Haseltine

You haven't told us how you are shaping - if you are using third-party morphs they should have the required JCMs, at least if they come from Daz (and assuming something hasn't broken them). If you are using custom morphs made in a modeller, or using dForms in DS, you need to make your own JCMs. If you are using third-party morphs, exporting the shape as OBJ, and loading as a new morph, you need to stop doing that as you are breaking all sorts of things.