buyimg a new computer
dennisgray41
Posts: 803
[buyimg a new computer]
i9, or i7
rtx 3080 or 4060? how much difference will these make?
Post edited by Richard Haseltine on
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Either for the CPU, between the GPUs I would go with the 16gb 4060
I suppose you're speaking of the 16 GB 4060 Ti.
The RTX 3080 is capable of ~12 iterations per second in the benchmark, making it faster that the RTX 4060 Ti 16 GB (which is capable of doing ~9 iterations per second):
https://www.daz3d.com/forums/discussion/341041/daz-studio-iray-rendering-hardware-benchmarking/p1
Having said that, a 4060 Ti 16 GB does have more VRAM, so will be much faster with any scene requiring more than the VRAM available for the 3080, so, like @savagestug, I would also buy the 4060 Ti 16 GB over an RTX 3080. An added bonus is power draw: the 4060 Ti is using less power, so less heat, less noise and a cheaper power bill, which means more money to buy Daz assets
(or any other expenses coming your way).
The 4060. I got the 4070 (for an old cica 2020 AMD Ryzen 7 Zen 3 computer) and it was such a huge upgrade on the 3060 in render speed and power efficiency. Next year I am going for starting to build new new computer, it will be a third one that is always offline with a AM5 socket Zen 5 Ryzen 9 9000 series 16 core CPU, lastest PCI SSDs, and an nVidia RTX 5090.
The i9 is overkill for Iray renders. My current render monster has an 8 core i7, which is more than enough. Spend your money on the GPU, not the CPU.
Cheers,
Alex.
...CPU choice depends on other things a system is used for. I also still dabble in Carrara and 3DL (as well as use my system for non 3D purposes) and there, core count along with CPU speed (like a 16 core Ryzen 5900X) is extremely important.
Thanks for all the input.
Does look like a good choice?
https://www.amazon.com/gp/product/B0CCK7W5ST/ref=ox_sc_act_title_2?smid=A1YUSV6M5AMPHR&th=1
It's better & cheaper that what I paid out for my "self-cobbled" computer. The 4070TI & DDR5 RAM are both a step up from mine. The 2TB NVME M.2 SSD I'm not sure, mine is the now older & slower PCIe 3x4 spec, you are probably getting the newer PCIe 4 spec though. The ports on the back of your ThermalTake are on par with what I have on the back of mine (an MSI Tomahawk AM4 socket I replaced the Gigabyte AM4 MB as hackers may have tampered with the BIOS) .
...one small red flag, it comes with Win10 home not Win11. WIn10 reaches "end of life" in October 2025 .this means no more security updates or support so you would have to update to Win11 at extra cost.
Also not sure what they mean by 32 GB "flash memory" when the specs above say 32 GB DDR5
I would look atsites like IBuyPower of CyberPowerPC as on those sites you can configure the system more to your needs.
ETA:
Also consider the primary use, like will it be dedicated to working and rendering in Daz?. If it is, I would go more for VRAM than GPU speed and a 4060 Ti 16 GB GPU. I would also consider 64 GB of system memory (or planning to upgrade to that when you have the chance). I would also consider a smaller C: drive say 500 GB - 1 TB for the boot drive and a larger standard HDD (say 4 TB) for your content/library drive.
I've already filled up a 2TB drive that was solely dedicated to my content library.
I haven't used windows 11 yet. Can I go back to windows 95?
Looks like that is the way that prime knows how to call it memory. Still just a warehouse.
I plan to render in daz, including animations and also use blender to try content creation.
Speaking of upgrading. It's been a few years since I built anything (Ok, mabey not this millennium) Are there any problems and what does it do to warrantee and service contracts?
I can't even find that as an option unless I add an external.
\\
Thanks for your input.
If someone wants to upgrade from Windows 10 Home to Windows 11 Pro, they'll have to pay, but otherwise, upgrading from Windows 10 Home to Windows 11 Home is free (or Pro to Pro, etc).
I don't know if it's still in place, but they was still a way to upgrade to Windows 10 for free even after the free upgrade offer ended.
There is a lot of conjecture on that in regards to Windows 10 EOL. Seems that Microsoft are adding another feature update for Windows 10, which seems a bit silly since Windows 10 is supposed to go EOL next year. And as such the rumors are rolling as to why Microsoft would do this now.
On computers, for myself the computer system in my signature is what I recently upgraded to, going with a AMD for the CPU and a RTX 4070Ti Super for the GPU. And can say that it is one beefy computer system.
...thanks, I wasn't sure that offer still stood.
...not really 95 hgit end of life 290 years ago, you won't be able to run the current version of Daz with it. As corrected above there is a free upgrade from Win 10 home to Win 11 hpme. available ALso most custom houses like the ones I mentioned already bundle Win11 Home edition with their systems
it sitll is cionfusing that they use that term.as flash memory different from system memory. There was an Intel device for memory acelleration a few years ago that used flash memory.
I would definitely consider 64 GB of system memory if you can afford it If not make sure that the 32 GB is in 2 X 16 GB sticks and that will leave you two slots for upgrading in the future. Just make sure to use the same brand and speed of memory when upgrading One way to cut costs a bit is to step back to DDR4 which is still very viable just make sure the Motherboard supports it.. The issue with memory is the entire scene needs to be held in system memory (which is also used by system processes running in background along with the Operating System) while rendering and if the full load exceeds what you have on the board the process either drops into what is called "Virtual Memory" on the drive (which is slower) or crashes altogether.
I would also definitly consider a build with the 4060 Ti 16 GB GPU as it will give you just that much more "overhead" for rendering. My axiom for a rendering system is more VRAM is better than higher clock speed (the letter important for games) .as if a frame or scene exceeds the GpU's memorY the process frops down to almost "glacial" CPU rendering.. A 4060 Ti 16 GB also costs about 250 USD less than the 4070 Ti. Less cores but more VRAM at a savings.
I've been running with a Maxwell generation Titan-X 12 GB with "only" 3072 cores and it's been rendering pretty quickly on a fairly old system (6 core Xeon 5660, with 24 GB DDR2 memory) for most scenes. The Titan-X is 5 generations behind the 4060 Ti.
It shouldn't, well designed PCs can be and are often upgraded. As to the primary drive, yeah it is difficult to find smaller ones unless you home build (like I do). I would not go for more a 1 TB for the boot drive if nothing smaller is offered. Using a standard mechanical HDD for your content library costs less than a comparable SSD. Again, I would not go below 4 GB as that will leave you years of room for expanding tou content library and storing rendered scenes .
But everything after XP, my dos games don't work.
Thats how I knew what they meant. I was around when they invented flash.
More good advice. and I amhaving trouble deciding if I want to be frugal or greedy. I suspect that I could easily get by with a $1000 system and never know the difference, but If I buy it and don't like it then I am stuck. On the other hand I could go crazy and get as much as a 4080 super and not break the bank. Plus I can't buy till next week when I get my cash. so I am spending all my time now window shopping and drooling.
On the other hand, for the last 3 years I have been using a dell insperion 15000 that was not what the guy that sold it to me claimed it was and I can only do about 1 render per day and it has just about killed a second battery from the heat.
...just to note to upgrade my "ancient" system to work with Win11 will cost me about 850 USD and that's just for the followomg
AMD Ryzen 3.7 GHz 5900X 12 core.24 thread CPU
Asus ProArt B550-CREATOR ATX AM4 Motherboard
Corsair Vengeance LPX 64 GB (2 x 32 GB) DDR4-3200 CL16
MemorySamsung 970 Evo Plus 500 GB M.2-2280 PCIe 3.0 X4 NVME Solid State Drive
ARCTIC Freezer 34 eSports DUO CPU Cooler
Microsoft Windows 11 Pro OEM - DVD 64-bit (there is a reason for this as it gives the user a few more permissions to get rid of unwanted "fluff" which includes the new AI digital assistant.).
I will be using hte same drives PSU, and an RTX 3060 12 GB GPU which my pld MB BIOS will not recognise.
Thyen again, I am a "homebuilder" so it's a bit easier to save on compontents and select the ones I need.
Having 64GB of RAM is great. That was something that I upgraded from 32 to 64 a few years ago.
With regards to the graphics cards - the 4x series is still a lot. I know I'll be checking the prices before I get a new GPU for a future computer that I am thinking about. Probably will stick with my RTX 3060 before the upgrade.
What would it take to add a 4Tb HDD?
...depends on where you get it according IBuyPower a 4TB (WD Blue) is around 98$ The one caveat with many build houses as they can have limited selections For example IBuyPower offers the Western Digital Blue as their only 4 TB HDD, I would prefer a WD Black or Seagate Barracuda [the latter I have which has been reliable for years]).
Below ie what I cobbled together at AVA Direct. The price is a litttle higher than the one at Amazon, however, it includes the RTX 4060 16 GB and 64 GB of DDR5 5200 memory. The two changes to keep it below 2,000$ are this system is built on the I7 13700KF (a step down form the i7 14700KF) and it has active air cooling for the CPU rather than a liquid cooling system (however it is more than capable to handle that CPU).
This is just to give an idea of what can be done under the 2000$ budget limit Of all the build houses I surveyed, AVA appears to offer the widest selection of components.
It is sad that EVGA stopped producing GPUs after the 3xxx series as I would definitely have gone with them for the 4060.
ETA:
Ugh, seems the old "Attach a file" bug is back as it just sits there sayiing "Uploding" without attaching the file selected.
As the original is a web page and not an image I cannot import it through the froum Image function so had to jump through some hoops to send it to one of my gallery sites to be able to import it as a "url" image through the Image funciton above..
ETA2
A pox on the forum software, spent more time than I should have taken, first gettting it into a folder on the gallery site that wouldn't post it on my main gallery and then being unable get the image to post without it gong over Daz the forum page size so I had to go back edit it down to get it to fit and resubmit to teh gllery gallery site befoire importing it in here.. If I could have simply attached it you could click on the image to expand it to full size so it would be eaier to read.. It probably would have taken less time to manually type everything in from the on screen summary.
...pardon my ire but not very pleased with all the time this took out of my afternoon for something that should have been so simple.
:
I just print screen and upload that image.
And it uploaded for me :)
....At the time I created that post yesterday afternoon, the Attach a File function had broken. I could not simply upload the screenshot I made of the specifications.
Several others had run into the same issue I did yesterday and Richard informed development of the matter. (there are two threads about it in the Commons)
.Apparently the situation was finally fixed later yesterday evening.
Even thoiugh I was finally able to embed the image in my post above, I went ahead and added the specs as attachment to this response (as it is finally working again) which is a bit easier to read.
How does this look?
..it's late where I am so let me sleep on it and I'll review the components tomorrow after getting enough caffiene in my system.
Apologies for the late response, busy day here with other "RL" matters and finally a free evening to do a little research along with poking around on the Net.
Overall it's a good system but there are a few points, including the price, that arise.
First off, based on the cost of the system from Amazon in the OP, I took it you were looking to keep this system under a 2,000 USD budget so that was my guide. Also, this is coming from someone who is on a fairly tight budget.
Speaking of the case in the Cyberpower build, it appears to have an odd placement for the intake main fans being they are on the side rather than front This to me is a concern as it doesn't promote direct font to back airflow through the case particularly since the three vents in the top of the case will be taken up by the CPU cooler radiator. That means there is only one single exhaust fan for the rest of the case (see attachment below as from, what I could find about this system. that is the case it comes with).
My main system is housed in an Antic P-193 large mid tower (no longer available which is a pity because it is well insulated for sound and dust mitigation) which has provisions for a total of 7 fans and includes a large 240mm filtered intake on the left panel right next to the GPU (this was before tempered glass windows became popular). It has served well for a over a dozen years and can accommodate fairly large GPUs as well as large active CPU air coolers. For my planned upgrade I'm, looking at a 12 core/24 thread Ryzen 5900X and a Arctic Freezer 34 eSports DUO CPU cooler which has both an intake and exhaust fan on a massive heat sink with heat pipes. I thought about water cooling but opted for the heat sink instead (see a bit below on this).
Regarding the CPU, that is pretty much a personal choice but can also be limited by budget. Intel no longer makes fully hyperthreaded CPUs (meaning all cores are dual threaded) for their new i7 and i9 processors They have gone to a "split core architecture of faster hyperthreaded "Power" and slower single thread "Efficiency" cores. I fail to see what the is advantage this has for a desktop PC plugged into a surge protector or UPS. For notebooks and portable devices it makes more sense to extend battery charge and life.
Personally I've had reservations about closed loop liquid cooling compared to a full custom integrated cooling system (which unfortunately costs more but is also more reliable and trouble free). Yes liquid cooling will keep CPU temps lower than active air cooling but at a slightly higher cost and loss of case vent fans for the radiator. Of course again this is a personal choice.
As to the memory, again Cyber power seems rather limited in options compared to other build houses. The memory used in this system is OK, but there is better and it doesn't have to cost more. I am partial to GSkill and Corsair (I've used both).
One of the things that stood out to me was the following:
I tend to cringe a bit when I see statements like that.
The memory used in this system is Team Group T-Force Delta Alpha, which when compared to one of the more well known brands like G.Skill's Ripjaws S5 is a bit of an under performer compared to the latter (both memory sets are 5600MHz) . The difference in cost a mere additional 5$ more (retail) for the GSkill memory which offers better performance and is a "tried and true" brand..
As to the NVME drive (boot drive) Western Digital "Blue is a "lower rung" grade than their other offerings.. Granted the 1 TB model in this build is priced pretty reasonably (64$ at PCPartPicker) but pales in performance to the Samsung 980 Pro 1TB which is 40 USD more.
Now the Iron Wolf Pro at first seems a bit extreme as it is an NAS drive which means it is designed for systems that operate 24/7 and are shared by different users (eg. servers). Now there is nothing wrong with using an NAS drive on a standard desktop or workstation, and the major advantages are speed and reliability. However that comes at a price (at PCPartPicker the the 4 TB version lists for 155 USD Though Newegg has the same drive on sale for `109 USD) .
Again as I mentioned, component brand availability varies among different build houses. I find AVA Direct to offer a wide most options and they are given an A+ rating by the BBB.. Being a home builder it does give me more flexibility however to get to where I am took nearly 2 years (while working another job) of researching and learning about PC design and building before i even ordered the components. PCPartPicker, which I have mentioned, is more for those like myself but is still a good resource as to costs of and compatibility of components. I also do comparative shopping at other sources as well to find the best price
For those without the time or desire to build from scratch, going with a custom hose is definitely the best route. and much more preferable to an "off the shelf" prebuild or a system on eBay (YMMV there as most items are "pre owned")
Apologies for the long windedness but if saving a few USD one of the goals, I would still do a bit of research and shopping around.
Hope this helps
I'm back. I tried to set this up at ava direct.
I am lost on the differences between items but I think this looks good.
...it looks pretty good though about 300 USD more than the configuration I posted earlier. Granted the one I configured was something of a "budget" system
After reviewing this build I still have a few ideas to consider:
First, the case. The Fractal Pop Airls advantage are the large 140,mm intakefans, the downside there is no filtering on the front panel which means higher chance of internal dust contamination. . My suggestion would be the Antec P20C which has a full front washable dust filter. and provisions for 6 fans: 3 in front, 2 on top, and 1 in back all 120mm.This case also has provision for Vertical GPU mounting which takes stress off the card's slot interface. The case also has a steel frame and panels so it is more durable and quieter. The PSYU is also isolated from the rest of the system, I would consider swapping out the three 120mm fans in the front for three 140mm ones to get a little more airflow.(my old Antec P-193 has been serving me well for the last 12 years and will continue to do so evne with the plann ed upgrade I have in mind). This case also has provision for vertical mounting of the GPU which lessens stress on the cards iinterface and slot.
Here is a link to the the P20C for more details.
https://www.antec.com/product/case/p20c
If you are set on the 14700KF that is fine again a personal choice. However the one advantage with AMD Ryzen is they consistently operate at the same TDP even when in turbo mode whereas the wattage increases for the new Intel CPUs when in turbo mode
Since the 4060 Ti 16 tops out at about half the power of the 4070 Ti Super, the loss of the upper case fans for the CPU radiator isn't as much of an issue as would be with the 4070 Super Ti. For that cooler, I would go with an Arctic Freezer III dual with 140 MM radiator fans for slightly better heat dissipation (only 11 USD more than the CoolerMaster one (CoolerMaster also only uses 120 mm fans)
Again, I understand from previous posts, this is going to primarily be a system for working in Daz. so basically the Strix B750-F is more motherboard than you likely will need unless you are a hardcore gamer. The RTX 4000 series cards are optimised for PCIe 4.0 so 5.0 grants little if any advantage for rendering. .This system would do very well with the ASUS PRIME B760-PLUS which is well rated and would save you 138 USD.
Good that you chose the PNY RTX 4060. They along with computer m,akers Lenovo and Dell PNY is the only other company (outside Nvidia) that is licensed to make the professional "Quadro" FPU line.
For the Boot Drive I'd go with a 500GB Samsung 750 Evo M2 which has far better performance specs than the Kingston in all respects.
Unfortunately AVA direct does not handle the Seagate Iron Wolf (at least not in this particular category of systems) which I felt was a better choice. However the WD Black is a very good dependable drive.
Attached below is the summary sheet for a build based on what I mention here. It saves about 115 USD and I feel has several improvements. The price also includes the full Windows11 Home Edition. not the default "trial" version
...oh, and that P-193 case I have, see attached an image below.
Just know that there was potential stability issues among other things with Intel CPU's more so to do with the 13th gen and 14th gen. This among other potential issues is why I went with a AMD Ryzen CPU in my new computer.
Thanks.
No worries, here is what the issue was and explains it better than I can. https://www.tomshardware.com/pc-components/cpus/intel-issues-statement-about-cpu-crashes-blames-motherboard-makers and https://www.techspot.com/review/2836-intel-cpu-crash-baseline-spec/ The issue was seen as being very bad, although Intel did eventually come clean and issue a fix to all the mainboard manufacturers with BIOS updates. In the end the problem should not have been there in the first place, which is a right pain as have been using Intel based systems for years.
Also so as to not add confusion I did change my original post as I did see what I had written.
Looks good. I tried to use all your suggestions and went with the AMD. No idea which AMD I need so I looked online and found this one wassupposed to be about equal to the Intell. A.so had to guess at the mother board. I think the rest followed your suggestions. I wanted a DVD but only one brand supports it. Will have to go extenal. Also, I don't think I mentioned but my biudget is faily flexible if there is something that was left off only for cost. And I noticed that almost all your selections have no RGB. That is good. Just a thing to attract the cats.
Thank you for all your time and patience.
...was that the Ryzen9 7900X3D? Attached is an AMD vesion I worked up just for fun but didn't post.
No problem, I can't let a couple years of research and learning go to waste just because I don't have the funds to upgrade my system (on a fixed pension).
The update is pretty much last generation (AM4). I picked up an EVGA RTX 3060 12 GB a couple years ago only to discover it isn't supported by my old MB's BIOS so it's just sitting in the box waiting..
I already have the case (as mentioned) and will be keeping the same Daz Content and storage drives as well as the PSU I currently have
The motherboard does have PCIe 4.0 x16 slots so I can upgrade to a 4060 TI 16 when I can afford it.
Specifications attached as well.
Why the white case not the black?