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Decimator worked only once??

RobertDyRobertDy Posts: 269
in Technical Help (nuts n bolts)
I bought decimator and in the first time I used it, I just decimated a figure, saved it as a scene subset, and when I reopened that scene subset, the decimated figures would remain decimated. In the second time which is now, whenever I do the same and reopen the scene, the decimated figure goes back to its original undecimated state. After some googling the general consensus is that daz can't save decimated figures and the decimated meshes must be exported as obj and all, but if that's the case then how did I get it working in the first try without doing any of all that??

Comments

  • Richard HaseltineRichard Haseltine Posts: 101,463

    Was it the same figure both times?

  • crosswindcrosswind Posts: 7,280

    Many folks have ever experimented such a thing a lot ~~ Nope... you have no way to save LoD in any DUF format of user-facing files... dbl-check it.

    If you could find LoD in Resolution Level property after loading the saved scene sub-set, that would be a miracle. Or if you open Scene Sub-set duf file with notepad++, you'll find no data related to LoD.

    https://www.daz3d.com/forums/discussion/comment/8735196/#Comment_8735196

     

  • jjoynerjjoyner Posts: 623

    Jay Versluis made two videos on using Decimator.  In one of them, he discusses the fact that Daz Studio cannot save the level of detail created by Decimator.  The levels of detail can be exported, though, and them imported later as needed.

  • RobertDyRobertDy Posts: 269
    jjoyner said:

    Jay Versluis made two videos on using Decimator.  In one of them, he discusses the fact that Daz Studio cannot save the level of detail created by Decimator.  The levels of detail can be exported, though, and them imported later as needed.

    Thanks everyone for your replies. Crosswind is correct, there's no way it can be saved, jjoyner - I tried exporting as obj and then adding LOD using the obj, but whenever I apply the LOD, the figure just vanishes. What would the correct export import way be? Richard - yes, the same figures.
  • Richard HaseltineRichard Haseltine Posts: 101,463

    Export at base resolution, with no addons or grafts.

  • jjoynerjjoyner Posts: 623

    RobertDy said:

    jjoyner said:

    Jay Versluis made two videos on using Decimator.  In one of them, he discusses the fact that Daz Studio cannot save the level of detail created by Decimator.  The levels of detail can be exported, though, and them imported later as needed.

    Thanks everyone for your replies. Crosswind is correct, there's no way it can be saved, jjoyner - I tried exporting as obj and then adding LOD using the obj, but whenever I apply the LOD, the figure just vanishes. What would the correct export import way be? Richard - yes, the same figures.

    I’m no expert with Decimator having only purchased it in May when it was more than 80% off.  I just tried the process that Jay demonstrates in his video and it worked for me with no problems.

    • I loaded Greylien HD for G8M and Decimated it to 50% resolution; see first image with Decimated LOD named Alien - 50%.
       
    • I exported the reduced LOD as an OBJ file as Jay demonstrated.
       
    • I opened a new scene, again loaded Greylien HD for G8M and imported the reduced LOD by naming it Alien Half Res so that it stood out with a different name; see second image.
    Alien - Decimated to 50%.jpg
    1682 x 1040 - 282K
    Alien - 50% LOD imported as Alien Half Res.jpg
    1682 x 1040 - 252K
  • crosswindcrosswind Posts: 7,280
    edited July 7

    jjoyner said:

    RobertDy said:

    jjoyner said:

    Jay Versluis made two videos on using Decimator.  In one of them, he discusses the fact that Daz Studio cannot save the level of detail created by Decimator.  The levels of detail can be exported, though, and them imported later as needed.

    Thanks everyone for your replies. Crosswind is correct, there's no way it can be saved, jjoyner - I tried exporting as obj and then adding LOD using the obj, but whenever I apply the LOD, the figure just vanishes. What would the correct export import way be? Richard - yes, the same figures.

    I’m no expert with Decimator having only purchased it in May when it was more than 80% off.  I just tried the process that Jay demonstrates in his video and it worked for me with no problems.

    • I loaded Greylien HD for G8M and Decimated it to 50% resolution; see first image with Decimated LOD named Alien - 50%.
       
    • I exported the reduced LOD as an OBJ file as Jay demonstrated.
       
    • I opened a new scene, again loaded Greylien HD for G8M and imported the reduced LOD by naming it Alien Half Res so that it stood out with a different name; see second image.

    Nope... it doesn't work as I mentioned in your post last time...and Jay never demonstrated the function but just mentioned it...

    You only imported LoD OBJ but didn't really choose it. If you did choose "Alien Half Res" from Resolution Level dropdown list, the figure would vanish... just as RobertDy said. You can find there's zero Face from its geometry statistics.

    We tried this function with decimated OBJ for times in various ways... it never works. The only way to use a Decimated figure in DS and make it savable is to purely import OBJ file, rig it with a specific way, supplement corrective morphs on it... then save a Figure asset.. etc. https://www.daz3d.com/forums/discussion/comment/8734511/#Comment_8734511

    SNAG-2024-7-8-005.png
    2560 x 1392 - 335K
    Post edited by crosswind on
  • jjoynerjjoyner Posts: 623

    crosswind said:

    Nope... it doesn't work as I mentioned in your post last time...and Jay never demonstrated the function but just mentioned it...

    You only imported LoD OBJ but didn't really choose it. If you did choose "Alien Half Res" from Resolution Level dropdown list, the figure would vanish... just as RobertDy said. You can find there's zero Face from its geometry statistics.

    We tried this function with decimated OBJ for times in various ways... it never works. The only way to use a Decimated figure in DS and make it savable is to purely import OBJ file, rig it with a specific way, supplement corrective morphs on it... then save a Figure asset.. etc. https://www.daz3d.com/forums/discussion/comment/8734511/#Comment_8734511

     You are correct.  I had not applied the the decimated OBJ before and the figure does disappear when the decimated LOD is applied.  I'll ask Jay in his Pateron channel.

  • crosswindcrosswind Posts: 7,280

    jjoyner said:

    crosswind said:

    Nope... it doesn't work as I mentioned in your post last time...and Jay never demonstrated the function but just mentioned it...

    You only imported LoD OBJ but didn't really choose it. If you did choose "Alien Half Res" from Resolution Level dropdown list, the figure would vanish... just as RobertDy said. You can find there's zero Face from its geometry statistics.

    We tried this function with decimated OBJ for times in various ways... it never works. The only way to use a Decimated figure in DS and make it savable is to purely import OBJ file, rig it with a specific way, supplement corrective morphs on it... then save a Figure asset.. etc. https://www.daz3d.com/forums/discussion/comment/8734511/#Comment_8734511

     You are correct.  I had not applied the the decimated OBJ before and the figure does disappear when the decimated LOD is applied.  I'll ask Jay in his Pateron channel.

    And we may ask Daz at the same time... maybe there's a secret setting we all don't know.cool

  • Richard HaseltineRichard Haseltine Posts: 101,463

    crosswind said:

    jjoyner said:

    RobertDy said:

    jjoyner said:

    Jay Versluis made two videos on using Decimator.  In one of them, he discusses the fact that Daz Studio cannot save the level of detail created by Decimator.  The levels of detail can be exported, though, and them imported later as needed.

    Thanks everyone for your replies. Crosswind is correct, there's no way it can be saved, jjoyner - I tried exporting as obj and then adding LOD using the obj, but whenever I apply the LOD, the figure just vanishes. What would the correct export import way be? Richard - yes, the same figures.

    I’m no expert with Decimator having only purchased it in May when it was more than 80% off.  I just tried the process that Jay demonstrates in his video and it worked for me with no problems.

    • I loaded Greylien HD for G8M and Decimated it to 50% resolution; see first image with Decimated LOD named Alien - 50%.
       
    • I exported the reduced LOD as an OBJ file as Jay demonstrated.
       
    • I opened a new scene, again loaded Greylien HD for G8M and imported the reduced LOD by naming it Alien Half Res so that it stood out with a different name; see second image.

    Nope... it doesn't work as I mentioned in your post last time...and Jay never demonstrated the function but just mentioned it...

    You only imported LoD OBJ but didn't really choose it. If you did choose "Alien Half Res" from Resolution Level dropdown list, the figure would vanish... just as RobertDy said. You can find there's zero Face from its geometry statistics.

    We tried this function with decimated OBJ for times in various ways... it never works. The only way to use a Decimated figure in DS and make it savable is to purely import OBJ file, rig it with a specific way, supplement corrective morphs on it... then save a Figure asset.. etc. https://www.daz3d.com/forums/discussion/comment/8734511/#Comment_8734511

    LoDs do, as far as I know, work - and can be created by scripts, so a Post-Load Script in a preset could make them addable from the content pane, or they could be added to a utility proeprty like the ones in Genesis 9. Not that I have tried either of these.

  • crosswindcrosswind Posts: 7,280

    Richard Haseltine said:

    crosswind said:

    jjoyner said:

    RobertDy said:

    jjoyner said:

    Jay Versluis made two videos on using Decimator.  In one of them, he discusses the fact that Daz Studio cannot save the level of detail created by Decimator.  The levels of detail can be exported, though, and them imported later as needed.

    Thanks everyone for your replies. Crosswind is correct, there's no way it can be saved, jjoyner - I tried exporting as obj and then adding LOD using the obj, but whenever I apply the LOD, the figure just vanishes. What would the correct export import way be? Richard - yes, the same figures.

    I’m no expert with Decimator having only purchased it in May when it was more than 80% off.  I just tried the process that Jay demonstrates in his video and it worked for me with no problems.

    • I loaded Greylien HD for G8M and Decimated it to 50% resolution; see first image with Decimated LOD named Alien - 50%.
       
    • I exported the reduced LOD as an OBJ file as Jay demonstrated.
       
    • I opened a new scene, again loaded Greylien HD for G8M and imported the reduced LOD by naming it Alien Half Res so that it stood out with a different name; see second image.

    Nope... it doesn't work as I mentioned in your post last time...and Jay never demonstrated the function but just mentioned it...

    You only imported LoD OBJ but didn't really choose it. If you did choose "Alien Half Res" from Resolution Level dropdown list, the figure would vanish... just as RobertDy said. You can find there's zero Face from its geometry statistics.

    We tried this function with decimated OBJ for times in various ways... it never works. The only way to use a Decimated figure in DS and make it savable is to purely import OBJ file, rig it with a specific way, supplement corrective morphs on it... then save a Figure asset.. etc. https://www.daz3d.com/forums/discussion/comment/8734511/#Comment_8734511

    LoDs do, as far as I know, work - and can be created by scripts, so a Post-Load Script in a preset could make them addable from the content pane, or they could be added to a utility proeprty like the ones in Genesis 9. Not that I have tried either of these.

    So the problem is how to make it really work .... especially with the OBJ generated by Decimator plugin. And to me, even if the LoD OBJ could be loaded into Resolution Level and shown with no issue, the result still cannot be saved into DSF / DUF files... then it'll be still useless at the end of the day...

  • Richard HaseltineRichard Haseltine Posts: 101,463

    The same feature is used in various ways in Genesis 9 to enable features that ould not otherwise be possible, e.g. the loadign of lashes and brows via presets or the utility tools group in Parameters. It can also be used to ensure that a non-animated proerpty, such as asurface setting, can be linked to an animatable node property. Enabling LoD is just one of the things it can be used for.

  • jjoynerjjoyner Posts: 623

    crosswind said:

    So the problem is how to make it really work .... especially with the OBJ generated by Decimator plugin. And to me, even if the LoD OBJ could be loaded into Resolution Level and shown with no issue, the result still cannot be saved into DSF / DUF files... then it'll be still useless at the end of the day...

    So many forums … so little memory.   :(   It turns out that I had this conversation with Jay in Patreon in May and with you and others in May also in the Decimator for Daz Studio forum thread (https://www.daz3d.com/forums/discussion/comment/8734986#Comment_8734986).  Jay had replied to me in Patreon saying:

    • I don't think you're doing anything wrong, I get the same behaviour. I have a feeling Decimator has a bug and no longer works as it once did. I remember the Victoria 4 figure came with a series of LODs that could be loaded with a script and Daz Studio would pick a LOD depending on far away from the camera the figure was - but of course that's all been close to 20 years ago, and I have a feeling the code hasn't been amended since. While it still works for decimations, the actual LOD functionality inside of Daz Studio seems to have broken.

    In my last post in the Decimator for Daz Studio thread, I stated:

    • So, I loaded the G8M Grelien Greylien HD alien (more than 1 million quad faces) that I bought last night, Decimated it, and saved the decimated version (16K quad faces) as a Character preset.  I can load the decimated G8M Grelien Greylien HD alien now when desired.
  • crosswindcrosswind Posts: 7,280
    edited July 8

    jjoyner said:

    crosswind said:

    So the problem is how to make it really work .... especially with the OBJ generated by Decimator plugin. And to me, even if the LoD OBJ could be loaded into Resolution Level and shown with no issue, the result still cannot be saved into DSF / DUF files... then it'll be still useless at the end of the day...

    So many forums … so little memory.   :(   It turns out that I had this conversation with Jay in Patreon in May and with you and others in May also in the Decimator for Daz Studio forum thread (https://www.daz3d.com/forums/discussion/comment/8734986#Comment_8734986).  Jay had replied to me in Patreon saying:

    • I don't think you're doing anything wrong, I get the same behaviour. I have a feeling Decimator has a bug and no longer works as it once did. I remember the Victoria 4 figure came with a series of LODs that could be loaded with a script and Daz Studio would pick a LOD depending on far away from the camera the figure was - but of course that's all been close to 20 years ago, and I have a feeling the code hasn't been amended since. While it still works for decimations, the actual LOD functionality inside of Daz Studio seems to have broken.

    In my last post in the Decimator for Daz Studio thread, I stated:

    • So, I loaded the G8M Grelien Greylien HD alien (more than 1 million quad faces) that I bought last night, Decimated it, and saved the decimated version (16K quad faces) as a Character preset.  I can load the decimated G8M Grelien Greylien HD alien now when desired.

    Okay, same result from Jay... as we had... but I don't think any post load will work for this case. And I also responded to your last point: the Character Preset was just saved with Base Resolution rather than any LoD...

    Anyway, I'll submit a ticket to see what will happen...cool

    Post edited by crosswind on
  • Richard HaseltineRichard Haseltine Posts: 101,463

    The LoD used for an item is determined by the settings, which can include the distance from the camera, but that isn't set up automatically.

    The old .daz scene format did save LoD set up, but the current .duf does not (hence needing to reset them, manually via the UI or through a script).

  • RobertDyRobertDy Posts: 269

    Richard Haseltine said:

    The LoD used for an item is determined by the settings, which can include the distance from the camera, but that isn't set up automatically.

    The old .daz scene format did save LoD set up, but the current .duf does not (hence needing to reset them, manually via the UI or through a script).

    How do we reset the settings to allow LOD to be saved in the current daz versions?

  • Richard HaseltineRichard Haseltine Posts: 101,463

    RobertDy said:

    Richard Haseltine said:

    The LoD used for an item is determined by the settings, which can include the distance from the camera, but that isn't set up automatically.

    The old .daz scene format did save LoD set up, but the current .duf does not (hence needing to reset them, manually via the UI or through a script).

    How do we reset the settings to allow LOD to be saved in the current daz versions?

    The current scene format doesn't support LoD, there is nothing to be done about that. For using a postLoad script as a workaround, these samples cover the general methods but not aplied to LoDs http://docs.daz3d.com/doku.php/public/software/dazstudio/4/referenceguide/scripting/api_reference/samples/start#elements

  • RobertDyRobertDy Posts: 269

    Richard Haseltine said:

    RobertDy said:

    Richard Haseltine said:

    The LoD used for an item is determined by the settings, which can include the distance from the camera, but that isn't set up automatically.

    The old .daz scene format did save LoD set up, but the current .duf does not (hence needing to reset them, manually via the UI or through a script).

    How do we reset the settings to allow LOD to be saved in the current daz versions?

    The current scene format doesn't support LoD, there is nothing to be done about that. For using a postLoad script as a workaround, these samples cover the general methods but not aplied to LoDs http://docs.daz3d.com/doku.php/public/software/dazstudio/4/referenceguide/scripting/api_reference/samples/start#elements

    Then that effectively renders the decimator useless. I'm going to ask for a refund.

  • Richard HaseltineRichard Haseltine Posts: 101,463

    RobertDy said:

    Richard Haseltine said:

    RobertDy said:

    Richard Haseltine said:

    The LoD used for an item is determined by the settings, which can include the distance from the camera, but that isn't set up automatically.

    The old .daz scene format did save LoD set up, but the current .duf does not (hence needing to reset them, manually via the UI or through a script).

    How do we reset the settings to allow LOD to be saved in the current daz versions?

    The current scene format doesn't support LoD, there is nothing to be done about that. For using a postLoad script as a workaround, these samples cover the general methods but not aplied to LoDs http://docs.daz3d.com/doku.php/public/software/dazstudio/4/referenceguide/scripting/api_reference/samples/start#elements

    Then that effectively renders the decimator useless. I'm going to ask for a refund.

    The decimator is for decimating, using it to make LoDs is not its onl;y potential purpose. Of coruse if it is your sole or principle aim then getting a refund is sensible, I am just objecting to the blanked "useless" rather than "useless for me".

  • barbultbarbult Posts: 24,393
    edited July 18

    It is not useless for me. I am autofitting clothing to LowPi and decimating the clothing. Then I create the LOD, export it as OBJ, rig it to LowPi, and save it as a new asset for use in LowPi wearkits. The usefulness of Decimator depends on your goals, as Richard said.

    Post edited by barbult on
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