Compatibility filter for Omni Shader, dForce etc.

HighElf

We all have a lot of hairstyles, some are dForce, some are SBH and others are just wild cards.

Thanks to the lack of proper naming conventions around all the products, it would be nice to have a property filter built in DAZ or the store, preferably both. Where someone could search for compatible products within the library and the store. I currently have trouble finding out which of my purchases is usable with Omni-Shader, and the whole search process eats more into my hobby time than necessary.

Gordig

Daz didn't do us or themselves any favors by using the term "dForce hair". There are three main types of hair in 3D:

Polygonal hair uses strips of polygons to represent different sections of hair, with opacity maps making the strips look like they're made up of individual strands. It is possible to apply dForce to that and simulate it like cloth, and such hair might be called dForce hair or hair "with dForce", and will typically list dForce Cloth in the compatible software, but not dForce hair. PAs like Linday and FESoul make a lot of hair this way.

Fibermesh hair is made up of individual mesh tubes/cones to represent individual hairs. Due to the high mesh density, and the limitations of the dForce cloth engine, it's not advisable to simulate fibermesh, though it is theoretically possible.

Strand-based hair uses curves/splines to represent either individual hairs or groups of hairs, and have no actual geometry until render time. Most of what is called dForce hair in the Daz store is SBH, though not all SBH is necessarily dForce hair. Toyen, for example, makes a lot of SBH hairs that are not intended to be simulated, and since only PAs have the ability to add dForce modifiers to SBH, if a Toyen hair isn't already set up for dForce (I can't speak to which or how many are or are not), then there's nothing you can do about it. You can also create your own SBH using DS's built-in SBH editor, but again, you can't apply dForce to it unless you are a PA and have the appropriate toolkit. SBH hair that is also dForce will typically (but not always) list dForce Hair in the compatible engines.

Long story short, the naming conventions are inconsistent and leave room for ambiguity, but there are ways to tell. For me, the biggest tell is whether a hair looks transmapped, which is subjective, but hairs that are compatible with OmniHair can be assumed to be SBH. I don't know if OmniHair is compatible with fibermesh as well, but similar shaders can be used with fibermesh in other programs. Fibermesh is the minority in the Daz store, though.

HighElf

Fibermesh is a mixed bag when it comes to Omni, imo. On some products, it looks awesome on others it is meh at best. That is why I would love a descriptor of some kind, whether Omni works. It is the reason why I will pass on the fantasy bundle, By the pictures I can only guess that it won't work, so I rather keep my wallet shut. With dForce it is pretty much the same, yes vendors say that dForce will work, and the moment I use a pose that is not upright and with only slight head tilts, BOOM mesh explosion. That is not, what I consider dForce compatible. I want the full range, overhead wheels, flips and jumping moves included. And this is not only with hair, dForce for clothing has similar issues for a lot of products that claim to be dForce in their names as well.

FSMCDesigns

HighElf said:

Fibermesh is a mixed bag when it comes to Omni, imo. On some products, it looks awesome on others it is meh at best. That is why I would love a descriptor of some kind, whether Omni works. It is the reason why I will pass on the fantasy bundle, By the pictures I can only guess that it won't work, so I rather keep my wallet shut. With dForce it is pretty much the same, yes vendors say that dForce will work, and the moment I use a pose that is not upright and with only slight head tilts, BOOM mesh explosion. That is not, what I consider dForce compatible. I want the full range, overhead wheels, flips and jumping moves included. And this is not only with hair, dForce for clothing has similar issues for a lot of products that claim to be dForce in their names as well.

You neecd to learn how to use dforce. I use it all the time and rarely have it explode. The biggest cause is it intersecting with another mesh before and then during simulation.

If I am not mistaken, Omni shaders are only supposed to be used with strand based hair, not fibermesh.

lilweep

HighElf said:

Fibermesh is a mixed bag when it comes to Omni, imo. On some products, it looks awesome on others it is meh at best. That is why I would love a descriptor of some kind, whether Omni works. It is the reason why I will pass on the fantasy bundle, By the pictures I can only guess that it won't work, so I rather keep my wallet shut. With dForce it is pretty much the same, yes vendors say that dForce will work, and the moment I use a pose that is not upright and with only slight head tilts, BOOM mesh explosion. That is not, what I consider dForce compatible. I want the full range, overhead wheels, flips and jumping moves included. And this is not only with hair, dForce for clothing has similar issues for a lot of products that claim to be dForce in their names as well.

 Have you considered maybe the issue is with dForce itself and how you are using it?  dForce is very fragile and cant tolerate much self-intersection.  Other simulation systems are much better at this than dForce.The issues with dForce you experience are likely not the fault of the vendors.

Omnihair is just a shader. Any shader can be applied to any surface. Omnihair was made for curves, but can be used on other surfaces too technically.  

As to having better filters on the store, i dont disagree with that.  Having sensible subcategories would be ideal, like gordig suggested.From those categories, you would be able to infer what works with what.

Having user reviews and questions might also be good to gauge if something is easy to use product or not.

crosswind

Omni can be used on fibermesh hairs... actually Omni can be used on any non-transmapped hairs ~

HighElf

As much as I appreciate your help with my dForce issues, they don't contribute to the suggestion, that we need better ways to filter for products in our library. Testing dozens if not even more products for a specific property promoted and marketed as a feature within the DAZ store is a hassle. 

crosswind

Actually there might be only two ways to improve these at current stage:

1) Daz revisits and enhances product naming convention... or add sub-categories / Tags in metadata to differentiate all these sub Hair types (maybe as well as compatibilities to shaders or any add-ons). Well, I personally don't think Daz is willing to do these ~~

2 ) Each time one buys a product, he/she add sub-category or Tags (key words) for easy filtering and differentiation.

lilweep

HighElf said:

As much as I appreciate your help with my dForce issues, they don't contribute to the suggestion, that we need better ways to filter for products in our library. Testing dozens if not even more products for a specific property promoted and marketed as a feature within the DAZ store is a hassle. 

youre the one who brought it up